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Parma Ham's gone mouldy

Mark Attanasio

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2 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Of course this is right.

It is exactly why what happens to the equity gain is so important

2) Selling is also always about who the buyer sells to next.

So what incentives exist or are offered  - visible or not, recognised by others or not, spotted by professional market risk evaluators or not - matters massively. People may or may not say or do anything to get what they want. 

Delia is doing this though @nutty nigel, the ultimate call is hers. 

As I said earlier ‘You wait 25 years for another Delia, then none come along at once’.

They waited and waited for another Delia - maybe or maybe not rejecting ‘camels coming up Carrow Road’ and who knows? Maybe a cowboy or two. 

And now the whole Norwich world could be in a stateside pocket of the owner of an American finance firm with no great links to Norwich and only a fairly recent - and secondary - interest in the sport. 
 

I do not believe that this was the exit dream. I do not believe that this was the legacy vision. I do not believe this is the ideal plan.

1) As heard at the AGM: ‘Is Attanasio’s involvement and financial input a recognition that the top level sporting ceiling of the self-sustaining model has been reached?’

Zoe Webber: ‘Yes’

Parma 

That Zoe Webber quote is confirmation of the warning Bowkett made when he stepped down as chairman in 2015, that the time was coming when the self-funding model would no longer work.

As to 2), indeed, Parma. In all the discussions about the implications – good and bad - of Attanasio taking control I hadn’t seen this crucial point being raised.

Immodestly, it allows me to drag out once more my brilliant plan, first mooted well over a decade ago, for the club to have a supporter-director with a golden share veto over certain heritage issues, including any onward sale. Precisely because of the danger of good owners selling out to bad.

Now I am not naïve enough to think this admirable idea will ever get put into practice. But if Attanasio does take over then, to misquote The Wizard of Oz, we won’t be in Norfolk any more.

Instead of owners worth a few million and with in geographical, business and financial terms rather limited horizons we will be controlled by someone worth hundreds of millions of dollars who is a player in an ultra-capitalist world where his wealth is dwarfed by that of others.

If Attanasio’s presumed takeover is a step change from what in comparison will then look like a small-beer switch from Chase to Smith and Jones et al, then a handover from Attanasio to whoever could similarly be of a different order. Or the sons will inherit, and their sons and daughters, and so on.😍

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2 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

 

Delia is doing this though @nutty nigel, the ultimate call is hers. 

As I said earlier ‘You wait 25 years for another Delia, then none come along at once’.

They waited and waited for another Delia - maybe or maybe not rejecting ‘camels coming up Carrow Road’ and who knows? Maybe a cowboy or two. 

And now the whole Norwich world could be in a stateside pocket of the owner of an American finance firm with no great links to Norwich and only a fairly recent - and secondary - interest in the sport. 
 

I do not believe that this was the exit dream. I do not believe that this was the legacy vision. I do not believe this is the ideal plan.

Parma 

They are mortal like the rest of us and nothing in life is entirely  forseeable.  Its difficult enough to control the present let alone worrying about what happens after the Grim Reaper has made his call. No plan survives very long after first contact with events.

Sometimes you just have to see where the ride takes you. Legacy visions are often spoiled by hard cold reality.

"The best laid plans 'o mice an men gang aft agley"

Edited by ricardo
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20 minutes ago, ricardo said:

They are mortal like the rest of us and nothing in life is entirely  forseeable.  Its difficult enough to control the present let alone worrying about what happens after the Grim Reaper has made his call. No plan survives very long after first contact with events.

Sometimes you just have to see where the ride takes you. Legacy visions are often spoiled by hard cold reality.

"The best laid plans 'o mice an men gang aft agley"

The best laid schemes o'mice an'men

Gay aft a-gley

An'lea'e us naught but grief an'pain

For promised pay.

Rabbie Burns.

“The best elaborated projects, whether of mice or men, often fail and bring us only sadness and suffering, instead of the promised prize”. 

