Wagner to be announced?

[Mason 47 1,379]

If Wagner can get us defending as a unit and not in fits & starts, we will improve no end.

Clean slate.

[Indy 3,298]

31 minutes ago, hogesar said:

See, I think this is where the wider fanbase will completely disagree with you.

Farkes first season came after an 8th championship finish. Not a Premier League relegation.

His first season saw us lose the likes of Ruddy, Bennett, Howson and Jacob Murphy to be replaced by relative German unknowns.

Smith was able to keep the Premier League squad and add to it with around £12 million of transfers.

The expectation and club status were completely different, to be fair.

Absolutely, to compare the two seasons is totally wrong, Smith also had 6 months in the premiership to assess and implement a system through the summer, we looked devoid of any system, Smith wasn’t committed to the club and we’re now in a mess, but we do have a decent squad and with the right manager / coach we could still turn this season into a promotion.

Wagner is certainly a decent coach for our club, we’re not attractive to the likes of Knutsen, Parker, Gerrard  etc. we’re not a premiership club with money to burn, we’re going to have to do it on a budget, Wagner certainly has a history of getting promoted on a budget and staying up, a little like Lambert with us. So I’m pleased he’s coming in, I’d have liked Robbins with his connection and style of football on tough budgets, but I doubt he’d move from Covvy at the moment as they are now looking into transitioning into possibly the next Brighton or Bournemouth.

We shall see but I’m more upbeat with Wagner than I ever was with Smith, it just never seamed right, more a rebound to get someone in off sacking Farke.

[CDMullins 436]

SkySports reporting it's done 

[RugbyCanary 94]

Not over whelmed IF it is Wagner. Seems a very safe appointment. Let's see though......maybe a master stroke, who knows. All I ask, can sarge be played in his actual position? !!

[sonyc 5,517]

9 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Pukki, Aarons, Dimi, Nunez, Cantwell.

No we don't, we just need to get on a run of games again, as they did earlier in the season.  Wagner builds teams and spirit, but most importantly has wingbacks that he desires and one of the best positional strikers in this league.

Up to you if you want to start waving the white flag, though.

Spot on. Wagner tends to build a team. It takes time to build of course, because you have to get the foundations right. 

I've not given up in Nunez yet even though I reckon he has disappointed me more than he has encouraged me. Will be really interesting to see what DW does to build a system that the whole team understands - I rarely understood Smith's or even his tactics - his use of subs being one that worked well early on this season but I couldn't discern whether we were long ball at times (which rarely suited with Teemu). Under DW we ought to see more of a style. Webber alluded to this in what he was looking for in the recruitment process.

Building a team may take time, that's the only thing. I doubt we have given up on promotion at all but it could take 18 months to build something. Alex Neil galvanised a team to break into the top 3 after Neil Adams but this Wagner appointment (assuming the leaked German press story is true) has a different feel about it.

Overall, I'm intrigued to see what happens. Our managerial change has been a good distraction from all the events taking place in the country, the strikes, the NHS. It has taken my mind off those more serious long term problems. Will now be good to see how this all works out.

[Petriix 2,835]

46 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You were not remotely patient with Dean Smith, especially in comparison to the nearly unprecedented patience afforded Farke.

18 months is a deceptive way of putting it. It was more like 2/3 of a season with a sub-standard inherited squad fire-fighting in the Premier League and half a season  rebuilding in the Championship, most of it spent at the top end of the table.

Edit: Smith was with us since November 2021, so nothing like 18 months anyway.

Sorry, you're right, it was 14 months.

After 12 months of Farke many of us were questioning his tactics, especially in the first few weeks of that second season. Not calling for his head, just raising concerns; the same as people did with Smith. I even came up with the "Shut your farking face Daniel Farke" chant at the start of that season, though it (weirdly) never caught on. 

