Billy Gilmour and a tweet that aged well. Not.

[TheDarkKnight 444]

2 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Gilmour needs a free role to work. But for every Pirlo, you need a Gattuso ball-winner and a Seedorf box-to-box man alongside him to make it work.

I think he's in the wrong country, personally. He'd probably do really well as a deep-lying playmaker in Serie A.

Exactly right. Pretty much one of the many reasons why Pogba was electric in Serie A was because he had the likes of Vidal doing the dirty work.

I was thinking that, too. In Serie A, etc. He'd have more time on the ball. Would love to see him go abroad. 

[hogesar 8,079]

17 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

England only have anchorman (Phillips, Henderson and Rice) and then a multitude of number 10s (Bellingham, Saka, Mount, Foden, Sterling, Rashford, etc)

This is why the likes of USA can dominate against England. You don't produce midfields who can pass a ****load and knit things together, eg Gavi, Pedri, De Jong, etc.

Billy Gilmour would walk into the England midfield.

People are free to sneer and chuckle all they like, but when a 19 year old Musah and the likes of Tyler Adams can dominate a midfield of Rice, Bellingham and Mount (a midfield which has the market price of £223m) then all bets are off.

Walking is about as much as Billy Gilmour can be attributed with in terms of ability. He can probably walk.

He wouldn't get anywhere near England's midfield. He's a championship player. John Stones would perform better in midfield than Billy f*cking Gilmour

[king canary 6,409]

4 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Even the most ardent critic of Billy Gilmour would say that his main attributes are showing for the ball, taking it on the half turn and doing the simple things.

England do not have that.

Graeme Souness said it after the England vs Scotland game that England don't have a player like Gilmour. And he is right.

It's not about Gilmour. It's about the type of player he is.

THE MIDFIELD TEMPLATE HOLDING BACK ENGLISH FOOTBALL FOR DECADES AND SOLUTIONS IN SPAIN

'England lack a player with this particular skillset' does not equal 'any player with this skillset would walk into the team.'

Gilmour may have that skillset but his other weaknesses and limitations are why he can't get a game for Brighton and looked totally out of his depth last season. 

So a player with Gilmour's skillset and without some of his other limitations would likely walk into England's midfield. But Gilmour himself wouldn't. 

[TheGunnShow 4,805]

England vs. Wales is going to be funny. Two teams with central midfield issues. That said, Wales look really weak there to the extent a poor Iran side had them in trouble on every counter-attack.

[TheDarkKnight 444]

17 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Walking is about as much as Billy Gilmour can be attributed with in terms of ability. He can probably walk.

He wouldn't get anywhere near England's midfield. He's a championship player. John Stones would perform better in midfield than Billy f*cking Gilmour

Well, if that's your opinion then that's your opinion.

[TheDarkKnight 444]

23 minutes ago, king canary said:

'England lack a player with this particular skillset' does not equal 'any player with this skillset would walk into the team.'

Gilmour may have that skillset but his other weaknesses and limitations are why he can't get a game for Brighton and looked totally out of his depth last season. 

So a player with Gilmour's skillset and without some of his other limitations would likely walk into England's midfield. But Gilmour himself wouldn't. 

No. He can't get into the Brighton team (who are 7th and playing well) because his competition are currently playing at the World cup: McAllister with Argentina and a player called Caisedo who has been linked with Real Madrid and Liverpool. 

You don't think the likes of Phillips and Rice have limitations? Rice will most probably play in defence when he eventually moves to Chelsea. 

Gilmour didn't have the best time at Norwich (even though, numbers wise, he outshone McLean and Normann), we all know this. But the way that some people talk about him it's like he's the reincarnation of Carlton Palmer (if he was dead. Which he isn't.)

Edited November 28, 2022 by TheDarkKnight

[hogesar 8,079]

11 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

No. He can't get into the Brighton team (who are 7th and playing well) because his competition are currently playing at the World cup: McAllister with Argentina and a player called Caisedo who has been linked with Real Madrid and Liverpool. 

You don't think the likes of Phillips and Rice have limitations? Rice will most probably play in defence when he eventually moves to Chelsea. 

Gilmour didn't have the best time at Norwich (even though, numbers wise, he outshone McLean and Normann), we all know this. But the way that some people talk about him it's like he's the reincarnation of Carlton Palmer (if he was dead. Which he isn't.)

Rice is a much better midfielder than Gilmour too. 

Like @king canary says, Gilmour's weaknesses means he doesn't get ahead of those in the England set up who have limitations. None of their weaknesses are as catastrophic in terms of tactical structure and midfield stability than Gilmours lack of pretty much everything other than being decent at passing.

[TheDarkKnight 444]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Rice is a much better midfielder than Gilmour too. 

