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Todd Cantwell to Rangers

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9 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

We’re all entitled to our opinions, and most of them are based on assumption and conjecture, but I don’t understand why you claim that it’s irrational to assume that Todd himself is the problem when what evidence we have suggests otherwise.

And what evidence would that be? 

The evidence I've seen on the pitch is all I'm going on. I don't think there's another player in the squad capable of performing like Todd did against Stoke.

He only made one start (against QPR, in which I think he played well) and two substitute appearances since.

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Cantwell made the XI in Smith’s first game but what followed was 45 minutes to proved just how far off the pace he was by that point. Josh Sargent replaced him at half-time and Norwich won a Premier League game after being behind for the first time in five years.

His only other start under Smith came in the 2-0 defeat at home to Aston Villa, when Norwich now would have preferred to have pushed for postponement given their illness and injury issues. Cantwell’s reaction to being substituted on 61 minutes was to head straight down the tunnel.

Smith has since spoken publicly about conversations he has held with Cantwell regarding social media usage and keeping his focus on what is being demanded of him from his coaching staff and team-mates. New first-team coach Liam Bramley spent several minutes speaking to Cantwell on the Vicarage Road pitch after the team were informed of Smith’s 20-man squad for the game, which did not include Cantwell due to how he had trained in recent sessions.

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When asked to explain Cantwell's omission from Norwich’s matchday squad earlier in the season, Farke said: “Sadly I have to say with Todd the last couple of months, I can’t remember one full training week when he was available for the full week. He has missed too many sessions for personal reasons, or problems with his Achilles and ankle.

 

“He has to make sure he is working so hard to find his fitness level. You cannot afford to be out for two or three weeks, train a day or two and then be available to shine on this level. It is not possible.

"You can’t press a button. Maybe two weeks of full training with no setbacks, to bring that quality and consistency and fight your way back.

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2 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

 

Parma Ham's gone mouldy
   On 14/01/2023 at 11:02,  ricardo said: 

I always rated him highly but he seems to have felt that the club wouldn't give him the contract he felt he was worth.

We will shortly find who was correct.

Indeed.

When he was hot - and he was - his agent pushed for him to leave.

There was interest. Talk of Leeds willing to go to £15m.

We wanted more. Webber didn’t like the way his agent acted. 

Perhaps there was an element of making an example of his agent-him to strengthen the club’s hand in other negotiations (as they saw it). 

Many in football thought his agent was right. That that was his ‘hot’ moment. 

As things stand you have to say the agent was right (not a phrase you hear widely in football).

Parma  

Let’s imagine the agent was right.

You work your whole life for your big opportunity. You are ‘denied’ it. 

You are afraid your agent was right. You might never get that opportunity again. You might never hit those heights again. 

You might feel your game in-between-the-lines, popping up in awkward 3/4 spaces, striking off either foot, ‘ghosting’ into areas, is better suited to the higher levels of the game (given a chance). 

You might feel that your team - minus Buendia and Skipp - is on the slide. That the Championship doesn’t suit you that well. 

You might of course be wrong about all that. You shouldn’t think that that is your only opportunity. That your best future has been taken from you.

You shouldn’t feel like that. 

But we’re all human aren’t we? 

And it isn’t that wrong is it?

Parma 

@Petriix

@ricardo

@PurpleCanary

Edited by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

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17 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Let’s imagine the agent was right.

You work your whole life for your big opportunity. You are ‘denied’ it. 

You are afraid your agent was right. You might never get that opportunity again. You might never hit those heights again. 

You might feel your game in-between-the-lines, popping up in awkward 3/4 spaces, striking off either foot, ‘ghosting’ into areas, is better suited to the higher levels of the game (given a chance). 

You might feel that your team - minus Buendia and Skipp - is on the slide. That the Championship doesn’t suit you that well. 

You might of course be wrong about all that. You shouldn’t think that that is your only opportunity. That your best future has been taken from you.

You shouldn’t feel like that. 

But we’re all human aren’t we? 

And it isn’t that wrong is it?

Parma 

@Petriix

@ricardo

@PurpleCanary

If any if this was true (it isn't) then the loan move to Bournemouth with an option to buy (who clearly wanted him / thought he would be useful .. and to which Cantwell must have concurred) should of been the fresh start in which he would shine.

Clearly he didn't. He failed to impress there as well

It's not Norwich it's Cantwell where the issue primarily lies.

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If this was a civil court case presided over by a judge I can pretty much say what their professional verdict would be, having examined all the known facts, all the various - sometimes conflicting - hypotheses, and the arguments based on the facts and the hypotheses.

The judge would home in on one question which he won't have seen satisfactorily answered. If the reason for Cantwell's underperformance was that he was taking it out on the club for denying him a transfer move he wanted, why then did that underperformance continue when the club engineered for him a loan move, with the obvious possibility of it becoming permanent, to a Bournemouth side on its way up to the Premier League?

Edited by PurpleCanary
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35 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

If this was a civil court case presided over by a judge I can pretty much say what their professional verdict would be, having examined all the known facts, all the various - sometimes conflicting - hypotheses, and the arguments based on the facts and the hypotheses.

