match thread *official lappinitup match thread skyblues v canaries*

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

No, but then fans would have been sitting down disinterested for the first two goals and grumbling over the conceded goals if Smith had been in charge.

🤦‍♀️

[littleyellowbirdie 2,507]

2 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

This is night and day compared to that shoite under Smith.

 

It wasn't **** though. It was let down by individual mistakes here and there like the ones we saw today and had us top of the league with some of the most goals scored in the league.

Wagner's great, and he's an upgrade, but Smith wasn't bad.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Can't wait for Bristol now.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

Get in lads! 
 

Wonder where we might be if Webber made the change before the WC break. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

It wasn't **** though. It was let down by individual mistakes here and there like the ones we saw today and had us top of the league with some of the most goals scored in the league.

Wagner's great, and he's an upgrade, but Smith wasn't bad.

I think you are in a minority of one there. 10 out of 10 for sticking with it though.

[Monty13 2,229]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It wasn't **** though. It was let down by individual mistakes here and there like the ones we saw today and had us top of the league with some of the most goals scored in the league.

Wagner's great, and he's an upgrade, but Smith wasn't bad.

It’s night and day, I was an advocate for giving him time but what Wagner is achieving so quickly just proves Smith failed. He may not be a bad coach, but he was not the right manager for us.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,507]

Just now, keelansgrandad said:

I think you are in a minority of one there. 10 out of 10 for sticking with it though.

Don't care. I'm right.

We had games like that earlier in the season where if the fans had been more positive when we conceded then the team might have drew some confidence from it.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think you are in a minority of one there. 10 out of 10 for sticking with it though.

He's too far up that alley to turn round now without eating serious humble pie, i dont think his ego would allow it. 

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

Smith was awful ..... he had nothing to offer City. 

Wagner is showing just where we might be.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Don't care. I'm right.

We had games like that earlier in the season where if the fans had been more positive when we conceded then the team might have drew some confidence from it.

See! 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,507]

4 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

It’s night and day, I was an advocate for giving him time but what Wagner is achieving so quickly just proves Smith failed. He may not be a bad coach, but he was not the right manager for us.

Someone else pointed out a lot of the players knew what to expect of Wagner because his philosophy is so very similar to Farke.

I agree this is great and Wagner is clearly brilliant, but this doesn't support any of the arguments that even Chris Hughton could have done better; we saw plenty of evidence of the individual errors that Smith was beaten over the head with today to argue we were in a 'false position' when we were doing well.

Edited January 21, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[hogesar 9,615]

7 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It wasn't **** though. It was let down by individual mistakes here and there like the ones we saw today and had us top of the league with some of the most goals scored in the league.

Wagner's great, and he's an upgrade, but Smith wasn't bad.

I'm sorry but the football really isn't comparable. Even in our best 20 minute rare spells under Farke we never got those numbers of attacking players close enough to create those passing triangles around the opponents area.

We've created more chances in 2 games than perhaps 10 under Smith.

[TheGunnShow 5,925]

Smith had a thankless task after an incredibly popular manager in Farke so I do think he'll always be rated a little worse than he was here, and by the same token, some may rate the successor a bit too high in response.

At the same time, we've only had two league games and a slightly unfortunate cup defeat to go off. The tendency does look upward, but the sample size is still bloody small.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,507]

Just now, hogesar said:

I'm sorry but the football really isn't comparable. Even in our best 20 minute rare spells under Farke we never got those numbers of attacking players close enough to create those passing triangles around the opponents area.

We've created more chances in 2 games than perhaps 10 under Smith.

I'm not arguing it is. All I'm arguing is that there's a lot of bad-mouthing of Smith that isn't justified. And it won't take more than a few bad results for Wagner to be bad-mouthed the same way, just like Smith and just like Farke.

We've got the right outcome, but we've got it for the wrong reasons.

[Canario 203]

11 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It wasn't **** though. It was let down by individual mistakes here and there like the ones we saw today and had us top of the league with some of the most goals scored in the league.

Wagner's great, and he's an upgrade, but Smith wasn't bad.

