Is immediate promotion a priority for supporters this season

[KeiranShikari 1,410]

I think bad transfers more than the model itself got us relegated. Teams have stayed up on less. 

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

22 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Nowhere near as tedious as your pathetic bating of an elderly woman who has proved her commitment to the club time and again. Very convenient to forget she bailed the club out when it was facing dire financial strife. That she wrote a best selling cook book in order to donate all the proceeds to the club. That she could have invested her money elsewhere and made a bucket load of cash way beyond anything she might have gained from putting money into NCFC. That despite the abuse she receives from malignant people like you she continues to show love and loyalty to the club.

You didn't get it did you?

You know the expression tongue in cheek, I  take it?

I've respected Delia as much as every one.

Now we seem to be skint and on the slide, it seems her time is up.

It's the present and future that concerns me, Not the past

I do recall her saying long ago that she  resented buying NCFC because it has cost her so much. I knew perfectly well that she had reclaimed little.

I assumed she had funds over and above her shares, which she acquired cheaply though.

Edited January 8, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[shefcanary 2,389]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

Is Bailey still ITK or is he guessing? Does the press "stand-off" only apply to the Pink Un?

That's based on what Richens said in his video and what was reported in the Financial Statements. Of course this could be fluff from the club, but given loan repayments of £65m by the end of next season do you reasonably believe there is any cash left without player trading.

I go with that latter view, so until the window's player trading is complete and Wagner has some new players to work with, we won't get promoted with the current squad. However a successful window and I may change my mind ...

[TheBaldOne66 681]

Talented squad? Really? Which players would come under talented? Not many in truth! 
 

Too many fans on here believe the hype that was shouted at the beginning of the season, we have few players who would be coveted by any bigger team, even Aarons is past his best now as he’s regressed so much over the last couple of seasons. 
 

We have a squad full of journeymen if truth be told, Krul, Pukki, Hanley, all past their best but people still bang on and think the squad is better than it really is!

There are very few players who will command a fee now of any decent amount, maybe Omo but can’t think of anyone else, so it’s time people woke up and realised it’s an average mid table squad, and they do say the table never lies! 

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

Now that's a bit of controversy to get your teeth into.

HeHe.

I'm not sure that it is very controversial to suggest that an owner should give money away to the club - it's a popular request throughout the the football world.

There is however, very little evidence that it has a transformative effect on clubs our size. At best it buys a few years, but more often not even that. 

 

[Mr Angry 1,547]

1. Yes, undoubtedly. Even if we come straight back down with a record low points scored (predicted by a few on here following both of our last two promotions but didn't happen), at the moment we need the money from the EPL. And if we are once again the laughing stock of fans from other clubs? Honestly, who gives a f*** about what other fans think.

2. Yes, depending on your definition of "reasonably". We are 3 points from the last play-off place and I see no reason why we shouldn't finish in the top 6-after that, anything can happen.

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Thought it was common knowledge that we'd taken out a huge loan against parachute payments and incoming transfer installments. Its been known for a while that parachute payments are all spent? 

Only hope is a player sale, but can't see who is going to fetch big money. Webber has f*cked it.

Lots of things that are "common knowledge" are not true - looking at our transfer dealings, I think it is quite likely but I have not heard any announcements. I know a lot of this stuff appears on the Companies House website but none of the press have referred to such a statement which they could easily have researched.

Perhaps one of the accountants on here can clarify the circumstances in which shareholders have to be informed + companies house declarations?

[Badger 2,405]

9 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

That's based on what Richens said in his video and what was reported in the Financial Statements. Of course this could be fluff from the club, but given loan repayments of £65m by the end of next season do you reasonably believe there is any cash left without player trading.

I go with that latter view, so until the window's player trading is complete and Wagner has some new players to work with, we won't get promoted with the current squad. However a successful window and I may change my mind ...

I can't imagine that there is any money to spend given last year's debt, the huge wage bill and this year's purchases, I think that I have said to you before that my biggest gripe about last year (apart from the football) was the overspend. 

However, I am not aware of any statement being made and wondered what the reporting requirements were. e.g. WBA have just have had to admit an MSD loan to cover costs, but I haven't seen any similar details from City. As an accountant, I'm pretty sure you will know the circumstances when these things have to be declared and reported to shareholders, but I don't.