Like @king canary says, Gilmour's weaknesses means he doesn't get ahead of those in the England set up who have limitations. None of their weaknesses are as catastrophic in terms of tactical structure and midfield stability than Gilmours lack of pretty much everything other than being decent at passing.

Better at what? Defensively? Without question. Physically? Totally. 

But actual technique and passing and special awareness? No.

Saying that, though, teams need midfielders like Rice. He's like a far more limited Casemiro.

Gilmour's failing is that he's what, 21 now? and he's only had one full season of regular football under his belt. 

Formative years are important in a player's development. 

I do get it. "Everyone was building Gilmour up to be the new Zidane and that little Norwich are lucky to have him", he "failed" and it stuck in peoples craw a wee bit. So you stick it to him and laugh and laugh.

But as The Smith's said, the joke isn't funny anymore.

[kirku 1,316]

1 minute ago, TheDarkKnight said:

I do get it. "Everyone was building Gilmour up to be the new Zidane and that little Norwich are lucky to have him", he "failed" and it stuck in peoples craw a wee bit. So you stick it to him and laugh and laugh.

But as The Smith's said, the joke isn't funny anymore.

The only joke here is the assertion that "Gilmour would walk into an England midfield" that is "3 injuries away from starting Shaun Longstaff".

It's laughable.

[Mengo 757]

90 mins  . Arsenal 1 brighton 3.

Billy Gilmour looks to kick on after Brighton breakthrough vs Arsenal

10th November.

Billy Gilmour aiming to kick on after Brighton breakthrough against Arsenal .

SCOTLAND midfielder Billy Gilmour insists he is loving life at Brighton despite his lack of game time.

After making the move from Chelsea to the Seagulls on transfer deadline day, Gilmour had to wait until Wednesday evening to make his full debut as he shone in the Carabao Cup 3-1 win at Arsenal.

Another complication for the 21-year-old at Brighton was the fact that manager Graham Potter left to join Chelsea within a week of Gilmour’s arrival on the south coast.

In the Premier League, the former Rangers trainee has been restricted to only 13 minutes of action across four substitute outings under new boss Roberto De Zerbi.

However, Gilmour, who is in the national team squad for next week’s friendly in Turkey, is hoping to kick on from his 90-minute appearance against the Gunners.

He said: “I am enjoying it, I need to be patient for my opportunity.

"I got an opportunity on Wednesday and played okay so I need to build on that, but I’m loving life here so far and hopefully that continues.

“Of course you get frustrated sometimes but we’re all together as a team, we’re in it for the full season so we need to stick together and push and see how high we can get up.

“I’m enjoying it, we play good football, possession-based but it’s all for a reason - it’s not just to keep the ball. It’s going forward and scoring goals.”

Gilmour delivered an assured midfield performance against Arsenal and set up Tariq Lamptey to score the third goal at the Emirates.

He added: “We dug in, went a goal down and showed character and personality to get ourselves back into the game and then to go on to win it.

“I was happy to assist Tariq with the goal but I thought it was a good game with some good goals.”

Edited November 28, 2022 by Mengo

[king canary 6,409]

41 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

No. He can't get into the Brighton team (who are 7th and playing well) because his competition are currently playing at the World cup: McAllister with Argentina and a player called Caisedo who has been linked with Real Madrid and Liverpool. 

You don't think the likes of Phillips and Rice have limitations? Rice will most probably play in defence when he eventually moves to Chelsea. 

Gilmour didn't have the best time at Norwich (even though, numbers wise, he outshone McLean and Normann), we all know this. But the way that some people talk about him it's like he's the reincarnation of Carlton Palmer (if he was dead. Which he isn't.)

Yeah I'm well aware of Brighton and their midfield. Now Caicedo would walk straight into the England side sure. But Gilmour isn't close to him right now. 

28 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Rice is a much better midfielder than Gilmour too. 

Like @king canary says, Gilmour's weaknesses means he doesn't get ahead of those in the England set up who have limitations. None of their weaknesses are as catastrophic in terms of tactical structure and midfield stability than Gilmours lack of pretty much everything other than being decent at passing.

This says it perfectly. Gilmour's glaring weaknesses means he essentially needs the entire midfield built around him and his strengths don't justify doing that. 

And as @kirku says, this isn't bitterness about his failure here- it is your ludicrous insistence that he'd be walking into the midfield of a World Cup semi finalist and European Championship finalist when he can't even get off the bench for Brighton. 

There is a massive middle ground between 'Gilmour isn't as bad as some Norwich fans say' (something I'd probably agree with) and 'he'd walk into the England team.'

Edited November 28, 2022 by king canary

[kirku 1,316]

Exactly

[Ken Hairy 3,055]

16 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Do you remember being beaten 0-4 at home to Hungary? How about when you went 6 games without a win leading up to the World Cup?

