Sargent won't be around for long then....

[dylanisabaddog 4,874]

"Scoring a goal before the World Cup helps my confidence a lot," he said, "so (I'm) very happy to get one. Everybody wants to showcase themselves, because every club in the world will be watching.

Hmmmm. I can remember when playing in the World Cup meant a little more than selling yourself. I despair. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

1 minute ago, dylanisabaddog said:

"Scoring a goal before the World Cup helps my confidence a lot," he said, "so (I'm) very happy to get one. Everybody wants to showcase themselves, because every club in the world will be watching.

Hmmmm. I can remember when playing in the World Cup meant a little more than selling yourself. I despair. 

I won't be watching this World Cup at all. It should not be in Qatar at all.

[The Real Buh 3,423]

Oh, he is very much in the shop window.

Disco Stu will probably sell him for a loss

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Imagine being in a World Cup squad but being content to play for a side which is sliding towards mid-table in the Championship.

Sargent has a winning mentality in a team full of perpetual losers.

Of course he wants off, I'd want off if I had to play in this dreadful Dean Smith side too. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I won't be watching this World Cup at all. It should not be in Qatar at all.

Why wasn't there this level of outrage when Russia held it in 2018.

Russia was 11th worst in the world for human rights abuses in the year 2018, Qatar is 88th in the year 2022.

People seem to have more of an issue with human rights issues if they occur in a brown country than they do a white one. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[king canary 7,580]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Why wasn't there this level of outrage when Russia held it in 2018.

Russia was 11th worst in the world for human rights abuses in the year 2018, Qatar is 88th in the year 2022.

People seem to have more of an issue with human rights issues if they occur in a brown country than they do a white one. 

If you didn't see outrage over Russia hosting you didn't look very hard.

There is also the thorny issue of the conditions migrant workers are working in to make the world cup happen. 

[A Load of Squit 5,134]

1 hour ago, The Real Buh said:

Oh, he is very much in the shop window.

Disco Stu will probably sell him for a loss

It's been the case for many years that every player we sign is in the shop window.

Webber has reputation of getting excellent deals when sell players.

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

16 minutes ago, king canary said:

If you didn't see outrage over Russia hosting you didn't look very hard.

There is also the thorny issue of the conditions migrant workers are working in to make the world cup happen. 

I don't feel very easy about Qatar hosting it either.

But then South Africa hosted also, and that has issues too. Brazil hosted, look at the division in Brazil now and the police shootings in the favelas.

Football is a truly global sport, can't host World Cups in Europe and North America every time, otherwise might as well call it the Caucasian Cup, and the reality is that they cost so much to host that anybody who can cobble together a bid has to be seriously considered.

I don't think it would go down too well if the UK government announced it was hosting and pumping £10bn into building new stadiums etc here whilst there is a £50bn black hole to fill with tax rises and public service cuts. 

It was, by the way, essentially illegal to be gay in the UK when England hosted the World Cup in 1966. It was the following year in 1967 when the Sexual Offences Act came into play which made life easier for homosexuals. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[dylanisabaddog 4,874]

16 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

It's been the case for many years that every player we sign is in the shop window.

Webber has reputation of getting excellent deals when sell players.

 

It wasn't a comment on our club. It was aimed at the attitude of some modern day footballers to representing their country in what should be the greatest sporting event in the world. 

Compare and contrast to James Maddison who tweeted that playing for his country at a World Cup is what he dreamed of as a child 

Edited November 15, 2022 by dylanisabaddog

[dylanisabaddog 4,874]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I won't be watching this World Cup at all. It should not be in Qatar at all.

I understand your attitude completely but I'm afraid that people not tuning in won't change anything. Football at the highest level is corrupt and always will be. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

3 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

I understand your attitude completely but I'm afraid that people not tuning in won't change anything. Football at the highest level is corrupt and always will be. 

It will. Lower ratings means lower prices for advertising means lower revenue for broadcasters means lower bids for broadcasting rights in the future if FIFA don't get their act together.

Edited November 15, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

46 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Why wasn't there this level of outrage when Russia held it in 2018.

Russia was 11th worst in the world for human rights abuses in the year 2018, Qatar is 88th in the year 2022.

People seem to have more of an issue with human rights issues if they occur in a brown country than they do a white one. 

I quite agree, there should have been, particularly given how that and the Winter Olympics occurred after the annexation of Crimea. But I suspect it has more to do with it being easier to call out a tin pot Middle Eastern nation than one of the world's largest nuclear powers rather than it being about skin colour.

Edited November 15, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Capt. Pants 4,201]

1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

"Scoring a goal before the World Cup helps my confidence a lot," he said, "so (I'm) very happy to get one. Everybody wants to showcase themselves, because every club in the world will be watching.

Hmmmm. I can remember when playing in the World Cup meant a little more than selling yourself. I despair. 