It's chalk and cheese, night and day, dull brummie and jntelligent German. 

 

[hogesar 9,615]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I'm not arguing it is. All I'm arguing is that there's a lot of bad-mouthing of Smith that isn't justified. And it won't take more than a few bad results for Wagner to be bad-mouthed the same way, just like Smith and just like Farke.

We've got the right outcome, but we've got it for the wrong reasons.

What are the wrong reasons? I was willing to give Smith the World Cup break to transform us from our awful form. He had plenty of time. Wagner only needed a week to completely transform the way we play. And it wasn't complicated. Just get us on the front foot, play full backs as high as possible and pick a midfielder to sit in and cover those spaces.

Nunez looked more comfortable in his cameo today than his last 10 under Smith. I dont think Smith is a dreadful manager but the evidence is stacking up that he was dreadfully underperforming here.

[hogesar 9,615]

8 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Smith had a thankless task after an incredibly popular manager in Farke so I do think he'll always be rated a little worse than he was here, and by the same token, some may rate the successor a bit too high in response.

At the same time, we've only had two league games and a slightly unfortunate cup defeat to go off. The tendency does look upward, but the sample size is still bloody small.

When you score 8 in 2 games as opposed to 6 in 8 games.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

2 weeks now for Wagner to further work with the players and hopefully rid any lingering rot Smith and Skakespeare left ,get some injured players back and to also possibly work in the transfer market..a couple out and a couple in would be nice

[littleyellowbirdie 2,507]

Just now, hogesar said:

What are the wrong reasons? I was willing to give Smith the World Cup break to transform us from our awful form. He had plenty of time. Wagner only needed a week to completely transform the way we play. And it wasn't complicated. Just get us on the front foot, play full backs as high as possible and pick a midfielder to sit in and cover those spaces.

Nunez looked more comfortable in his cameo today than his last 10 under Smith. I dont think Smith is a dreadful manager but the evidence is stacking up that he was dreadfully underperforming here.

The simple fact that support of the squad was poor in spite of good results. That had to have hurt the squad and morale.

The fans are now enthusiastic, the players are buzzing, but the basic mistakes we suffered under Smith are all still there, it's just the mood doesn't immediately turn to impending doom when it happens and it shows in the way the players are reacting.

[TheGunnShow 5,925]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

When you score 8 in 2 games as opposed to 6 in 8 games.

Hence why I said the tendency is upward, but the sample size is small.

[Mello Yello 2,277]

3-0 up and I was in raptures....then we conceded 2 goals and I got the heebie jeebies....But, we are looking an all round much improved side....Respect to Coventry regarding their applause for Amber's Army....I did get some dust in my eye during the full-time team celebrations in front of the away support and the handing over of the Amber football shirt...That's what a football club is all about....Emotional...

[Newtopia 517]

I do not want to be personal, the difference as managers between Smith and Wagner is huge.  We have a plan.  The manager has made the unpopular decision for the benefit of the team (Krul v Gunn - I strongly disagree but he has made that decision), we have played a similiar style in both games, and critically he started the same team in successive games.  I expect McCalum will play ahead of Gianoulis in the next game, but that is down to performance not tinkering.

We will not continue winning scoring 4 goals a game between now and end of the season.  At that point the pressure will grow, and we will have to see how he copes with that.

His comment this week about Pukki’s contract position explained why Smith was making the decisions he did up front, much better than Smith ever did.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Newtopia

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

23 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It wasn't **** though. It was let down by individual mistakes here and there like the ones we saw today and had us top of the league with some of the most goals scored in the league.

Wagner's great, and he's an upgrade, but Smith wasn't bad.

Smith was bloody awful here. Not a bad coach but never got to grips with the job or the squad. 

We already look fitter, faster, more determined in 3 weeks with Wagner than Smiths entire time.

[ron obvious 1,498]

We're playing on the edge. We're walking the tightrope between order & chaos; it's where the most exciting things happen, & can lead to glorious victory or awful defeat.

It's thrilling. It's exciting. It can drive you to drink. But it's never boring.