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Succession policy being transparent, but also controlled, is very difficult to attain. During the early throes of self funding, Smith and Jones felt comfortable to name Nephew Tom as their successor, to a collective sigh from most on here. More recently, pre-Attanasio, there seemed less certainty that this was their plan after all, as the reality of self-funding kicked in. 

Now with Attanasio on the scene, it does seem as long as he adheres to his Brewers approach, control will pass from Smith & Jones to him. What might stop this succession is once again though, not transparent but down to "feel". 

Should Attanasio gain control, will the club be treated differently to the Brewers? My early sense is this does seem a family "project". The fact young Mike is very visible implies succession in this case is a passing of control to him. I think most people engaging on this thread will potentially be in their dotage by then, but Nutty is right to highlight succession as a concern.

As we can see at ManUre, what was expected to be control by the Glazer dynasty has turned into another dash for cash by the family. Will Mike have a similar change of heart after 20 years of family control? Much will depend of course on how successful the club is in all aspects of the project and the relationship between supporters and the family. Mike is currently social media savvy, taking note of supporters aspirations and hope, but when the going gets tough it will be easy to just log off and do his own thing. Again, as Nutty says, supporters will have very little control over this.

The Attanasio's then. A risk worth pursuing? At the moment it remains the only game in town.

Edited by shefcanary
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4 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

 

Top level football is the plaything of the super wealthy now. In contrast, our approach to try to become properly self-sustaining, with Delia behaving almost like a trustee rather than an owner, has been bordering on romantic as a struggle against the odds to do something differently.

With that said, even with the admission of defeat regarding making it to the next level without a major capital injection, it's clear that the club isn't selling out on principles in the pursuit of that capital injection; Attanasio and his kids seem like real sports enthusiasts who also happen to be incredibly good with money who have also jumped in with both feet as far as seeking to understand the club's culture and history and truly become part of it as they did at the Brewers.

Overall, in spite of the fact that I'm disappointed that progressing 'the right way' is almost conclusively proven impossible now, I'm happy that the club is still looking to progress in best way possible to get the extra resources while keeping the culture of the club rather than simply selling out to the highest bidder.

I desperately hope you are right @littleyellowbirdie and you may be. 

Though my experience is that companies often make these decisions when they at their weakest strategic point.

Buyers ‘never cry stinking fish’ and they certainly  adhere to the Italian principle of ‘Bella figura’ in all things at all times (or at least until the deal is done).

Hence @nutty nigel ‘s very salient point. 

I’ve seen lots of companies sing lots of sweet songs for an unrealised equity gain, or an opportunity to take a low risk bet for a strong upside, or to have acute nostrils for the smell of a Ferrari owner who is struggling to afford maintenance bills and petrol. 

Now is not the time to be naive or too credulous. Other than inheritance, individual wealth is typically derived from business ownership, not paper rounds.

Rich people like playthings. Attanasio is not particularly rich. As @shefcanary and @GMF have said, a serious bit of deep dive due diligence is the minimum starting point. 

Even this doesn’t prevent the next sale though. 

This is why the AGM question was so important. The dreaming has stopped. Delia’s belief - so important personally - is weakened. The facts are laid bare.

We had great people, great ideas, great momentum. We lost it all through awkward sporting and financial compromises, because we don’t have the money. 

The Annual Report 2022 states dynamically and repeatedly that top level football is the entire mission goal for the company, it drives other decisions. It is in black and white. 

So that is either true. Or it isn’t. 

One leads to Attansio. The other leads to ‘Little old Norwich’.

The wheel is come full circle indeed. 

Parma 

Edited by Parma Ham's gone mouldy
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I've said earlier on this thread that where we are now is basically where Delia, Michael and the Webbers were 12 months ago. We are trying to catch up. (And the Tom succession plan, if it ever was a plan, was dumped years ago.) The succession plan was always 'not what's best for us but what's best for the club'.

What is obvious is that losing Farke broke Delia and Michael. Norwich in 2019 was all their hopes and dreams come true. So any realisation stemmed from that. 'What's best for the club' changed with the realisation that Daniel ultimately failed.

