A Load of Squit 5,066 Posted November 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said: I said that i seemed to recall which obviously translates with you that i stated a fact. You can squirm as much as you like but your rabid desire to blame Webber was lazy, it took me about a minute to find quotes that stated it was the players desire to move north. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,657 Posted November 27, 2022 3 hours ago, A Load of Squit said: You can squirm as much as you like but your rabid desire to blame Webber was lazy, it took me about a minute to find quotes that stated it was the players desire to move north. ' Squirm ' and ' rabid desire ' is ridiculous language to use but i am sure you feel justified. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 2,389 Posted November 28, 2022 For those that prefer objective data to gut reaction/ prejudice, this suggests KM is 118th out of 443 championship midfielders by their model which is around the top quarter, which sounds about right to me. Last Championship season he was in the top 10%, but was in the bottom 15% in the Premier league last year. Given that he will not require a fee and is seen as "an experienced head" it seems a pretty sensible decision to me. Good championship player who struggles at EPL level. The idea that we should replace all our midfield and only buy premier league standard players is a bit naive. https://footystats.org/players/scotland/kenny-mclean 7 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,655 Posted November 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Badger said: For those that prefer objective data to gut reaction/ prejudice, this suggests KM is 118th out of 443 championship midfielders by their model which is around the top quarter, which sounds about right to me. Last Championship season he was in the top 10%, but was in the bottom 15% in the Premier league last year. Given that he will not require a fee and is seen as "an experienced head" it seems a pretty sensible decision to me. Good championship player who struggles at EPL level. The idea that we should replace all our midfield and only buy premier league standard players is a bit naive. https://footystats.org/players/scotland/kenny-mclean This probably confirms that whilst he may have been good enough for an automatic promotion team 2 and 4 seasons ago...he's not now His performance in this league isnt what it was..coupled by the fact he was alongside Skipp 2 seasons ago We should be looking for an upgrade on a 30 yr old who is on the wain and isnt going to get any better....not handing out 2/3 yr contracts 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spencer 1970 203 Posted November 28, 2022 1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said: This probably confirms that whilst he may have been good enough for an automatic promotion team 2 and 4 seasons ago...he's not now His performance in this league isnt what it was..coupled by the fact he was alongside Skipp 2 seasons ago We should be looking for an upgrade on a 30 yr old who is on the wain and isnt going to get any better....not handing out 2/3 yr contracts It's not always as easy as simply saying "upgrade" is it? Remember the £10m "upgrades" Tzolis and Rashica? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midlands Yellow 3,825 Posted November 28, 2022 12 minutes ago, spencer 1970 said: It's not always as easy as simply saying "upgrade" is it? Remember the £10m "upgrades" Tzolis and Rashica? It certainly isn’t when Webber’s in charge of recruiting. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
repman 616 Posted November 28, 2022 3 hours ago, Badger said: For those that prefer objective data to gut reaction/ prejudice, this suggests KM is 118th out of 443 championship midfielders by their model which is around the top quarter, which sounds about right to me. Last Championship season he was in the top 10%, but was in the bottom 15% in the Premier league last year. Given that he will not require a fee and is seen as "an experienced head" it seems a pretty sensible decision to me. Good championship player who struggles at EPL level. The idea that we should replace all our midfield and only buy premier league standard players is a bit naive. https://footystats.org/players/scotland/kenny-mclean To be fair to Kenny I'm not sure those stats tell the whole story this season. He's had a shift at left back and up until recently if he was in midfield he was playing as the deepest man. Kenny also ranks highest in the progressive passing stat, and the only other central midfielder who comes close for us is Nunez, who I think there are certainly some doubts over in the deeper positions. Hayden is way behind in this regard too, albeit much stronger on the defensive end. Gibbs has decent output in this area and I'd say possibly very good for 19 years old, but not at the level to be relied upon. Overall I think the club view the midfield as reasonably set for the next 2-3 seasons. 