How about the 0-0 with USA when Tyler Adams stomped all over Bellingham, Rice and Mount?

Long gone are the days of Carrick and Scholes and Gascoigne and Robson.

A few injuries and England could have a midfield of Longstaff and Willock. Not frightening.

Still more appealing than Krankie. 

Come on enough is enough now, this nonsense trolling on here needs to stop. No one, not even Krankies parents can seriously think what you post about him. 

[TheDarkKnight 444]

1 hour ago, kirku said:

The only joke here is the assertion that "Gilmour would walk into an England midfield" that is "3 injuries away from starting Shaun Longstaff".

It's laughable.

Anyone would think that I was talking about the French or the Spanish midfield. 

30% of the EPL is English. It only stands to reason that Southgate hasn't got a deep pool.

Shaw, Maguire and Stone aren't even regulars for their clubs.

I don't really have to justify my opinion here. If people think I'm wrong, fair play. Doesn't change the fact that the England midfield gotta overrun by the USA midfield. 

Against Wales it's going to be s total scrap.

Edited November 28, 2022 by TheDarkKnight

[Mengo 757]

16 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Anyone would think that I was talking about the French or the Spanish midfield. 

30% of the EPL is English. It only stands to reason that Southgate hasn't got a deep pool.

Shaw, Maguire and Stone aren't even regulars for their clubs.

I don't really have to justify my opinion here. If people think I'm wrong, fair play. Doesn't change the fact that the England midfield gotta overrun by the USA midfield. 

Against Wales it's going to be s total scrap.

Against Wales it's going to be s total scrap.

Or possibly total Crap

[hogesar 8,079]

21 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Anyone would think that I was talking about the French or the Spanish midfield. 

Equally, anyone would think you were talking about some Champions League midfielder who's been in good form and grabbed 5 goals and 8 assists half way through this season.

Instead you're talking about Billy Gilmour who can barely get minutes off the bench for a Brighton side that will likely finish midtable. A Billy Gilmour who Brighton will delightfully allow to go on loan.

A Billy Gilmour who has played 13 minutes of football this season. He can't even be trusted as an option to rest their better players. A total of over 2000 Premier League minutes for Chelsea, Norwich and Brighton with a single assist to show for all that passing and awareness. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by hogesar

[TheDarkKnight 444]

15 minutes ago, Mengo said:

Against Wales it's going to be s total scrap.

Or possibly total Crap

lol. A little from column A and a little from column B.

[TheDarkKnight 444]

12 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Equally, anyone would think you were talking about some Champions League midfielder who's been in good form and grabbed 5 goals and 8 assists half way through this season.

Instead you're talking about Billy Gilmour who can barely get minutes off the bench for a Brighton side that will likely finish midtable. A Billy Gilmour who Brighton will delightfully allow to go on loan.

A Billy Gilmour who has played 13 minutes of football this season. He can't even be trusted as an option to rest their better players. A total of over 2000 Premier League minutes for Chelsea, Norwich and Brighton with a single assist to show for all that passing and awareness. 

It's nuanced, though. I'm actually talking about the type of midfielder that Gilmour is. Is he prime Pirlo? No. But a poundland Pirlo could probably make a difference to the England midfield.

Yep. Fair and accurate points and I can't dispute any of them.

To be fair, the Brighton fans are now calling for him to start getting more minutes, from seeing him in the cup match against Arsenal (1 assist and 93% successful passing).

[king canary 6,409]

15 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

It's nuanced, though. I'm actually talking about the type of midfielder that Gilmour is. Is he prime Pirlo? No. But a poundland Pirlo could probably make a difference to the England midfield.

But you can quite happily build a team and win games without a player of that type. England showed that in the Euro's or in the previous World Cup, Arsenal right now top the league with a pivot of Xhaka and Partey, neither of whom are a Pirlo type playmaker. A midfield of Rice, Bellingham and Mount is not missing Billy Gilmour and honestly if he wasn't Scottish this would never even be a suggestion.

[kirku 1,316]

1 hour ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Shaw, Maguire and Stone aren't even regulars for their clubs.

Shaw is first choice. Stones has only missed two league games he's been fit for. 

Quote

I don't really have to justify my opinion here. If people think I'm wrong, fair play. Doesn't change the fact that the England midfield gotta overrun by the USA midfield. 

Against Wales it's going to be s total scrap.

Gilmour wouldn't get into the US side either - so what's your point?

[TheDarkKnight 444]

53 minutes ago, king canary said:

But you can quite happily build a team and win games without a player of that type. England showed that in the Euro's or in the previous World Cup, Arsenal right now top the league with a pivot of Xhaka and Partey, neither of whom are a Pirlo type playmaker. A midfield of Rice, Bellingham and Mount is not missing Billy Gilmour and honestly if he wasn't Scottish this would never even be a suggestion.