[Badger 2,405]

10 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

1. Yes, undoubtedly. Even if we come straight back down with a record low points scored (predicted by a few on here following both of our last two promotions but didn't happen), at the moment we need the money from the EPL. And if we are once again the laughing stock of fans from other clubs? Honestly, who gives a f*** about what other fans think.

2. Yes, depending on your definition of "reasonably". We are 3 points from the last play-off place and I see no reason why we shouldn't finish in the top 6-after that, anything can happen.

The other wording that was difficult was expect.

I think that a playoff place is a reasonable expectation but this only secures a 25% (iro) chance of promotion.

[Mr Angry 1,547]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

The other wording that was difficult was expect.

I think that a playoff place is a reasonable expectation but this only secures a 25% (iro) chance of promotion.

True, but we do have a 50% record of promotion when we've reached the playoffs-although I appreciate that 2 is quite a small sample 😉

[horsefly 4,287]

47 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

You didn't get it did you?

You know the expression tongue in cheek, I  take it?

I've respected Delia as much as every one.

Now we seem to be skint and on the slide, it seems her time is up.

It's the present and future that concerns me, Not the past

I do recall her saying long ago that she  resented buying NCFC because it has cost her so much. I knew perfectly well that she had reclaimed little.

I assumed she had funds over and above her shares, which she acquired cheaply though.

Except tongue in cheek is not how you wrote the original post. You simply repeated the same sad old tropes trotted out on a regular intervals by those who hate Delia.

Also, not good with facts are you! The self funding model saw us promoted twice. So far from a model that can aspire to nothing more than "scraping around the Championship". As for your sad cheap digs at Delia, that's all they are. You can add them to the volumes of others, who like you have nothing constructive or worthwhile to add.

[shefcanary 2,389]

40 minutes ago, Badger said:

Lots of things that are "common knowledge" are not true - looking at our transfer dealings, I think it is quite likely but I have not heard any announcements. I know a lot of this stuff appears on the Companies House website but none of the press have referred to such a statement which they could easily have researched.

Perhaps one of the accountants on here can clarify the circumstances in which shareholders have to be informed + companies house declarations?

We have to go with public statements from Richens and what was clearly stated in the notes to the financial statements. The £65m of loans are secured against future media rights and have to be repaid in full by the end of July 2024. For future media rights read parachute payments given the timescale of repayments.

In layman's terms, the loans have been taken out against the two years parachute payments which will approximate to the £65m. None of us have access to the club's forecasts, including cashflows, but we have to take as true Richens statement in the video released at the time of the AGM that to make any future player purchases we have to sell someone from the current squad first.

So Badger, given all that evidence I'm struggling to see why you are suggesting we might have a transfer pot without having to sell players. Have you seen cashflow forecasts that go against the public statements from the club?

Edited January 8, 2023 by shefcanary

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

Except tongue in cheek is not how you wrote the original post. You simply repeated the same sad old tropes trotted out on a regular intervals by those who hate Delia.

Also, not good with facts are you! The self funding model saw us promoted twice. So far from a model that can aspire to nothing more than "scraping around the Championship". As for your sad cheap digs at Delia, that's all they are. You can add them to the volumes of others, who like you have nothing constructive or worthwhile to add.

Oh yes it was

I started to go off Delia the day I read the "take it or leave it" apeech about Tom. Many did.

Remind me when I have trotted out the 'same old tropes' please.I mighy have had an occasional dig, but not relularly, and that's because I think the club and suppporters deserve     better  than to  be  conrolled by an old lady with insufficiant funds to push the club forward if the chance arrives rather than two ignominiou PL relegations.

Rich Arabs etc, No, but at least an owner capable of some fuding if needed (the £5m expesive loan for example.)

I feel that she has held onto the club too lomg, that'all!

I was michief making,

Our rapid slide is demoralsing, we have no funds and are hoping that Waner at least can stem the tide.

 

Edited January 8, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[horsefly 4,287]

1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

Oh yes it was

I started to go off Delia the day I read the "take it or leave it" apeech about Tom. Many did.

Remind me when I have trotted out the 'same old tropes' please.I mighy have had an occasional dig, but not relularly, and that's because I think the club and suppporters deserve     better  than to  be  conrolled by an old lady with insufficiant funds to push the club forward if the chance arrives rather than two ignominiou PL relegations.

Rich Arabs etc, No, but at least an owner capable of some fuding if needed (the £5m expesive loan for example.)

I feel that she has held onto the club too lomg, that'all!