3 young players in Gibbs, Nunez and Sara with Hayden and Kenny as the more experienced options. That's also leaving out Sorensen who the club will have a better view of than any of us could. Not to say there won't be additions but the core is there and if the young players progress ideally then Kenny will more than likely be a depth piece sooner rather than later. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 2,389 Posted November 28, 2022 28 minutes ago, spencer 1970 said: It's not always as easy as simply saying "upgrade" is it? Remember the £10m "upgrades" Tzolis and Rashica? Not to mention PLM, Gilmour and Normann! And the thing is that none of these players would have even considered us when we in the championship - getting premier league quality players when you are in the championship is even harder than getting them once you are promoted. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 2,389 Posted November 28, 2022 1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said: This probably confirms that whilst he may have been good enough for an automatic promotion team 2 and 4 seasons ago...he's not now Around the top quartile is not that far off though and the season is only half way through, plenty of time to increase his stats. I'm sure that we do need to upgrade our playing squad, but I'm not sure that getting rid of decent players who will only cost us wages is a good idea. The club will know the "physicals" but I suspect he is fine in this capacity and again guess, that he is seen as one of the better performers "against the ball." If we get up this year, and let's face it that will require improvement, I think that the lesson we have learned from previous years is that we have to maintain some continuity and focus our purchases on two or three players that are most likely to have an impact, rather than "spread it thinly" over several. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,503 Posted November 28, 2022 Smiths quotes today alongside the previous quotes from Farke kind of underline everything that gets missed about McLean. Hes not rated by a lot of fans. A lot of fans are guilty of not seeing beyond a goal or a crunching tackle and let's be honest, there's plenty on here who have written off players and been horrifically wrong. Hes rated by the players. Having spoken to recent ex players in the past couple years they all start McLean. Other recent footballers like Hucks, Lappin and Eadie have all said the same thing. Ultimately two managers and there several different coaches have all also felt the same way. Not a Premier League player but that's for our recruitment to sort. He can certainly be a Premier League sub / reserve and it wasn't that long ago West Ham were interested. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Midlands Yellow 3,825 Posted November 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, hogesar said: Smiths quotes today alongside the previous quotes from Farke kind of underline everything that gets missed about McLean. Hes not rated by a lot of fans. A lot of fans are guilty of not seeing beyond a goal or a crunching tackle and let's be honest, there's plenty on here who have written off players and been horrifically wrong. Hes rated by the players. Having spoken to recent ex players in the past couple years they all start McLean. Other recent footballers like Hucks, Lappin and Eadie have all said the same thing. Ultimately two managers and there several different coaches have all also felt the same way. Not a Premier League player but that's for our recruitment to sort. He can certainly be a Premier League sub / reserve and it wasn't that long ago West Ham were interested. What kind of price was touted when West Ham were interested? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,503 Posted November 28, 2022 17 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said: What kind of price was touted when West Ham were interested? In the Jan window 2020 it was around £10 million I think. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shefcanary 2,341 Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) I've held back from commenting on length on this disappointing news, but Blackburn in the FA Cup has depressed me further, so i'm just going to have a rant. I'm not bothered with McLean being here now in the Championship, but it doesn't help him and it certainly doesn't help us get promotion. Playing him, and now giving him a three year contract, shows NO FÙCKING AMBITION! All his supporters accept he is not good enough to be in the starting line up for the EPL. We've known this for 4 bloody years, yet he's still seen as first on the teamsheet. That can't be right. It's the definition of insanity. That's why I have such a go at him every week, it is pure frustration. The accounts for last year were bad enough, this news is worse than that. At least Attanasio's reign is something to hold on to for a while. Edited November 28, 2022 by shefcanary 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mengo 806 Posted November 28, 2022 (edited) 8 minutes ago, shefcanary said: I've held back from commenting on length on this disappointing news, but Blackburn in the FA Cup has depressed