The plan of now is probably 12 months in progress. Making sure that Foulger was 'looked after' would be part of any succession plan. I would think the interests of other shareholders who stepped up to the plate will also be part of it. 

But ultimately we will be in a new era. Something to celebrate? Maybe / maybe not. Those who see us suddenly promoted and established will likely be disappointed. But there's always our hopes and dreams...

 

 

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6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Those who see us suddenly promoted and established will likely be disappointed. But there's always our hopes and dreams...

 

 

Nobody can ever take that awayl👍

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40 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Nobody can ever take that awayl👍

Absolutely, even if the hope kills you its fun on the journey if you keep the flame alive! 

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8 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

That Zoe Webber quote is confirmation of the warning Bowkett made when he stepped down as chairman in 2015, that the time was coming when the self-funding model would no longer work.

As to 2), indeed, Parma. In all the discussions about the implications – good and bad - of Attanasio taking control I hadn’t seen this crucial point being raised.

Immodestly, it allows me to drag out once more my brilliant plan, first mooted well over a decade ago, for the club to have a supporter-director with a golden share veto over certain heritage issues, including any onward sale. Precisely because of the danger of good owners selling out to bad.

Now I am not naïve enough to think this admirable idea will ever get put into practice. But if Attanasio does take over then, to misquote The Wizard of Oz, we won’t be in Norfolk any more.

Instead of owners worth a few million and with in geographical, business and financial terms rather limited horizons we will be controlled by someone worth hundreds of millions of dollars who is a player in an ultra-capitalist world where his wealth is dwarfed by that of others.

If Attanasio’s presumed takeover is a step change from what in comparison will then look like a small-beer switch from Chase to Smith and Jones et al, then a handover from Attanasio to whoever could similarly be of a different order. Or the sons will inherit, and their sons and daughters, and so on.😍

So, kind of like a fan of the club who controls over 50% of the shares?

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23 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

So, kind of like a fan of the club who controls over 50% of the shares?

No. Someone different from and totally independent of the owners and the other directors.

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11 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

 

Top level football is the plaything of the super wealthy now. In contrast, our approach to try to become properly self-sustaining, with Delia behaving almost like a trustee rather than an owner, has been bordering on romantic as a struggle against the odds to do something differently.

With that said, even with the admission of defeat regarding making it to the next level without a major capital injection, it's clear that the club isn't selling out on principles in the pursuit of that capital injection; Attanasio and his kids seem like real sports enthusiasts who also happen to be incredibly good with money who have also jumped in with both feet as far as seeking to understand the club's culture and history and truly become part of it as they did at the Brewers.

Overall, in spite of the fact that I'm disappointed that progressing 'the right way' is almost conclusively proven impossible now, I'm happy that the club is still looking to progress in best way possible to get the extra resources while keeping the culture of the club rather than simply selling out to the highest bidder.

 

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8 minutes ago, Soldier on said:

Do we know how many other stakeholdings/shares MA bought from minority holdings. Will this come to light soon ?

We might not know for sure the number of shares he bought and from whom until the next Confirmation Statement is filed at Companies House around the time of next year's AGM. The next financial statements would not give that amount of detail, although it will tell us the total number of shares he holds as he is a director. Of course, he could volunteer all this detail before then but why would he?

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39 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

We might not know for sure the number of shares he bought and from whom until the next Confirmation Statement is filed at Companies House around the time of next year's AGM. The next financial statements would not give that amount of detail, although it will tell us the total number of shares he holds as he is a director. Of course, he could volunteer all this detail before then but why would he?

Indeed would be interesting to know how many shareholders he reached out to and whether that work is ongoing in the background . He’s not tried to take my 4 shares yet !!!

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29 minutes ago, Soldier on said:

Indeed would be interesting to know how many shareholders he reached out to and whether that work is ongoing in the background . He’s not tried to take my 4 shares yet !!!

He came round my house last night and tried to sweet talk me out of mine but I told him to clear off.