The judge would home in on one question which he won't have seen satisfactorily answered. If the reason for Cantwell's underperformance was that he was taking it out on the club for denying him a transfer move he wanted, why then did that underperformance continue when the club engineered for him a loan move, with the obvious possibility of it becoming permanent, to a Bournemoth side on its way up to the Premier League?

…Because your honour, playing permanently for Leeds in the Premier League is a very different sporting, financial and future security proposition to playing temporarily at a lower level in a different sporting environment at Bournemouth. 

A players career is short, beset by difficulties, injuries and loss of form. A player’s - and his agent’s job - is to maximise those moments when demand is high. They may not come again. The sport is littered with such examples. 

The opportunity horse had bolted. The prosecution’s client left the gate open. 

Parma rests. 

Edited by Parma Ham's gone mouldy

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21 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

If any if this was true (it isn't) then the loan move to Bournemouth with an option to buy (who clearly wanted him / thought he would be useful .. and to which Cantwell must have concurred) should of been the fresh start in which he would shine.

Clearly he didn't. He failed to impress there as well

It's not Norwich it's Cantwell where the issue primarily lies.

I find it difficult to believe that his obvious talent just disappeared overnight because its not something I have ever seen before. He was good for a long enough period to see that it wasn't just a flash in the pan.

I have no idea what went wrong but its a crying shame for him and for NCFC.

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Parma, I don't buy that at all. Even if your account about Leeds is true, and I have no idea either way, he was given a chance to get back into the Premier League with Bournemouth. Do well there and a bigger club might come calling. Instead his self-harming recalcitrance is threatening to send his career into a prolonged and perhaps even permanent decline. You are not, I trust, going to argue that if he was now with Bournemouth in the English Premier League he would remotely be considering moving to the Scottish equivalent?

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8 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Parma, I don't buy that at all. Even if your account about Leeds is true, and I have no idea either way, he was given a chance to get back into the Premier League with Bournemouth. Do well there and a bigger club might come calling. Instead his self-harming recalcitrance is threatening to send his career into a prolonged and perhaps even permanent decline. You are not, I trust, going to argue that if he was now with Bournemouth in the English Premier League he would remotely be considering moving to the Scottish equivalent?

Recalcitrance is my word of the day! Take a bow sir. 

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10 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Recalcitrance is my word of the day! Take a bow sir. 

Yep, what a cracking word  actually so many meanings 👍😉

unwilling to obey rules or follow instructions; difficult to control. And so soso much more.

last chance saloon toddy boy. Its now or never. 

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With this I find myself thinking of Billy Gilmour. Though hopelessly out of his depth in a position he wasn't suitable for, he was picked to start pretty much any game he was available for. It can't have been easy, and as many said, he never hid despite it all. 

Why did he keep getting starts? Presumably- questions over cost of loan decreasing aside- that he was training well, trying to do the right things and engaging with his role.

Contrast this with Todd. 4-3-3 didn't suit him and it was obviously tough (for everyone, I'd add) but if people can see you're still giving your best in trying circumstances that's usually enough. Pukki, Aarons and Hanley could have all moved to the PL this summer and (although disappointing) I doubt any would have gone with the ire of the fans. Most would agree they would be deserving given their service and attitude over a difficult period.

A good player, and I wish him well. But the only reason Cantwell has fallen away is Cantwell.

 

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10 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

With this I find myself thinking of Billy Gilmour. Though hopelessly out of his depth in a position he wasn't suitable for, he was picked to start pretty much any game he was available for. It can't have been easy, and as many said, he never hid despite it all. 

Why did he keep getting starts? Presumably- questions over cost of loan decreasing aside- that he was training well, trying to do the right things and engaging with his role.

Contrast this with Todd. 4-3-3 didn't suit him and it was obviously tough (for everyone, I'd add) but if people can see you're still giving your best in trying circumstances that's usually enough. Pukki, Aarons and Hanley could have all moved to the PL this summer and (although disappointing) I doubt any would have gone with the ire of the fans. Most would agree they would be deserving given their service and attitude over a difficult period.

A good player, and I wish him well. But the only reason Cantwell has fallen away is Cantwell.

 

Cracking TikTok dancer though. 

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Just now, ricardo said:

I find it difficult to believe that his obvious talent just disappeared overnight because its not something I have ever seen before. He was good for a long enough period to see that it wasn't just a flash in the pan.

I have no idea what went wrong but its a crying shame for him and for NCFC.

I agree - it's a crying shame for both Norwich and Cantwell but we must remove our yellow and green tinted specs. The market will always decide the right price for his services - and as far as I can tell nobody else has met his, or some of our fans valuation. I'm very sure Webber would of bitten your hand off if somebody had seriously (not agent talk) come in with a bid for £20M a few seasons back. Simply they didn't. Farke had his issues with Cantwell, Bournemouth couldn't make it work, neither could Smith. I guess Wagner (if the 35 minutes rumour is correct) said get rid - don't need the gripe / issues.  