The difference between the two in the autumn of their second season is why one was sacked and the other was backed. In the 12 games from 2 October Farke won 8 and gained 27 points. Smith won 3 gaining 12 points. Then we lost to 10 man, 16th place Luton.

And if you think Smith inherited a sub-standard squad just 11 games after the club achieved its highest ever points total then what on earth do you make of the squad Farke inherited?

I was equally patient with both. Under Farke we had a clear style which had clicked spectacularly by Christmas 2019. Under Smith we were in free fall with no coherent plan. If we'd be performing the same under Farke then I'd have been equally vociferous in my derision.

Let's hope it's hypothetical but, should our new coach perform as badly, I would hope that he is also sacked. The equivalent point would be summer 2024. If we only win 3 out of our last 12 games in the Championship and finish 10th then I'd be asking for a change. 

[Mr Angry 1,555]

Wow, if true, this appointment is completely out of the blue 🤣

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,273]

So Webber has 4 managerial appointments in his career. 

He’s appointed the same manager twice (Wagner), two mangers from the same club (Dortmund 2) and Dean Smith, recently sacked and against all the guff he spouted about continuity of style, etc.

Webber talks about being creative. His managerial appointments are not that. 

You get the feeling his contacts in the game are limited and exhausted.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Creedence Clearwater Couto

[Payno10 51]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

The key question is how long is his contract for?

Ideally he should be given a 6 month contract! 

[HoolaOHoolahan 21]

I think this is a promising appointment. Dean Smith ruined any chance of patience when he blamed the fans for what was happening on the pitch.(He'd not done much to bring us on board since he joined either)

The new manager needs to bring us all together.

Then he needs some time to build the team. We've lost some great players and characters from our dressing room and we need to replace them. We miss Buendia and Skipp massively on the pitch and probably Alex Tettey and Zimmerman in the dressing room.

Without some decent replacements, it's going to be a really hard job for any manager.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by HoolaOHoolahan

[littleyellowbirdie 2,547]

43 minutes ago, NeymarSmith said:

Jeeez LYB, you have got to stop Dean smith as a Hat.

He had transfer windows. He had nearly half a season in the league below. He had a pre season and a WC break. DS did nothing of note, didn't get a tune out of the players, couldn't even pick an 11 with any sense of what the plan was. This was seen consistently home and away.

What case can you finally put forward as to why the fuzz DS deserved anymore time.

DF, I didn't want him to go, and if he did have extra time (which you claim compared to Ds) this would be because he had the credit in the bank with two champ titles.

He had one transfer window where anything happened.

Credit in the bank is just sentiment, not rational evaluation. Fact is there was negative sentiment to Smith carried over from last season that he didn't deserve. If anything, he deserved credit for even taking the job on given what an awful start we had in the Premier League under Farke.

[shefcanary 2,405]

2 hours ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Does this mean that German media is added to the Stuart Webber media verboten list?

Not sure, but surely Wagner's representative's were the source of the leak - that means Webber is likely to call the whole thing off!

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,308]

17 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

SkySports reporting it's done 

That's it, sky sports joins the blocked list 🤣

[Mr Angry 1,555]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Good appointment. Is he better than Farke? Time will tell, but if he is not as good, or significantly worse, then the folly of sacking Farke for one dismal failure for then another, would take on new levels of idiocy......but he should be significantly better than Smith was, at least.

He already has a better record than Farke in the EPL, with a worse squad.

[canarycop 206]

Let's hope he is given some new players to work with.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,547]

12 minutes ago, Petriix said:

Sorry, you're right, it was 14 months.

After 12 months of Farke many of us were questioning his tactics, especially in the first few weeks of that second season. Not calling for his head, just raising concerns; the same as people did with Smith. I even came up with the "Shut your farking face Daniel Farke" chant at the start of that season, though it (weirdly) never caught on. 

The difference between the two in the autumn of their second season is why one was sacked and the other was backed. In the 12 games from 2 October Farke won 8 and gained 27 points. Smith won 3 gaining 12 points. Then we lost to 10 man, 16th place Luton.

