Wise words indeed

[nutty nigel 7,509]

42 minutes ago, CardiffCanary said:

I’ll step back in nutty 

 

The Paddy article I originally refer to at the start of the post was titled ‘the sad demise of dean smith ‘ or something similar.

 

Paddy writes very eloquently about our current situation and finished the article with the paragraph at the top of this thread .

 

I don’t think it’s was at all a remark regarding where delia lives or her loyalty  but merely that many of us fans were here before Dean smith, before Webber and before the majority share holders.

 

So my question still remains it is OUR club and always will be and we need to get it back. How ? 
 

It maybe as simple as being the right manager in and we’ll get winning and get FCR rocking again 🙏

Sorry Cardiff, just saw this. It's a sentiment that comes around as the football cycle goes around. It's never 'our club' when the cycle is down and it's always 'our club' when the cycle goes back up. We have been very fortunate for the last few years that the lows have been short lived. Hopefully this one will be too. 

I have concerns though. 6 months ago the unrest was all about Webber and the owners. Currently it's about the manager. Now he's gone if we don't start winning games and looking like promotion contenders the unrest will re-target. If this takeover is in the making I doubt the current owners are likely to start a new project. 

You're right, let's hope for the best👍

 

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by nutty nigel

[CardiffCanary 128]

21 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Sorry Cardiff, just saw this. It's a sentiment that comes around as the football cycle goes around. It's never 'our club' when the cycle is down and it's always 'our club' when the cycle goes back up. We have been very fortunate for the last few years that the lows have been short lived. Hopefully this one will be too. 

I have concerns though. 6 months ago the unrest was all about Webber and the owners. Currently it's about the manager. Now he's gone if we don't start winning games and looking like promotion contenders the unrest will re-target. If this takeover is in the making I doubt the current owners are likely to start a new project. 

You're right, let's hope for the best👍

 

 

Very wise words Indeed my friend …

let’s hope we get winning again soon and turn this whole thing around.

🙏🙏🙏

 

 

 

[essex canary 491]

10 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Sorry Cardiff, just saw this. It's a sentiment that comes around as the football cycle goes around. It's never 'our club' when the cycle is down and it's always 'our club' when the cycle goes back up. We have been very fortunate for the last few years that the lows have been short lived. Hopefully this one will be too. 

I have concerns though. 6 months ago the unrest was all about Webber and the owners. Currently it's about the manager. Now he's gone if we don't start winning games and looking like promotion contenders the unrest will re-target. If this takeover is in the making I doubt the current owners are likely to start a new project. 

You're right, let's hope for the best👍

 

 

When doing the promotion interview 18 months ago, D&M were celebrating the achievements of the second half of their tenure and somewhat dismissing those of the first half. In football terms they are quite right in that the first 13 years included only 1 season in the PL whereas the second 13 years has included 6 such seasons. In non-football terms though perhaps exactly the opposite could be argued?

We spent £118 million on wages last season. We have just been doubled by a Club who won't have spent £18 million let alone £100 million. They reached the play offs last season, won 3-0 last night at the Club rumoured to have the richest owners in the country and have acquired a very good striker who we had on our books for years but didn't get a fat fee for his sale.

Since Farke had recently signed a 4 year contract and Smith 2 and a half years, very shortly we shall be effectively paying for 3 head coaches at the same time not to mention their colleagues. All of them have been certified by Webber as satisfying the values and philosophy of the Club. Then of course there is Zoe and the suits.

Perhaps there isn't too much wrong but I think you are a long way off from getting your TV extras payment.

 

[Mark .Y. 351]

43 minutes ago, essex canary said:

When doing the promotion interview 18 months ago, D&M were celebrating the achievements of the second half of their tenure and somewhat dismissing those of the first half. In football terms they are quite right in that the first 13 years included only 1 season in the PL whereas the second 13 years has included 6 such seasons. In non-football terms though perhaps exactly the opposite could be argued?