I was michief making,

Our rapid slide is demoralsing, we have no funds and are hoping that Waner at least can stem the tide.

 

Hahahahaha! You didn't get it did you!!!

[The Real Buh 3,423]

My expectations are much, much lower.

lers just get some players to actually care first, let’s not go mad

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

We are fighting relegation not pushing for promotion- worst run and slump in years. No signs of hope in team at all 

[mrD66M 99]

7 hours ago, Richard Richard said:

I'm sorry, it's a no and no for me although I'm praying that Wagner turns things round for us.

Sneaking promotion with this squad would ensure we're a laughing stock in the Prem yet again as we already know we won't/can't spend what's needed to be competitive there.

Priority has to be to steady the ship this season, give Wagner a chance to see who he likes and sees potential in and clear out the remaining dead wood.

Let's establish a playing style, starting first 11 and an identity. THEN we can entertain survival in the Prem.

I'm clearly in the minority but I just don't think the squad is as good as people make out.

Hope to be proved wrong!

OTBC

My thoughts exactly. +1

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

Hahahahaha! You didn't get it did you!!!

Hahaha didn't I?

Enforced with a few Tigers and put out by our rapd decline oj NCFC finance-wise and in leage status I decided to stir   thins up by being controverial. Now  I'm a Delia hater who regularly rails agisnt  her.

At least it gave you your daily oppportunityb to jump upn your high horse and lecture somebody in your  usual pompous  and enduring way.

Delia has, in part caused this mess. Perhaps hanging on and on for reaons of vanity, and I cannot accept that  just her city shareholdings which she bought cheaply and are now her net worth.

She apparently got paid millions for those pto-longed Waitrose adverts.

City FC and the suppoters deserve better.

Edited January 8, 2023 by BroadstairsR

[ged in the onion bag 854]

9 hours ago, Richard Richard said:

I'm sorry, it's a no and no for me although I'm praying that Wagner turns things round for us.

Sneaking promotion with this squad would ensure we're a laughing stock in the Prem yet again as we already know we won't/can't spend what's needed to be competitive there.

Priority has to be to steady the ship this season, give Wagner a chance to see who he likes and sees potential in and clear out the remaining dead wood.

Let's establish a playing style, starting first 11 and an identity. THEN we can entertain survival in the Prem.

I'm clearly in the minority but I just don't think the squad is as good as people make out.

Hope to be proved wrong!

OTBC

You may be in the minority but you are quite right!   100% right!
 

No one on this forum can offer any reasonable argument as to how a promotion will be beneficial long term!   All it will do is kick the can down the road a little further!   Allow this untenable situation to prolong!   Create another excruciating season for the fans to endure and general embarrassment in the wider footballing world!   
 

This squad needs a revamp, it’s tired, lacking drive, identity, creativity, quality, leadership, pace or power!    The idea of a promotion with this squad is pure fantasy!     
 

You won’t be proven wrong! 

Edited January 8, 2023 by ged in the onion bag

[Capt. Pants 4,202]

Failing to get promotion (probably) means Attanasio can offer less for D&M's shares, which means he has more to invest in the team. 

 

[Mengo 822]

9 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I thought we'd already borrowed against our parachute payments, thats been said before and would tally with MB said about our parachute payments already being accounted for in building this squad, so presumably our parachute payments are earmarked to be used to make loan repayments.

Ward and Webber are a f*cking disaster.

Answers to topic 1. Yes  2. Yes.

Answer to this one below.

Ward and Webber are a f*cking disaster.

YES and YES  . 

[ged in the onion bag 854]

28 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Failing to get promotion (probably) means Attanasio can offer less for D&M's shares, which means he has more to invest in the team. 

 

No, it doesn’t mean anything, Apart from, we don’t have a team ready for promotion. 

[Mengo 822]

7 hours ago, KeiranShikari said:

I think bad transfers more than the model itself got us relegated. Teams have stayed up on less. 

I think you are correct in that assumption. 😉 if only we were intelligent enough to understand who is possibly responsible for where we are. I bet persons or person responsible earn sh!t loads of money 💰 💰.  

[ged in the onion bag 854]

10 hours ago, CDMullins said:

If we don't go up and we lose the players we expect to lose, Krul, Max, Pukki, Todd, those expensive wingers out on loan then I don't see how we could expect to be competitive next season.