Jordan Peterson has a good description of why it's so addictive

 

[Surfer 1,547]

Well maybe the fact the fans were apathetic under Smith is he played football that bored the pants off everyone. Taking over 2500 to Coventry today shows the fans were always behind the team, we just ask to see “our team,  playing our way” on the pitch. 
 

I was one of those who said we were in trouble earlier in the season even when we were winning. I was right as were those who said similar things - because it was obvious. 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Surfer

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,131]

Kinda goes under the radar a bit because the public perception of Wagner has lessened in the last few years but it's easy to forget that he's a very highly rated manager still and is a bit of a coup for us. He's proven in this league, kept a team with no budget in the PL and has managed in the Champions League, he's not exactly a nobody and by all rights we should be expecting an upturn in performances and results under a coach of that caliber. 

[Indy 3,283]

38 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It wasn't **** though. It was let down by individual mistakes here and there like the ones we saw today and had us top of the league with some of the most goals scored in the league.

Wagner's great, and he's an upgrade, but Smith wasn't bad.

Oh dear! He was our worst manager in 27 years, his stats bare that out! Just move on!

Edited January 21, 2023 by Indy

[littleyellowbirdie 2,507]

4 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

I do not want to be personal, the difference as managers between Smith and Wagner is huge.  We have a plan.  The manager has made the unpopular decision for the benefit of the team (Krul v Gunn - I strongly disagree but he has made that decision), we have played a similiar style in both games, and critically he started the same team in successive games.  I expect McCalum will play ahead of Gianoulis in the next game, but that is down to performance not tinkering.

We will not continue winning scoring 4 goals a game between now and end of the season.  At that point the pressure will grow, and we will have to see how he copes with that.

His comment this week about Pukki’s contract position explained why Smith was making the decisions he did up front, much better than Smith ever did.

Again, missing the point. Wagner looks to be perfect for us, but that doesn't mean Smith was ever bad for us, or wasn't the best one available for us at the time he was appointed. 

Our play looks more ambitious under Wagner and the players are clearly buzzing, but let's remember there's a positive vibes towards them that just weren't there as a consequence of people refusing to stop obsessing about Smith.  Those individual errors that caused so much uproar about Smith were all there today, but covered up by finishing with the right outcome.

We're having the famed managerial bounce now because all the bad vibes created by the obsession with Smith have gone with him. But it's inevitable that there are going to be rough patches down the line. The question is, will fans keep supporting these players or will they demand another round of sack the manager and pick a random unemployed one? 

The flip side of this is that in a parallel universe where fans hadn't just decided they wanted rid of Smith come what may, then maybe we'd have been doing better than we had been,  Smith would never have been sacked, Wagner would never have come and we'd have never seen the awesome games we've had the last two games.

Anyway, hope the support for Wagner continues.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,507]

1 minute ago, Indy said:

Oh dear! He was our worst manager in 27 years, his stats bare that out! Just move on!

Tell that to the people who keep talking about Smith that I'm answering. I enjoy a debate is all. Happy to stop talking about Smith if people stop raising it.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Again, missing the point. Wagner looks to be perfect for us, but that doesn't mean Smith was ever bad for us, or wasn't the best one available for us at the time he was appointed. 

Our play looks more ambitious under Wagner and the players are clearly buzzing, but let's remember there's a positive vibes towards them that just weren't there as a consequence of people refusing to stop obsessing about Smith.  Those individual errors that caused so much uproar about Smith were all there today, but covered up by finishing with the right outcome.

We're having the famed managerial bounce now because all the bad vibes created by the obsession with Smith have gone with him. But it's inevitable that there are going to be rough patches down the line. The question is, will fans keep supporting these players or will they demand another round of sack the manager and pick a random unemployed one? 

The flip side of this is that in a parallel universe where fans hadn't just decided they wanted rid of Smith come what may, then maybe we'd have been doing better than we had been,  Smith would never have been sacked, Wagner would never have come and we'd have never seen the awesome games we've had the last two games.

Anyway, hope the support for Wagner continues.

 

We're 20 pts off Burnley and 15 off Sheff Utd.....thats how 'bad' Smith was for us