And if you think Smith inherited a sub-standard squad just 11 games after the club achieved its highest ever points total then what on earth do you make of the squad Farke inherited?

I was equally patient with both. Under Farke we had a clear style which had clicked spectacularly by Christmas 2019. Under Smith we were in free fall with no coherent plan. If we'd be performing the same under Farke then I'd have been equally vociferous in my derision.

Let's hope it's hypothetical but, should our new coach perform as badly, I would hope that he is also sacked. The equivalent point would be summer 2024. If we only win 3 out of our last 12 games in the Championship and finish 10th then I'd be asking for a change. 

Sacking mid-season is always stupid in my book unless you're really in a desperate spot. I completely believe Smith could have got us promoted if fans had backed the players properly in the games while Smith was in charge.

Sacking Farke was pointless because we were in a hopeless situation and all it did was ensure that a good manager carried the can for the failure Farke engineered. Now Smith had to go mostly because of Farke's sacking at the time it happened rather than any fault of his own.

But even then there were plenty of voices calling for Farke's head when he left, so again Webber's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't listen to fans in the ground if it doesn't go on to work out.

Edited January 4, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

It is not an obviously bad choice. It would be interesting to know who were the other two on the shortlist,

.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

45 minutes ago, Don’t be Krul said:

Disappointed with a complete lack of vision by this appointment

I disagree, I think he's got great taste in spectacles and chooses the right frames for his head shape. 

[Indy 3,298]

12 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Sacking mid-season is always stupid in my book unless you're really in a desperate spot. I completely believe Smith could have got us promoted if fans had backed the players properly in the games while Smith was in charge.

Sacking Farke was pointless because we were in a hopeless situation and all it did was ensure that a good manager carried the can for the failure Farke engineered. Now Smith had to go mostly because of Farke's sacking at the time it happened rather than any fault of his own.

But even then there were plenty of voices calling for Farke's head when he left, so again Webber's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't listen to fans in the ground if it doesn't go on to work out.

Smith was sacked for having the worst record of any recent manager in the job! He was ****ing useless! It’s not Farke’s fault or the fans but his own inept manner and hisar lack of getting a decent squad playing coherent and good football! The players appear to be happy he’s gone……..so are most of fan base……..

[Nexus_Canary 1,016]

16 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Sacking mid-season is always stupid in my book unless you're really in a desperate spot. I completely believe Smith could have got us promoted if fans had backed the players properly in the games while Smith was in charge.

Sacking Farke was pointless because we were in a hopeless situation and all it did was ensure that a good manager carried the can for the failure Farke engineered. Now Smith had to go mostly because of Farke's sacking at the time it happened rather than any fault of his own.

But even then there were plenty of voices calling for Farke's head when he left, so again Webber's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't listen to fans in the ground if it doesn't go on to work out.

You still crying Jesus shush already 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,547]

1 minute ago, Indy said:

Smith was sacked for having the worst record of any recent manager in the job! He was ****ing useless! It’s not Farke’s fault or the fans but his own inept manner and hisar lack of getting a decent squad playing coherent and good football! The players appear to be happy he’s gone……..so are most of fan base……..

Worst record? Only for inheriting Farke's mess. 

Take a season of Failure premier League and his mid -table championship season, which is fair if you about for amount of time given to change things, and Farke was worse.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,547]

4 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

You still crying Jesus shush already 

It's your persistent hissy fits that have got us here, mate.

[Dame to Blame 95]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

There's a lot of fair points there, but there's no escaping the fact that a lot resented Smith even when we were top of the league. That resentment was obvious. There were articles on the pink un referencing the apathetic and disinterested atmosphere there was when we were top of the league. That definitely will have negatively affected players who deserved more support from fans for getting us there. Contrast that to the explosion of anger on here the very first loss after a nine-game unbeaten run that took us to the automatic promotion slots.

Us fans who don't go to Carrow Road are purely a source of revenue for the club. The ones who do go are playing a part in the club's success, and for me those fans collectively have been a cause of underperformance this season with their apathy. Now we'll never know what Smith might have done if he'd been given the support he should have had all season.

Moving on, the new guy's now starting from scratch and that now needs to be taken into account the way it wasn't for Smith, but was for Farke and then some.

 

Couldnt agree more, there were plenty of fans who were not going to have him regardless of what he acheived, he was doomed from the start. He has a very good track record and i have no doubt that he will suceed elsewhere ,and i hope he does he deserved better than what he got here.

[Indy 3,298]

24 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

It is not an obviously bad choice. It would be interesting to know who were the other two on the shortlist,

.

Steve Weaver & Allan Russell ? 😉

[Google Bot 3,275]

10 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Take a season of Failure premier League and his mid -table championship season, which is fair if you about for amount of time given to change things, and Farke was worse.

Farke took us forward and progressed not only our league position from when he took over, but our entire philosophy as a team. 

Smith has done what exactly?  I mean, there's no comparison there.... Backwards in regards to system, frustrated players, and league position way below the average of the past 4 years.

Under Farke we never fell below the initial point that he took over, Smith we fell hard.

It just didn't work, for whatever reason.  **** just happens like that, doesn't mean that Smith couldn't go on to guide a prem league team to top 6 in future.  He never seemed to get any luck here, injuries, players going awol etc.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Google Bot

[ricardo 7,385]

I don’t  want to put a damper on it but all regimes come to an end eventually. They either move on or are moved out. At a minimum I hope this one is more successful than the last one. From the outside it certainly looks like a better fit.

[Mengo 822]

36 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

It is not an obviously bad choice. It would be interesting to know who were the other two on the shortlist,

.

 

Sky Sports News has been told Norwich interviewed four candidates for the role, following the sacking of Dean Smith last month.

 

But Wagner's experience in getting Huddersfield promoted from the Championship and then keeping them in the Premier League the following season was a key factor in his favour.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

OK, we probably have our new man. I shall try to be as consistent as I can in passing judgement, and shall try to give him time and I have indeed readily said I prefer to let a manager have three transfer windows to shape their squad. I do think the criticism of him "failing" at Schalke is harsh considering the basket case Schalke had become financially and indeed it became apparent when they were relegated. And he did do quite well with Young Boys in the Champions League, they just struggled early on in the Swiss season as the demands of the CL alongside it were hard to juggle. With less stringent demands in Europe to handle, they're back at the top of Swiss football again - so far.

He has a hard job in front of him regarding getting a tune out of this squad, but not as hard as following probably our most popular manager of recent times. @littleyellowbirdie essentially appears to think that it poisoned the atmosphere, which goes too far for me, but I will always point out the halo effect in that whoever comes after a very popular/talented/exceptional sort always has it much harder by dint of direct comparison. Whoever comes in this time is up against Smith, who wasn't popular and the results were crap for quite a period.

If it is Wagner, then there's the bonus that Webber and him had success together at Huddersfield and know each other inside out. Might, depending on your view, re-energise Webber as he knows he has someone there who's proven in his eyes. Wagner will want success again, or at least be laying strong foundations towards it.

I'm just delighted it's not Bruce, Gerrard, Lampard, etc. And I think it's come too soon for Martin.

 

[shefcanary 2,405]

I'm distinctly uncomfortable with the appointment of Wagner.

It's just too cosy. Lazy even.

I hope I'm proved wrong. But ...

I was, hoping for a disruptor (weirdly, a la Truss) to come in and really shake up the corridors of the Carra. I guess with the rolling 12 months contract he's been given, this smacks of a holding appointment until Attanasio and crew gain full control and then get down to real work. 

Plus ça change (plus c'est la même chose).

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

Pukki, Aarons, Dimi, Nunez, Cantwell.

Two of them out of contract in 6 months.