We spent £118 million on wages last season. We have just been doubled by a Club who won't have spent £18 million let alone £100 million. They reached the play offs last season, won 3-0 last night at the Club rumoured to have the richest owners in the country and have acquired a very good striker who we had on our books for years but didn't get a fat fee for his sale.

Since Farke had recently signed a 4 year contract and Smith 2 and a half years, very shortly we shall be effectively paying for 3 head coaches at the same time not to mention their colleagues. All of them have been certified by Webber as satisfying the values and philosophy of the Club. Then of course there is Zoe and the suits.

Perhaps there isn't too much wrong but I think you are a long way off from getting your TV extras payment.

 

Just a small point on this @essex canary , I thought I remembered reading years ago that in football, sacked Managers wages were only generally continued to be paid until they took a new job.

 

Maybe somebody knows for sure ?? 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

2 hours ago, essex canary said:

When doing the promotion interview 18 months ago, D&M were celebrating the achievements of the second half of their tenure and somewhat dismissing those of the first half. In football terms they are quite right in that the first 13 years included only 1 season in the PL whereas the second 13 years has included 6 such seasons. In non-football terms though perhaps exactly the opposite could be argued?

We spent £118 million on wages last season. We have just been doubled by a Club who won't have spent £18 million let alone £100 million. They reached the play offs last season, won 3-0 last night at the Club rumoured to have the richest owners in the country and have acquired a very good striker who we had on our books for years but didn't get a fat fee for his sale.

Since Farke had recently signed a 4 year contract and Smith 2 and a half years, very shortly we shall be effectively paying for 3 head coaches at the same time not to mention their colleagues. All of them have been certified by Webber as satisfying the values and philosophy of the Club. Then of course there is Zoe and the suits.

Perhaps there isn't too much wrong but I think you are a long way off from getting your TV extras payment.

 

Struggling to see what relevance this has to my quoted post. 

[essex canary 491]

14 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Struggling to see what relevance this has to my quoted post. 

As per the original article quote, the Webbers and majority owners must share the responsibility for where we are rather than trying to heap everything onto Deano. Apologies if I  interpreted your comments incorrectly but you appeared to be implying otherwise.

[essex canary 491]

2 hours ago, Mark .Y. said:

Just a small point on this @essex canary , I thought I remembered reading years ago that in football, sacked Managers wages were only generally continued to be paid until they took a new job.

 

Maybe somebody knows for sure ?? 

I don't know. An interesting point. Given the merry-go-round, it ought to be. I would be surprised though.

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

13 minutes ago, essex canary said:

As per the original article quote, the Webbers and majority owners must share the responsibility for where we are rather than trying to heap everything onto Deano. Apologies if I  interpreted your comments incorrectly but you appeared to be implying otherwise.

No I wasn't. As I understand it since we have had these owners it's always been a team effort. But they pick the team so ultimately are responsible for good and bad seasons.

If we are on the way to new ownership they will appoint who they want. This could mean sacking managers as we currently do or even as Watford currently do. If you believe the polls on this site there's quite a thirst for the Watford model🙃

[Midlands Yellow 3,924]

14 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

It's interesting. No Lambert years, no Alex Neil play off success. No Farke years. But of course what you were waiting for could have been better.

However your other two clubs suggest a different outcome...

Who are the other two clubs? News to me. 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

10 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Who are the other two clubs? News to me. 

Probably a poor choice of words.

How about 'the two basket case clubs you revere in your posts'?🙃

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by nutty nigel

[shefcanary 2,383]

2 hours ago, Mark .Y. said:

Just a small point on this @essex canary , I thought I remembered reading years ago that in football, sacked Managers wages were only generally continued to be paid until they took a new job.

 

Maybe somebody knows for sure ?? 

In short no-one does @Mark .Y. other than the parties to the final compensation agreement.