 

And if we do go up?   Will we keep them, and what use will they be to us?   Probably leaving regardless!    Be intrigued how a promotion will pan out, any ideas?

 

10 hours ago, CDMullins said:

Firstly we have a squad that the bulk of have won the Championship at a canter twice.

Those left would not have achieved promotion (likely not even the playoffs), without Buendia!   Not to mention a decent CDM like Skipp, a position we’ve failed to fill on a permanent employed basis for over 5 seasons now!   Add that they have now had two tortuous EPL experiences the will for another must be drained!   Don’t delude yourself, this squad isn’t very good!  

[CDMullins 436]

5 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

And if we do go up?   Will we keep them, and what use will they be to us?   Probably leaving regardless!    Be intrigued how a promotion will pan out, any ideas?

 

Those left would not have achieved promotion (likely not even the playoffs), without Buendia!   Not to mention a decent CDM like Skipp, a position we’ve failed to fill on a permanent employed basis for over 5 seasons now!   Add that they have now had two tortuous EPL experiences the will for another must be drained!   Don’t delude yourself, this squad isn’t very good!  

If we went up, undoubtedly we'd come straight back down with current the players/budget.

However we'd be a more attractive proposition for the Americans.

So bored of the Emi/Skipp stuff.

One player doesn't win you a Championship.

The core and spine of them teams that did are still here.

That should be enough to be completing for the Top2.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

8 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

If we went up, undoubtedly we'd come straight back down with current the players/budget.

However we'd be a more attractive proposition for the Americans.

 

i think the Opposite Say we stay down 

the club is short of money 

players leave out of contract and we are a mid table club in champs 

i think he would be far cheaper for Americans to buy 

they know if they invest what the club could be in the PL 

Buying NCFC must be easier and cheaper without success ?

if we go up get sky money there would be no rush For Delia and MWJ to sell  

[CDMullins 436]

3 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

i think the Opposite Say we stay down 

the club is short of money 

players leave out of contract and we are a mid table club in champs 

i think he would be far cheaper for Americans to buy 

they know if they invest what the club could be in the PL 

Buying NCFC must be easier and cheaper without success ?

if we go up get sky money there would be no rush For Delia and MWJ to sell  

Potentially you could be spot on,

However wouldn't they have just done that right away?

Delia an Co have seen how toxic the last year has been, at their ages would stomach be in it for another relegation?

The Prem is the gravy the Americans want.

 

[norfolkngood 1,086]

Just now, CDMullins said:

Potentially you could be spot on,

However wouldn't they have just done that right away?

Delia an Co have seen how toxic the last year has been, at their ages would stomach be in it for another relegation?

The Prem is the gravy the Americans want.

 

it all depends on Delia and MWJ when they want to sell 

my view is when the sky money parachute is still coming in they are under less pressure than when it stops 

i do not know and you might be right but i think once sky money stops it will be more a struggle that's when they might sell ?

The PL is where the Americans will want to be but buying a PL club with no debt with PL money  coming in

is a lot more than a champs club with no money i would of thought 

 

 

[ged in the onion bag 854]

Just now, CDMullins said:

If we went up, undoubtedly we'd come straight back down with current the players/budget.

However we'd be a more attractive proposition for the Americans.

So bored of the Emi/Skipp stuff.

One player doesn't win you a Championship.

The core and spine of them teams that did are still here.

That should be enough to be completing for the Top2.

We’d spend all the money trying to compete…. Come back down, embarrassed, fans disillusioned and frustrated, the football world fuming that yet again we couldn’t (they will taunt, wouldn’t) compete…with no money, disillusioned players and having not developed anything long-term!   We are currently in a vicious spiral and we need to get out of it, reset and go again!   
 

How exactly would we be more attractive to the Americans?

You may be bored of the Buendia and Skipp debate, but it is fact, they absolutely got us promoted.     Without Buendia, Pukki would have been less productive and opponents would not have feared us in their attitudes and team set up!   Yes, Buendia did win us promotion, everything good went through him.   Skipp protected / shielded the defence.    The rest were competent because Farke had them playing a particular system that they had become used to and was difficult for opponents to deal with… we tired teams out!    Skipp was the spine, otherwise we haven’t had a spine for 5 plus years since we can’t seem to scout CDMs!

Top 2!   The gulf between top 2 and 20th in EPL is vast!   We aren’t ready.

 

 

 

 

 

[mr footy 36]

Top six squad,anything less ,not acceptable.