Yeah. Of course you can win matches without that type of player, but can you win major tournaments?

Looking at the Euro final:

Jorginho: 117 touches. 94 passes - 95.9% pass success rate.

Verratti: 133 touches. 111 passes - 94.1% pass success rate

Rice: 49 touches. 25 passes - 75.8 pass success rate.

Phillips: 57 touches. 30 passes - 76.9% pass success rate.

That says it all.

[king canary 6,409]

1 minute ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Yeah. Of course you can win matches without that type of player, but can you win major tournaments?

Looking at the Euro final:

Jorginho: 117 touches. 94 passes - 95.9% pass success rate.

Verratti: 133 touches. 111 passes - 94.1% pass success rate

Rice: 49 touches. 25 passes - 75.8 pass success rate.

Phillips: 57 touches. 30 passes - 76.9% pass success rate.

That says it all.

Great. None of which is an argument for Billy Gilmour. It is an argument for a better version of him that only exists in your head.

[TheDarkKnight 444]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Great. None of which is an argument for Billy Gilmour. It is an argument for a better version of him that only exists in your head.

No. I just illustrated why England need such a player.

Phillip and Rice are too much of a muchness. 

As I said, if you disagree, then fine. You're entitled to your opinion. 

You said that Gilmour didn't have one assist for Norwich? He got 1 assist in one start for Brighton. Says it all.

[kirku 1,316]

1 minute ago, TheDarkKnight said:

No. I just illustrated why England need such a player.

Phillip and Rice are too much of a muchness. 

As I said, if you disagree, then fine. You're entitled to your opinion. 

You said that Gilmour didn't have one assist for Norwich? He got 1 assist in one start for Brighton. Says it all.

"Billy Gilmour got an assist in the Carabao Cup and that's the reason he'd walk into the England side"

It gets funnier and funnier

[kirku 1,316]

14 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Yeah. Of course you can win matches without that type of player, but can you win major tournaments?

Looking at the Euro final:

Jorginho: 117 touches. 94 passes - 95.9% pass success rate.

Verratti: 133 touches. 111 passes - 94.1% pass success rate

Rice: 49 touches. 25 passes - 75.8 pass success rate.

Phillips: 57 touches. 30 passes - 76.9% pass success rate.

That says it all.

England lost on penalties because Verratti and Jorginho (who missed) had better ball retention than Rice and Phillps?

Makes perfect sense. 

 

Edited November 28, 2022 by kirku

[TheDarkKnight 444]

5 minutes ago, kirku said:

"Billy Gilmour got an assist in the Carabao Cup and that's the reason he'd walk into the England side"

It gets funnier and funnier

Oh really? Aren't the guy who said that you could play for Scotland? (40th team in the world)

Mate, the condescending tone doesn't work on me. Didn't we go through this?

If you want to chat and debate like a groom up, have at it. If you want to stuff like "it gets funnier and funnier", or "comedy gold", etc. Just do it via PM. Or can you only do it in front of an audience?

 

[kirku 1,316]

10 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Oh really? Aren't the guy who said that you could play for Scotland? (40th team in the world)

Mate, the condescending tone doesn't work on me. Didn't we go through this?

If you want to chat and debate like a groom up, have at it. If you want to stuff like "it gets funnier and funnier", or "comedy gold", etc. Just do it via PM. Or can you only do it in front of an audience?

 

I didn't want to explicitly point out how incredibly thick you must be to not understand the point I was making in response to these comments:

Quote

Billy Gilmour would walk into the England midfield.

The major thing? No one knows. He hasn't really played enough.

I wouldn't trust him as an anchorman, as I don't think he's defensively good enough.

 

Quote

I'd walk into Scotland's midfield.

Afterall, nobody has really seen me play enough to know what my best position is, but you probably wouldn't trust me as an anchorman as I don't think I'm defensively sound enough.

Do you get it yet?

 

And, no, no matter how many times you ask, I'm not going to PM you..

Edited November 28, 2022 by kirku

[TheDarkKnight 444]

6 minutes ago, kirku said:

I didn't want to explicitly point out how incredibly thick you must be to not understand the point I was making in response to these comments:

 

Do you get it yet?

 

And, no, no matter how many times you ask, I'm not going to PM you..

What is your point? That Gilmour isn't eligible for play for England? He was before he played a competitive match for Scotland. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-star-billy-gilmour-gives-21642069.amp

Edited November 28, 2022 by TheDarkKnight

[kirku 1,316]

[king canary 6,409]

5 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

What is your point? That Gilmour isn't eligible for play for England? He was before he played a competitive match for Scotland. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-star-billy-gilmour-gives-21642069.amp

This is painful.