me further, so i'm just going to have a rant. I'm not bothered with McLean being here now in the Championship, but it doesn't help him and it certainly doesn't help us get promotion. Playing him, and now giving him a three year contract, shows NO FÙCKING AMBITION! All his supporters accept he is not good enough to be in the starting line up for the EPL. We've known this for 4 bloody years, yet he's still seen as first on the teamsheet. That can't be right. It's the definition of insanity. That's why I have such a go at him every week, it is pure frustration. The accounts for last year were bad enough, this news is worse than that. At least Attanasio's reign is something to hold on to for a while. Watch the blood pressure Shef. If you haven't got one of these portable ones, then get the wife to buy you one for Xmas 😀🤣 Edited November 28, 2022 by Mengo 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kenny Foggo 1,105 Posted November 28, 2022 6 hours ago, Badger said: For those that prefer objective data to gut reaction/ prejudice, this suggests KM is 118th out of 443 championship midfielders by their model which is around the top quarter, which sounds about right to me. Last Championship season he was in the top 10%, but was in the bottom 15% in the Premier league last year. Given that he will not require a fee and is seen as "an experienced head" it seems a pretty sensible decision to me. Good championship player who struggles at EPL level. The idea that we should replace all our midfield and only buy premier league standard players is a bit naive. https://footystats.org/players/scotland/kenny-mclean Or taking up a wage and not being replaced by something better to improve a declining squad. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 2,389 Posted November 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said: Or taking up a wage and not being replaced by something better to improve a declining squad. You would have a better point if there were lots (or even one) of premier league class players available on a free who were happy move to a championship club. The truth of the matter is that newly promoted clubs find it very hard to attract players of definite PL class: it is even harder or championship clubs. We've taken an educated gamble with Sara + Nunez, I don't think that playing safe with someone that you know will give 100%, has two years PL experience and will do a job is a bad idea. I know you do, but I imagine that you probably rate McLean less highly than the current and previous management have done. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chicken 2,582 Posted November 28, 2022 3 hours ago, spencer 1970 said: It's not always as easy as simply saying "upgrade" is it? Remember the £10m "upgrades" Tzolis and Rashica? And Nunez and Sara. No one's saying he's a shoe in. If you read the article where Smith reflects this, the squad have a leadership team that are voted in by the players. McLean is in it. It's a squad game and if he slowly fades to a bench role, or back up left back role over the next two seasons we know what he can deliver when called upon. Makes sense. His replacements could already be at the club. Sara, Nunez, Gibbs and poss Hayden. Oh and the argument that he was only good because he played alongside Skipp? Go home. Shut the door and stand in the corner. I suppose Grant Holt was only good because of Wes Hoolahan. Huckerby because of Adam Drury. Bellamy because of Roberts. Pukki because of Buendia. Footy is all about finding players that work well together. We have always relied upon that more than having a team burgeoning with individual tallent. 5 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canaries north 151 Posted November 29, 2022 10 hours ago, Badger said: You would have a better point if there were lots (or even one) of premier league class players available on a free who were happy move to a championship club. The truth of the matter is that newly promoted clubs find it very hard to attract players of definite PL class: it is even harder or championship clubs. We've taken an educated gamble with Sara + Nunez, I don't think that playing safe with someone that you know will give 100%, has two years PL experience and will do a job is a bad idea. I know you do, but I imagine that you probably rate McLean less highly than the current and previous management have done. I agree with most of what you have said but saying he has 2 years PL experience is not a selling point. He has 2 years of experience knowing he is out of his depth at that level. Yes a solid if uninspiring championship player in my opinion but if we get promoted he can't be a starter in my opinion if so then we are doomed to repeat again. For now it's the right thing to do to get he signed up. Little outlay for as said a solid if uninspiring player. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Badger 2,389 Posted November 29, 2022 3 hours ago, Canaries north said: I agree with most of what you have said but saying he has 2 years PL experience is not a selling point. He has 2 years of experience knowing he is out of his depth at that level. Yes a solid if uninspiring championship player in my opinion but if we get promoted he can't be a starter in my opinion if so then we are doomed to repeat again. For now it's the right thing to do to get he signed up. Little outlay for as said a solid if uninspiring player. He is by most accounts an intelligent player and "a team man" who can contribute to the group and help them. If, promoted, we would not want to have a position whereby we we had nobody in the central midfield area with PL experience. Promoted clubs that stay up tend to do so for a variety of reasons (rarely due to massive expenditure) but because collectively they are greater than the sum of their parts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canaries north 151 Posted November 29, 2022 44 minutes ago, Badger said: He is by most accounts an intelligent player and "a team man" who can contribute to the group and help them. If, promoted, we would not want to have a position whereby we we had nobody in the central midfield area with PL experience. Promoted clubs that stay up tend to do so for a variety of reasons (rarely due to massive expenditure) but because collectively they are greater than the sum of their parts. I can agree we would always have to be greater than the sum of our parts just by the nature of the finances. To say it is better to have a player with 2 years premier League experience is not looking at the facts. He is not and at his age is never going to be good enough for the premier League. Also even though football players have very high self esteem even he must see he is a fish out of water. He will be a player another 2 years older going In to a league that he has not been good enough indivualy for twice. As said, for where we are the contract is a no brainer but if we do get promoted he should not be first choice for his position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nuff Said 4,938 Posted November 29, 2022 On 27/11/2022 at 15:25, TIL 1010 said: I said that i seemed to recall which obviously translates with you that i stated a fact. Really? As long as we say “I seem to recall” in a post we can state any old b0llocks and can’t be challenged? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FenwayFrank 2,425 Posted November 29, 2022 6 minutes ago, Nuff Said said: Really? As long as we say “I seem to recall” in a post we can state any old b0llocks and can’t be challenged? I seem to recall that McLean is better than De Bruyne 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Paddons Beard 2,352 Posted November 29, 2022 I seem to recall taking Kylie Minogue for a beer in the Queen of Iceni last week Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FenwayFrank 2,425 Posted November 29, 2022 9 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said: I seem to recall taking Kylie Minogue for a beer in the Queen of Iceni last week I seem to recall taking Kylie home after she had a beer with you 😁 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Paddons Beard 2,352 Posted November 29, 2022 1 minute ago, FenwayFrank said: I seem to recall taking Kylie home after she had a beer with you 😁 Don’t be ridiculous. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flying Dutchman 744 Posted November 29, 2022 19 hours ago, hogesar said: Smiths quotes today alongside the previous quotes from Farke kind of underline everything that gets missed about McLean. Hes not rated by a lot of fans. A lot of fans are guilty of not seeing beyond a goal or a crunching tackle and let's be honest, there's plenty on here who have written off players and been horrifically wrong. Hes rated by the players. Having spoken to recent ex players in the past couple years they all start McLean. Other recent footballers like Hucks, Lappin and Eadie have all said the same thing. Ultimately two managers and there several different coaches have all also felt the same way. Not a Premier League player but that's for our recruitment to sort. He can certainly be a Premier League sub / reserve and it wasn't that long ago West Ham were interested. It's almost like professionals within the game, players, coaches, managers, all know more about what makes a good player than randoms on a forum. Madness. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,503 Posted November 29, 2022 9 minutes ago, Flying Dutchman said: It's almost like professionals within the game, players, coaches, managers, all know more about what makes a good player than randoms on a forum. Madness. Nah, doesn't sound right 😉 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mello Yello 2,265 Posted November 29, 2022 1 hour ago, Graham Paddons Beard said: I seem to recall taking Kylie Minogue for a beer in the Queen of Iceni last week Pfft...."I should be so lucky".... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Indy 3,232 Posted November 29, 2022 2 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said: I seem to recall taking Kylie Minogue for a beer in the Queen of Iceni last week Well “batter the devil you know”. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites