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Pyro Pete

McLean to Rangers

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9 minutes ago, ridgeman said:

Didn't Mark Rivers once say he couldn't understand how McLean was picked week after week and he knows more about football than most on here.

No disrespect to Rivvo who is an entertaining listen as a summariser but I'm not sure his knowledge of modern day football is up to scratch really.

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I can actually see this happening.

It seems to be the Rangers way; bringing in over-the-hill players who weren't even that good when they were in their prime: Steve Davis, Scott Arfield.

Kenny McLean ticks all the boxes.

Can't believe he's only 30! It's like he's been around forever. 

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19 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

No disrespect to Rivvo who is an entertaining listen as a summariser but I'm not sure his knowledge of modern day football is up to scratch really.

Considering he doesn't understand why teams pass the ball around the back, and that's after having watched Farkes two title seasons, you might be onto something.

Both Eadie and Lappin and the current playing staff along with a couple of recent ex players all say they would have Kenny in their team.

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I'm a bit concerned that some people still mention Sorensen as an option as if he is better than McLean. I don't wish to be harsh on the lad, but Sorensen is yet to be as consistent to a level near to McLean's. If he had been, he would have been starting regularly for the past two seasons. He wasn't first choice this season either.

He is 24, 25 in March, so he has time on his side, but if you gave me a choice right now between him and McLean, I go McLean.

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27 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

No disrespect to Rivvo who is an entertaining listen as a summariser but I'm not sure his knowledge of modern day football is up to scratch really.

To be fair, he does often caveat with words to that effect. "Call me/I might be old fashioned but..." 

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Just now, chicken said:

I'm a bit concerned that some people still mention Sorensen as an option as if he is better than McLean. I don't wish to be harsh on the lad, but Sorensen is yet to be as consistent to a level near to McLean's. If he had been, he would have been starting regularly for the past two seasons. He wasn't first choice this season either.

He is 24, 25 in March, so he has time on his side, but if you gave me a choice right now between him and McLean, I go McLean.

Sorenson has never had a run of games. Kenny has. Until Sorenson plays 25 or so games on the bounce in a season, I'll keep calling for him over Kenny... 

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3 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Sorenson has never had a run of games. Kenny has. Until Sorenson plays 25 or so games on the bounce in a season, I'll keep calling for him over Kenny... 

Hahahaha... the literal worse argument ever.

That guy, you know, in the reserves, what's his name? Yeah, him, he's better, because I've hardly seem him play...

I'm not even sure whether you are serious... no, you can't be... oh, you are? Oh dear.

Can I just say then, that Saxon Earley is clearly better than the pair of them, I've never seen him play once, but by this logic, he is therefore better than any CM I don't like for whatever reason my silly brain decides to make up.

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16 minutes ago, chicken said:

I'm a bit concerned that some people still mention Sorensen as an option as if he is better than McLean. I don't wish to be harsh on the lad, but Sorensen is yet to be as consistent to a level near to McLean's. If he had been, he would have been starting regularly for the past two seasons. He wasn't first choice this season either.

He is 24, 25 in March, so he has time on his side, but if you gave me a choice right now between him and McLean, I go McLean.

Different positions, really. McLean's more box-to-box. Sorensen should be in the holding position, ideally alongside another who's a pure blocker. He's suffered from when a chance has looked like it will crop up, he's got injured.

Personally, I'd like to see how we get on for a few games with Hayden and one of Lungi and Gibbs as a defensive midfield two. I do think Smith sets his midfield up to be a shade too attacking but the resulting lack of shape means there's not quite the foundation in place on which attacks can be built.

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7 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Different positions, really. McLean's more box-to-box. Sorensen should be in the holding position, ideally alongside another who's a pure blocker. He's suffered from when a chance has looked like it will crop up, he's got injured.

Personally, I'd like to see how we get on for a few games with Hayden and one of Lungi and Gibbs as a defensive midfield two. I do think Smith sets his midfield up to be a shade too attacking but the resulting lack of shape means there's not quite the foundation in place on which attacks can be built.

I could be wrong, but Sorensen came here as a CM, he'd scored for his previous club. Farke then was considering him for a number of roles as he had played CB as well as DM.

I'll be honest, as harsh as this may sound, if Sorensen is a DM, then he's not going to get that position either. If you say one of him or Gibbs alongside Hayden it has to be Gibbs all day long. His range of passing is better.

Anyway, back to the point at hand, McLean has been played as one of two alongside Skipp etc in the past. It's the primary position he has played for us because of his engine, he is the double in double pivot. If we are playing two and one next to Hayden, then McLean and Gibbs both get the nod ahead of Sorensen for me.

Like I said, he's 24 and still has time to prove me wrong - unlike some, I actually enjoy seeing players prove me wrong, so long as it is for us. 😉 

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6 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Go on then..name a worse one

Is this all top flight or just PL

 I'll have a go at PL...

Daryl Sutch

Rob Ullathorne 

Piere Lees - Melou 

Milo Rashica 

Johann Elmander 

Ben Gibson 

Colin Woodthorpe 

Billy Gilmour 

Mathias Normann

Mike Sheron 

If it's all top flight then far too many to list 😃

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

It was just regular starting midfielders...of which your list contains 3

Normann and Less Melou ..both better than McLean

...and Gilmour , borderline

Was it?

I didn't see that.

Was it all top flight or just PL?

 

Edited by nutty nigel
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32 minutes ago, chicken said:

I could be wrong, but Sorensen came here as a CM, he'd scored for his previous club. Farke then was considering him for a number of roles as he had played CB as well as DM.

I'll be honest, as harsh as this may sound, if Sorensen is a DM, then he's not going to get that position either. If you say one of him or Gibbs alongside Hayden it has to be Gibbs all day long. His range of passing is better.

Anyway, back to the point at hand, McLean has been played as one of two alongside Skipp etc in the past. It's the primary position he has played for us because of his engine, he is the double in double pivot. If we are playing two and one next to Hayden, then McLean and Gibbs both get the nod ahead of Sorensen for me.

Like I said, he's 24 and still has time to prove me wrong - unlike some, I actually enjoy seeing players prove me wrong, so long as it is for us. 😉 

Sorensen was a defensive midfielder but with a utility bent, having played centre-half for Denmark youth teams. No-one expected him to take up the baton at left-back and be so accomplished with it when he had to go there though. Agree that Gibbs has a better range of passing but would also say Lungi has a better positional sense. Gibbs might have a bit more box-to-box in him as he looks a bit quicker both in terms of running speed and also in speed of thought when moving the ball around.

Lungi's positional sense is why I'd personally put him ahead of McLean in the double pivot, and he's usually one of our best tacklers. I think McLean's wasted there a bit. He looks better in a diamond (and particularly on the left-hand side of it) where he can charge a bit with someone behind him, and IIRC was more of a number 10 at Aberdeen.

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28 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

It was just regular starting midfielders...of which your list contains 3

Normann and Less Melou ..both better than McLean

...and Gilmour , borderline

Normann "I'm a tough tackling ball winning DM" snaps on a gentle breeze, positioning all over the place but can hit a nice long ball every now and then?

Lees-Melou looked far better as an AM but generally struggled to get into games earlier last season. Both "could" have been better than McLean - neither delivered 'better' on a consistent basis.

As Nutty says, you looking for just top flight?

- Trybull and Leitner. If you disagree, you can blame Farke on those.

 

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Just now, TheGunnShow said:

Sorensen was a defensive midfielder but with a utility bent, having played centre-half for Denmark youth teams. No-one expected him to take up the baton at left-back and be so accomplished with it when he had to go there though. Agree that Gibbs has a better range of passing but would also say Lungi has a better positional sense. Gibbs might have a bit more box-to-box in him as he looks a bit quicker both in terms of running speed and also in speed of thought when moving the ball around.

Lungi's positional sense is why I'd personally put him ahead of McLean in the double pivot, and he's usually one of our best tacklers. I think McLean's wasted there a bit. He looks better in a diamond (and particularly on the left-hand side of it) where he can charge a bit with someone behind him, and IIRC was more of a number 10 at Aberdeen.

Yeah, no.

You see what you did there? The double pivot requires one out and out DM eg: Tettey/Skipp and one more traditional CM who plays "holding" but can also break forwards.

So on the one hand you have said that Sorensen is a DM and does not compete with McLean as different players, and on the other you say he would get ahead of Gibbs or Mclean for the spot alongside Hayden.

That would be a straight two DM.

It's worth noting that Farke used Reed, Skipp, Trybull and Tettey in the out and out DM role of the two and played Leitner, Vrancic, Rupp and McLean in the 2nd role alongside them. It's at this point he said that Vrancic didn't really have the legs for that role anymore and was probably more a No.10 as a result.

That to me says it all. That 2nd player needs to be box to box.

Sorensen is good defensively, and defensively positionally. But he isn't going to be played alongside Hayden, he's back up to him. If you played the two, we'd weaken the ability in the middle to move the ball, or for one of the two to bring the ball forwards as Gibbs has done, and actually how McLean does.

If you were to play the two, it would be with a deeper lying middle of an attacking 3 behind the striker who is collecting those short balls, turning, or looking to knock it wide and hopefully progress up the pitch.

That said, Smith has also gone with the likes of Nunez, Sara and Gibbs alongside Hayden so far, again, all of those drive with the ball and pass the ball.

In any case, that wasn't the challenge. I'd still start McLean over Sorensen.

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8 minutes ago, chicken said:

Yeah, no.

You see what you did there? The double pivot requires one out and out DM eg: Tettey/Skipp and one more traditional CM who plays "holding" but can also break forwards.

So on the one hand you have said that Sorensen is a DM and does not compete with McLean as different players, and on the other you say he would get ahead of Gibbs or Mclean for the spot alongside Hayden.

That would be a straight two DM.

It's worth noting that Farke used Reed, Skipp, Trybull and Tettey in the out and out DM role of the two and played Leitner, Vrancic, Rupp and McLean in the 2nd role alongside them. It's at this point he said that Vrancic didn't really have the legs for that role anymore and was probably more a No.10 as a result.

That to me says it all. That 2nd player needs to be box to box.

Sorensen is good defensively, and defensively positionally. But he isn't going to be played alongside Hayden, he's back up to him. If you played the two, we'd weaken the ability in the middle to move the ball, or for one of the two to bring the ball forwards as Gibbs has done, and actually how McLean does.

If you were to play the two, it would be with a deeper lying middle of an attacking 3 behind the striker who is collecting those short balls, turning, or looking to knock it wide and hopefully progress up the pitch.

That said, Smith has also gone with the likes of Nunez, Sara and Gibbs alongside Hayden so far, again, all of those drive with the ball and pass the ball.

In any case, that wasn't the challenge. I'd still start McLean over Sorensen.

I disagree a bit with the team as it stands as even with Hayden as a purely defensive midfielder, we still look a bit too easily overran in the middle of the park so your premise of one pure DM and one that can break forwards is simply one version of the double pivot and not necessarily how the double pivot has to be played. However, you then mention the bit I highlighted in bold.

That role you mention has Sara's or indeed Nunez's name all over it. Heck, even McLean's name looks good on that one as that makes use of his engine and his deceptive little changes of speed.

Furthermore, you mentioned the use of Skipp, which is fine, but then we're having to mention Buendia's excellent defensive contribution. No other attacking player in our ranks came remotely close to providing what Emi did in defence, so I would say we could only get away with the one pure DM and one freer one in the double pivot partially due to because of Emi's defensive work.

As we are now without that, I maintain we need a second DM that is less likely to stray too far away from defence. This puts the onus on the full-backs to get up and provide width and easier balls for the double pivot.

I see what you're trying to say, I just get the impression you think a double pivot can only be played one way.

Edited by TheGunnShow

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3 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

I can actually see this happening.

It seems to be the Rangers way; bringing in over-the-hill players who weren't even that good when they were in their prime: Steve Davis, Scott Arfield.

Kenny McLean ticks all the boxes.

Can't believe he's only 30! It's like he's been around forever. 

Steve Davis was class in his prime, problem is that was a decade ago.

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9 hours ago, chicken said:

Hahahaha... the literal worse argument ever.

That guy, you know, in the reserves, what's his name? Yeah, him, he's better, because I've hardly seem him play...

I'm not even sure whether you are serious... no, you can't be... oh, you are? Oh dear.

Can I just say then, that Saxon Earley is clearly better than the pair of them, I've never seen him play once, but by this logic, he is therefore better than any CM I don't like for whatever reason my silly brain decides to make up.

But I have seen Sorenson play.

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8 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Is this all top flight or just PL

 I'll have a go at PL...

Daryl Sutch

Rob Ullathorne 

Piere Lees - Melou 

Milo Rashica 

Johann Elmander 

Ben Gibson 

Colin Woodthorpe 

Billy Gilmour 

Mathias Normann

Mike Sheron 

If it's all top flight then far too many to list 😃

 

 

 

 

 

None of those are worse than Kenny.

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If we're still in the promotion mix come January then in my view it would be risky if not reckless to part with Kenny mid-season. There are still injuries and suspensions to be had, perhaps even a few cup games to cover!

Unless Rangers provide a suitable transfer fee then there's no point in allowing him to leave. Next season is another matter and he will probably move on.

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1 hour ago, hogesar said:

It's a shame that Kenny is clearly a bit of a "player" off the pitch as well as on it. It's quite clear he's f*cked a few fan's mrs' going by the weird hyperbolic nonsense backed up by nothing on here. 

The fact it's backed up by nothing and the goalposts are being moved every 2 minutes suggests that the majority on here defending Kenny are in the right.

Oh, that and the fact two coaching teams and management have picked him regularly for us both in title winning championship seasons and Premier League seasons. Oh, and the fact the likes of Lappin and Eadie would have him in the team every week. Oh and the fact if you speak to any recent ex-player like Russel Martin they'd have him in the team too.

But It's ok, some bloke from Dereham who once accidentally ended up refereeing on Mulbarton Common as he was walking his dog is the one who knows better 🙂

 

One step from football into the gutter because people don't agree with your opinion. Wonder if McLean would invite you to court to substantiate your facts could be costly.

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2 minutes ago, ridgeman said:

One step from football into the gutter because people don't agree with your opinion. Wonder if McLean would invite you to court to substantiate your facts could be costly.

Haha, get a f*cking grip for crying out loud 😂😂

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1 hour ago, hogesar said:

It's a shame that Kenny is clearly a bit of a "player" off the pitch as well as on it. It's quite clear he's f*cked a few fan's mrs' going by the weird hyperbolic nonsense backed up by nothing on here. 

The fact it's backed up by nothing and the goalposts are being moved every 2 minutes suggests that the majority on here defending Kenny are in the right.

Oh, that and the fact two coaching teams and management have picked him regularly for us both in title winning championship seasons and Premier League seasons. Oh, and the fact the likes of Lappin and Eadie would have him in the team every week. Oh and the fact if you speak to any recent ex-player like Russel Martin they'd have him in the team too.

But It's ok, some bloke from Dereham who once accidentally ended up refereeing on Mulbarton Common as he was walking his dog is the one who knows better 🙂

 

There’s only one person posting here who’s imagined the paragraph one scenario, as he strokes Kenny’s hair. 

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11 hours ago, chicken said:

I could be wrong, but Sorensen came here as a CM, he'd scored for his previous club. Farke then was considering him for a number of roles as he had played CB as well as DM.

I'll be honest, as harsh as this may sound, if Sorensen is a DM, then he's not going to get that position either. If you say one of him or Gibbs alongside Hayden it has to be Gibbs all day long. His range of passing is better.

Anyway, back to the point at hand, McLean has been played as one of two alongside Skipp etc in the past. It's the primary position he has played for us because of his engine, he is the double in double pivot. If we are playing two and one next to Hayden, then McLean and Gibbs both get the nod ahead of Sorensen for me.

Like I said, he's 24 and still has time to prove me wrong - unlike some, I actually enjoy seeing players prove me wrong, so long as it is for us. 😉 

Personally I think that Sorenson has failed to make the grade. He's got nowhere enough bite or determination. He's tidy enough but he's frankly a bit soft 

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36 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Personally I think that Sorenson has failed to make the grade. He's got nowhere enough bite or determination. He's tidy enough but he's frankly a bit soft 

I agree. He was signed under Farke's time here and even he couldn't get him into the side ahead of midfielders such as Kenny.

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