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10 minutes ago, ricardo said:

He came round my house last night and tried to sweet talk me out of mine but I told him to clear off.

I sent him after telling him to get the hell out of my gaff.

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I was a bit worried I might wake up this morning with a horses head in my bed.

Luckily it was just Mrs R.😁

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On 25/11/2022 at 10:19, GMF said:

It’s not unique to England, or football for that matter, it’s a common theme throughout the leisure industry, with multiple pricing points in an effort to attract a variety punters.

Your comments typify the stereotyping of common premium pricing practices, but totally ignores that the majority of fans are still catered for.

There’s a wider issue of the club’s specific renewal process, which actively encourages season tickets and the expense of the casual fans, but that’s a separate matter.

According to Maguire, Bayern Munich make as much money from Commercial seats and boxes as from general admission but offer a lowest season ticket price of 140 euros. Could be a useful reference point in terms of the Trusts enquiry regarding subsidised tickets.

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1 hour ago, essex canary said:

According to Maguire, Bayern Munich make as much money from Commercial seats and boxes as from general admission but offer a lowest season ticket price of 140 euros. Could be a useful reference point in terms of the Trusts enquiry regarding subsidised tickets.

And I would not be surprised if the ticket allowed travel to the game on public transport. Many moons ago I played in a five a side competition in Hamburg. Our team went to the Hamburg v Werder Bremen game while we were there and our match tickets allowed us to travel on public transport to get to the game. As an aside although we had seats we took the opportunity to stand on the terrace for a while. As another aside food and beer was served whilst in your seat and the space between seat rows were such that you did not have to stand up to let somebody past, made me realise how short changed British fans are in comparison............

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On 24/11/2022 at 16:52, PurpleCanary said:

That was arguably true, when the assumption was that the whole cost would have to be met by external debt. And the mantra was that all available money had to go into the squad. But there are now potential ways of reducing what would be owed externally well below 100 per cent.

And there are two realities. That when the club is doing well the capacity at Carrow Road is simply too low. And that, as the doubling of the South Stand showed, in the long run extra capacity, even if not fully utilised all the time, or even any of the time, represents profit the club would not otherwise have.

It doesn't seem to have got much attention but Davitt has done an interview with Dan Goroff, apparently a Canary fan, who was for many years a senior executive with the Philadelphia Phillies baseball team, on Attanasio and what he might do with Norwich City. In particular he talks about increasing revenue:

"In MLB there is a fairer share [compared with the Premier League] between the 30 teams and that is something Attanasio would understand. But he will have done his homework and know what he is getting into. But it would appear some of the revenue streams he can rely on in baseball are not going to exist.

"So you are then left with areas of commercial activity that might translate, whether it be what he has done in Milwaukee or from baseball more generally. I don't doubt for a minute they haven't given this some thought. But for me, in order of importance, the first thing you look at is the feasibility of increasing capacity at Carrow Road.

"I think a team that sells out 26,000 tickets or so each game could probably expand their capacity by 5,000 to 7,000. Obviously that comes at a cost in the short term and there is the structural challenge of building new stands or re-developing stands, or sections within stands, and if you could do that you include luxury suites. I can't emphasise how valuable those suites are, even to a community the size of Norwich, and how much revenue is generated by the sale of those seats. At the same time, you might be able to create group rooms where you could go out to church groups, school groups, businesses, and have them bring 50 of their customers or their employees or their students and have a day at the ball park."

Of course at the moment there is an argument about whether the club will continue to have capacity or near-capacity crowds, and Goroff probably isn't taking into account the possibility of increased live streams.

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41 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

It doesn't seem to have got much attention but Davitt has done an interview with Dan Goroff, apparently a Canary fan, who was for many years a senior executive with the Philadelphia Phillies baseball team, on Attanasio and what he might do with Norwich City. In particular he talks about increasing revenue:

"In MLB there is a fairer share [compared with the Premier League] between the 30 teams and that is something Attanasio would understand. But he will have done his homework and know what he is getting into. But it would appear some of the revenue streams he can rely on in baseball are not going to exist.

"So you are then left with areas of commercial activity that might translate, whether it be what he has done in Milwaukee or from baseball more generally. I don't doubt for a minute they haven't given this some thought. But for me, in order of importance, the first thing you look at is the feasibility of increasing capacity at Carrow Road.

"I think a team that sells out 26,000 tickets or so each game could probably expand their capacity by 5,000 to 7,000. Obviously that comes at a cost in the short term and there is the structural challenge of building new stands or re-developing stands, or sections within stands, and if you could do that you include luxury suites. I can't emphasise how valuable those suites are, even to a community the size of Norwich, and how much revenue is generated by the sale of those seats. At the same time, you might be able to create group rooms where you could go out to church groups, school groups, businesses, and have them bring 50 of their customers or their employees or their students and have a day at the ball park."

Of course at the moment there is an argument about whether the club will continue to have capacity or near-capacity crowds, and Goroff probably isn't taking into account the possibility of increased live streams.

It's not rocket science this.

Some on here recognised this had to be done once the proposed tightening of FFP wage ratios was announced.

Some indeed (moi) argued it should have been done straight after the success of the Colney Bond proved there is finding support for such a rebuild. To not have started then now looks almost criminal on the part of the existing board and executive, certainly negligent, given what other clubs have done in the interim.

The argument against on the basis there isn't the demand only holds up if we get relegated to League One (which some on here secretly crave). It has been proven time and again once you provide the extra capacity at a club where season tickets sell out regularly, new people are prepared to fill the space. Another argument re. affordability for existing and new fans is fading already. If started now the cost of living crisis will have dissipated by the time the re-development is complete.

Of course there is opposition from the City Standers but they can be relocated in a well developed and designed scheme.

In my view Attanasio has invested at the right time to ride the crest that will result. 

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The article states that at the Brewers an average 30,000 gate delivers $100 million Total non-broadcasting Income per year. If converted to relative earnings perhaps £50 million in our terms. That is 50% more than the £33 million that NCFC achieved in the PL last season. 

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2 hours ago, essex canary said:

The article states that at the Brewers an average 30,000 gate delivers $100 million Total non-broadcasting Income per year. If converted to relative earnings perhaps £50 million in our terms. That is 50% more than the £33 million that NCFC achieved in the PL last season. 

There are 80 ish home games in baseball. Thats why matchday income is larger. 

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21 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

It doesn't seem to have got much attention but Davitt has done an interview with Dan Goroff, apparently a Canary fan, who was for many years a senior executive with the Philadelphia Phillies baseball team, on Attanasio and what he might do with Norwich City. In particular he talks about increasing revenue:

"In MLB there is a fairer share [compared with the Premier League] between the 30 teams and that is something Attanasio would understand. But he will have done his homework and know what he is getting into. But it would appear some of the revenue streams he can rely on in baseball are not going to exist.

"So you are then left with areas of commercial activity that might translate, whether it be what he has done in Milwaukee or from baseball more generally. I don't doubt for a minute they haven't given this some thought. But for me, in order of importance, the first thing you look at is the feasibility of increasing capacity at Carrow Road.

"I think a team that sells out 26,000 tickets or so each game could probably expand their capacity by 5,000 to 7,000. Obviously that comes at a cost in the short term and there is the structural challenge of building new stands or re-developing stands, or sections within stands, and if you could do that you include luxury suites. I can't emphasise how valuable those suites are, even to a community the size of Norwich, and how much revenue is generated by the sale of those seats. At the same time, you might be able to create group rooms where you could go out to church groups, school groups, businesses, and have them bring 50 of their customers or their employees or their students and have a day at the ball park."

Of course at the moment there is an argument about whether the club will continue to have capacity or near-capacity crowds, and Goroff probably isn't taking into account the possibility of increased live streams.

I think what the interview alludes to - something which is often overlooked and in some ways anathema to social media dynamics - is that multiple seemingly conflicting views can actually co-exist. 

In the parlance of this board ‘happy clapping’ and ‘pant wetting’ are not only not opposites, they can exist simultaneously and both be true of a single event

The Goroff interview highlights how this might be true of Attanasio. His approach, motivations and objectives. 

He may simultaneously spot an under-valued asset and want to have fun with his family via Norwich City. 

He may approach some issues with the excited fresh eyes of a young fan, whilst also applying ruthless risk analytics to profit opportunity. 

He may have the idea of long-term trustee ownership to be handed down to future lineal generations, whilst also recognising that he can later be ‘forced’ to accept the higher wealth of an American newcomer ‘because he doesn’t have the funds to compete’. 

He may sell at a loss or at limited personal gain because he loves the club so much, only to find that down the line someone else cashes in the fortune he helped to create. He may conversely buy cheap and sell high despite that ‘love’. 

He may buy a football club because he has made some money and just feels it would be a brilliant thing to do. He may contemporarily think the timing is good, the asset undervalued, the inherent equity gain unrealised and that the opportunity exists for some relatively low-scale investment to increase asset value reasonably quickly, with some very high upsides if faster-than-expected top level ascension is achieved.

He may even have an idea of who might buy such as asset (at a higher price) if such groundwork was done first. He may not have even considered such a thing, so in love with football was he. 

Parma 

Edited by Parma Ham's gone mouldy
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2 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

I think what the interview alludes to - something which is often overlooked and in some ways anathema to social media dynamics - is that multiple seemingly conflicting views can actually co-exist. 

In the parlance of this board ‘happy clapping’ and ‘pant wetting’ are not only not opposites, they can exist simultaneously and both be true of a single event

The Goroff interview highlights how this might be true of Attanasio. His approach, motivations and objectives. 

He may simultaneously spot an under-valued asset and want to have fun with his family via Norwich City. 

He may approach some issues with the excited fresh eyes of a young fan, whilst also applying ruthless risk analytics to profit opportunity. 

He may have the idea of long-term trustee ownership to be handed down to future lineal generations, whilst also recognising that he can later be ‘forced’ to accept the higher wealth of an American newcomer ‘because he doesn’t have the funds to compete’. 

He may sell at a loss or at limited personal gain because he loves the club so much, only to find that down the line someone else cashes in the fortune he helped to create. He may conversely buy cheap and sell high despite that ‘love’. 

He may buy a football club because he has made some money and just feels it would be a brilliant thing to do. He may contemporarily think the timing is good, the asset undervalued, the inherent equity gain unrealised and that the opportunity exists for some relatively low-scale investment to increase asset value reasonably quickly, with some very high upsides if faster-than-expected top level ascension is achieved.

He may even have an idea of who might buy such as asset (at a higher price) if such groundwork was done first. He may not have even considered such a thing, so in love with football was he. 

Parma 

Attanasio will find fun in making money as well as applying risk analytics in a new environment. I concur it will be a mix of fun and applying business acumen with his family to this project. It is only my view but having seen the interview with him and his son. I do tend to see this as being something for Mike to get his teeth into, rather than Mark himself. We await to see how much one or the other is in Norwich over the coming years.

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2 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

I think what the interview alludes to - something which is often overlooked and in some ways anathema to social media dynamics - is that multiple seemingly conflicting views can actually co-exist. 

In the parlance of this board ‘happy clapping’ and ‘pant wetting’ are not only not opposites, they can exist simultaneously and both be true of a single event

The Goroff interview highlights how this might be true of Attanasio. His approach, motivations and objectives. 

He may simultaneously spot an under-valued asset and want to have fun with his family via Norwich City. 

He may approach some issues with the excited fresh eyes of a young fan, whilst also applying ruthless risk analytics to profit opportunity. 

He may have the idea of long-term trustee ownership to be handed down to future lineal generations, whilst also recognising that he can later be ‘forced’ to accept the higher wealth of an American newcomer ‘because he doesn’t have the funds to compete’. 

He may sell at a loss or at limited personal gain because he loves the club so much, only to find that down the line someone else cashes in the fortune he helped to create. He may conversely buy cheap and sell high despite that ‘love’. 

He may buy a football club because he has made some money and just feels it would be a brilliant thing to do. He may contemporarily think the timing is good, the asset undervalued, the inherent equity gain unrealised and that the opportunity exists for some relatively low-scale investment to increase asset value reasonably quickly, with some very high upsides if faster-than-expected top level ascension is achieved.

He may even have an idea of who might buy such as asset (at a higher price) if such groundwork was done first. He may not have even considered such a thing, so in love with football was he. 

Parma 

Absolutely. I don't think I've ever known anyone who could be summed up as one thing and one thing only or anyone who never indulged in conflicting thoughts or actions. In the real world such seeming contradictions, such false antitheses, are mutually inclusive rather than exclusive.

Not least because at different times varying circumstances (for the person concerned and for the potential opportunity) may dictate action - or inaction. The "events, dear boy" explanation of life can be overused (probably overused it myself) but there is a truth there.

Supposedly Attanasio spent a whole decade looking to get into English football. All the way through those 10 years it could be inferred he was so cautious he would never take the plunge. Right up to the moment he did.

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55 minutes ago, The Raptor said:

There are 80 ish home games in baseball. Thats why matchday income is larger. 

Very much this.

 

It is very difficult to make truly accurate financial comparisons between Brewers & NCFC, but here are the best figures I can find:

 

Season income:  NCFC (in the PL) =  GBP £134m         Brewers = GBP £221m

Income / by fans attending home games:  NCFC =  £263          Brewers = £200

TV income / by fans attending home games:  NCFC = £92       Brewers = £44

Ticket income / by fans attending home games:  NCFC = £21       Brewers = £24.76 (based on Philly guy’s USD30 average)

 

So NCFC are doing pretty well, in terms of revenue per seat.

 

Things the guy from Philly didn't quite get right:

- Milwaukee's metropolitan population of 1.5m is some 60% larger than Norfolk's 900k.
- Building an extended Main Stand is absolutely not a "short term" cost. Each new seat could cost some £8,000, meaning it would need to occupied for c.200 matches before paying for itself.  (I’ll also bet he doesn’t understand that public-subsidy is virtually unheard-of for new-build football stadia in the UK)

 - He suggests car parking is a valuable revenue-stream. It may be in the US, but I can’t see any new car parks being built around Carrow Road!

 

 

 

 

 

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@PurpleCanary ‘events dear boy’ events absolutely yes, though certainly not the ‘que sera, sera’ predestination absolutism of others.

You do not have to hit every iceberg that you initially steer towards. 

This is a monumentally important decision in the very history of Norwich City. This decision could easily be a very notable fork in the historic road. I make a living from foresightism, not hindsightism. Those who complain that righteous views of others are post hoc, miss the importance of proctor hoc discussions like this one. 

There is a rather strange Weltschmerzen weariness about it on here, when other -seemingly rather trivial - issues create perhaps ill-deserved animation. 

The ‘who owns the club is above my head’ mentality is rather odd. 

Whose club is it?

Parma

Edited by Parma Ham's gone mouldy
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1 hour ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

@PurpleCanary ‘events dear boy’ events absolutely yes, though certainly not the ‘que sera, sera’ predestination absolutism of others.

You do not have to hit every iceberg that you initially steer towards. 

Thia is a monumentally important decision in the very history of Norwich City. This decision could easily be a very notable fork in the historic road. I make a living from foresightism, not hindsightism. Those who complain that righteous views of others are post hoc, miss the importance of proctor hoc discussions like this one. 

There is a rather strange Weltschmerzen weariness about it on here, when other -seemingly rather trivial - issues create perhaps ill-deserved animation. 

The ‘who owns the club is above my head’ mentality is rather odd. 

Whose club is it?

Parma

This really is an excellent thread.

The foresightism on here seems to assume that this has to be a good fork in the road and taking ownership out of Norfolk and indeed the UK has to be a good thing. Let's hope the later hindsightism on here agrees. 

 

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