If the sacked party took the club to Employment tribunal ("ET"), the outcome from the ET would normally be the payment of contractual terms in full, UNLESS the sacked party has since started a new employment, where the salary earned in the new employment would be deducted. You can see generally that this would probably result in very little compensation at all.

However very few cases ever reach ET (unless something other than poor performance on the pitch is involved, so another disciplinary reason for the sacking). Both parties employ expensive lawyers who will be quick to point out the likely ET ruling, so the actual final payment (where separation is mutually agreed, as is the case here) will be a compromise, somewhere between £Nil and the full contractual cost.

This may be why the final announcement of Smith's departure was nearly a full 24 hours after the Luton game finished. Reports suggested that Smith, Shakespeare and Bramley left Luton in a people carrier separate to the team coach, so it would imply Webber actually sacked them after the media duties were complete, a la Farke (what a fine MO Webber is building). So most of the next day was likely spent agreeing terms of compensation, before a formal announcement was made.

My guess will be something around 12 months salary for all three, but that is just my guess. It won't be anywhere near the full contractual obligation however. The next financial statements may reveal a bit more, but it will only be a number covering all three pay-offs, so the exact figures will never be known.

[Greavsy 2,412]

Why do football managers get paid off when sacked for not delivering their targets. 

Wouldn't happen in the real world. 

Football being different again. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,924]

2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Probably a poor choice of words.

How about 'the two basket case clubs you revere in your posts'?🙃

 

Leicester and Ipswich? 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

15 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Leicester and Ipswich? 

Ha! Never seen you show any love for Leicester, the opposite in fact. Do I need to add them now?

[Midlands Yellow 3,924]

3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Ha! Never seen you show any love for Leicester, the opposite in fact. Do I need to add them now?

No, can’t stand them, fantastic owners though. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by Midlands Yellow

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

2 hours ago, Greavsy said:

Why do football managers get paid off when sacked for not delivering their targets. 

Wouldn't happen in the real world. 

Football being different again. 

Oh but it does.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

6 hours ago, Mark .Y. said:

Just a small point on this @essex canary , I thought I remembered reading years ago that in football, sacked Managers wages were only generally continued to be paid until they took a new job.

 

Maybe somebody knows for sure ?? 

Sacked managers get whatever payments their contracts provide. In most cases the manager gets the salary for the unexpired portion of their contract . Often in the case on NCFC the managers get their money quickly in a lump sum often in consideration of signing an nda. You rarely hear much from a sacked manager of NCFC for this reason . 
 

 

[Greavsy 2,412]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

Oh but it does.

Seriously? 

People get the sack for not achieving their targets and are paid off to leave? 

I'm in the wrong job!! 

 

[Midlands Yellow 3,924]

10 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Seriously? 

People get the sack for not achieving their targets and are paid off to leave? 

I'm in the wrong job!! 

 

I wish the NHS would sack me and pay me off. 

[shefcanary 2,383]

33 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Seriously? 

People get the sack for not achieving their targets and are paid off to leave? 

I'm in the wrong job!! 

 

Staff who do not meet performance targets will still get paid off the contractual obligation. For most that is probably just the notice period (but that can be anything from 1 week to 1 year). But in some cases, the contractual obligation might stretch to notice plus other benefits negotiated at the start of their employment, which in short term contracts could include the total salary due inder the contract (the usual terms for football managers).

Most contracts do not include provisions whereby notice etc. is not payable should performance targets not be met. However if there are disciplinary issues then notice periods can be avoided, but inevitably these situations usually end up in ET, invariably settlement is still made.

I doubt you are on the wrong job @Greavsy. If you miss your targets at work and are not under a disciplinary when your employers decide to end your employment, you will be paid up your notice and any holiday pay owed you. That is no different in law to what football managers get, just the sums are larger.

[shefcanary 2,383]

30 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I wish the NHS would sack me and pay me off. 

As per answer above, you will be paid contractual notice and any holiday pay owed etc under your contract, unless you are being sacked due to disciplinary reasons. No different in law to football managers, just the sums are smaller.