I will go even further - Given the saga of will he / won't he / can he be bothered or is he just too good for us - I'm actually very pleased that Wagner has made clear he's no longer part of the plans - I suspect it had become a disruptive influence on the players who need to be giving their all and playing for the shirt. No passengers. A fresh start and no rotting baggage. That's what got us the Preston result.

 

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4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I agree - it's a crying shame for both Norwich and Cantwell but we must remove our yellow and green tinted specs. The market will always decide the right price for his services - and as far as I can tell nobody else has met his, or some of our fans valuation. I'm very sure Webber would of bitten your hand off if somebody had seriously (not agent talk) come in with a bid for £20M a few seasons back. Simply they didn't. Farke had his issues with Cantwell, Bournemouth couldn't make it work, neither could Smith. I guess Wagner (if the 35 minutes rumour is correct) said get rid - don't need the gripe / issues.  

I will go even further - Given the saga of will he / won't he / can he be bothered or is he just too good for us - I'm actually very pleased that Wagner has made clear he's no longer part of the plans - I suspect it had become a disruptive influence on the players who need to be giving their all and playing for the shirt. No passengers. A fresh start and no rotting baggage. That's what got us the Preston result.

 

Agree, also Wagner for sure will get more right than wrong at Norwich.  He's made his decision  , he does not want Todd around. Disappointed,  but it's the right decision for Norwich.  Basically I come on this thread every day in the hope he has gone . Because whatever the ins and outs , its gone OTT for far to long and enough is enough. Wagner has got games to win and he's made the correct decision 👏.  

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4 minutes ago, Mengo said:

Basically I come on this thread every day in the hope he has gone

I think you'll find that a certain someone will start a brand-new  thread the minute he does actually go. 

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1 hour ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

…Because your honour, playing permanently for Leeds in the Premier League is a very different sporting, financial and future security proposition to playing temporarily at a lower level in a different sporting environment at Bournemouth. 

A players career is short, beset by difficulties, injuries and loss of form. A player’s - and his agent’s job - is to maximise those moments when demand is high. They may not come again. The sport is littered with such examples. 

The opportunity horse had bolted. The prosecution’s client left the gate open. 

Parma rests. 

I am confused, are you suggesting the club should have sold Todd for 15M  to Leeds the same close season as Buendia left, and by not agreeing to sell him it was the clubs fault for the subsequent performances?  

Edited by Newtopia

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Just now, Newtopia said:

Considering what has been said are you suggesting the club should have sold Todd for 15M  to Leeds the same close season as when Buendia left?  

No club ever offered £15m or even £10m for Todd. 

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4 managers that's a lot have not used Todd and happy for him to leave 

a talented player once in the 15/20/25 million price bracket and None of them want him  ???

i think i will trust the Managers on this one 

Very Strange 

 

 

 

 

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On 07/01/2023 at 23:54, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

How will he like the cold weather up there??

He can wear some ear muffs to match the hair band and gloves

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4 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Let’s imagine the agent was right.

You work your whole life for your big opportunity. You are ‘denied’ it. 

You are afraid your agent was right. You might never get that opportunity again. You might never hit those heights again. 

You might feel your game in-between-the-lines, popping up in awkward 3/4 spaces, striking off either foot, ‘ghosting’ into areas, is better suited to the higher levels of the game (given a chance). 

You might feel that your team - minus Buendia and Skipp - is on the slide. That the Championship doesn’t suit you that well. 

You might of course be wrong about all that. You shouldn’t think that that is your only opportunity. That your best future has been taken from you.

You shouldn’t feel like that. 

But we’re all human aren’t we? 

And it isn’t that wrong is it?

Parma 

@Petriix

@ricardo

@PurpleCanary

Sigmund Freud once said a cigar is just a cigar. If you where his Dad what would you say to him? 

Edited by mastoola

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I’m not sure that the melting pot of Glasgow and the biggest rivalry in world football is perhaps the place for a footballer who it would appear is quite fragile. 
 

I remember Robert Fleck saying it was one if the reasons he left Rangers as the rivalry is pure hatred for many supporters. I think Lambert said the same, you can’t go out for a quite meal anywhere as some see you as fair game even away from the pitch.  

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1 hour ago, percy varco said:

I do not think another club will buy Cantwell this transfer window. 
The circus has dragged on for too long

He'll be gone by the end of this window. Whether it will be on loan with a view to a permanent move on the end of his contract or a permanent move now, that's what seems to be up in the air.

If we get any money for him we'll have done well.

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18 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

And as far as the weather goes, I'm just outside Glasgow. It's -5 at the moment. He seems like a gloves kinda guy.

He'll need to go full tights/snood/thermals and let's not forget the indoors Beanie. 🤣

Apples

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20 hours ago, Danke bitte said:

I thought I’d celebrate / commiserate (depending on stance) with an AI montage of Todd leaving.

 

image.thumb.png.7ab2b3ee745fe8ed47663f7a09e97f8b.png

The thought is both Cantwell and Hugill are on their way out of Carrow Road. The photos suggest it will  be together.

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3 minutes ago, Herman said:

 

Thank goodness. The quicker we can get this over the finish line the better for all parties and we can finally draw a line on Todd. It's been going on longer than Eastenders 🤣

Any money we get is a bonus! 

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