If he has a decent World Cup don't rule out bids coming in for him in January. Strikers are always in high demand and as he says the whole world will be watching.

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

30 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

It's been the case for many years that every player we sign is in the shop window.

Webber has reputation of getting excellent deals when sell players.

 

Nope, he has a hobby outside of football, therefore has no value to us whatsoever and must be slated at all times. Thems the rules, no redeeming features allowed.

[king canary 7,580]

38 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I don't feel very easy about Qatar hosting it either.

But then South Africa hosted also, and that has issues too. Brazil hosted, look at the division in Brazil now and the police shootings in the favelas.

Football is a truly global sport, can't host World Cups in Europe and North America every time, otherwise might as well call it the Caucasian Cup, and the reality is that they cost so much to host that anybody who can cobble together a bid has to be seriously considered.

I don't think it would go down too well if the UK government announced it was hosting and pumping £10bn into building new stadiums etc here whilst there is a £50bn black hole to fill with tax rises and public service cuts. 

It was, by the way, essentially illegal to be gay in the UK when England hosted the World Cup in 1966. It was the following year in 1967 when the Sexual Offences Act came into play which made life easier for homosexuals. 

I enjoy whataboutary as much as the next man don't get me wrong- but none of that remotely relates to the point about the World Cup directly contributing to awful migrant worker conditions.

I agree football can't keep hosting World Cups in Europe and nobody is arguing such. But picking a country with zero footballing history or infrastructure, where it is too hot to actually play football during the months it is supposed to be, where women have to ask men's permission before doing a host of normal activites, where people are routinely thrown in prison for being gay etc etc....isn't the same as picking a country who elected someone we don't like such as Brazil.

Edited November 15, 2022 by king canary

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

4 minutes ago, king canary said:

I enjoy whataboutary as much as the next man don't get me wrong- but none of that remotely relates to the point about the World Cup directly contributing to awful migrant worker conditions.

I agree football can't keep hosting World Cups in Europe and nobody is arguing such. But picking a country with zero footballing history of infrastructure, where it is too hot to actually play football during the months it is supposed to be, where women have to ask men's permission before doing a host of normal activites, where people are routinely thrown in prison for being gay etc etc....isn't the same as picking a country who elected someone we don't like such as Brazil.

Regrettably, I've squandered my reactions, but beautifully put. 👍

[dylanisabaddog 4,874]

It's very easy to be judgemental about football but this country does £9bn worth of trade with Qatar. Does anyone ask where the fuel comes from before they fill up their car? 

It's quite obvious the tournament shouldn't be there but the same could be said about any number of sporting events. 

[A Load of Squit 5,134]

I feel like most people when I think about this World Cup. I don't want to watch but I know I'll probably watch England live and view highlights of some of the other games.

And during and after I've watched I probably feel like I did the first time I was hungover, hurry up and be over and I'm never gonna go this again.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

48 minutes ago, king canary said:

I enjoy whataboutary as much as the next man don't get me wrong- but none of that remotely relates to the point about the World Cup directly contributing to awful migrant worker conditions.

I agree football can't keep hosting World Cups in Europe and nobody is arguing such. But picking a country with zero footballing history or infrastructure, where it is too hot to actually play football during the months it is supposed to be, where women have to ask men's permission before doing a host of normal activites, where people are routinely thrown in prison for being gay etc etc....isn't the same as picking a country who elected someone we don't like such as Brazil.

I've said exactly the same on here about migrant worker conditions, although the figure thrown around of thousands of migrant workers dying is actually for Qatar as a whole, not specifically World Cup related infrastructure. Obviously 1 is too many,  and its not like there is no exploitation of migrant workers in the UK is it,  thousands of them working at Chicken Farms etc where their take home pay is a pittance because their employers deduct accommodation and food from their salaries like the old Victorian 'token' system where you had to spend your wages with your employer, so we can all buy dirt cheap chickens in the supermarket.

And things like the cockle deaths in Morecambe Bay. In Southall there are thousands of illegal immigrants who stand around at 5am hoping to be picked up by English builders for labour work at £30 a day. 'Massage' shops all over the place staffed by trafficked girls. My local Subway has an Indian chap working who barely speaks English and runs into the back of the shop when a policeman passes.

FIFA is corrupt, I'm sure brown envelopes got them that World Cup.

I agree with all of that, all goes back to Blatter and FIFA being dodgy charlatans.

Not sure about "zero footballing history" though, Qatar been a FIFA member since 1963, and they were founder members / inaugural members of the Arabian Gulf Cup and almost qualified for the World Cup in 1990 and France in 1998. 

With a population of 2.7 million never going to expect them to be footballing luminaries, even if they'd started playing in 1888. 

I think if we are to genuinely ever call this competition a 'World Cup' then it has to reach every part of the World, including the Middle East. It would be difficult to find a country in the Middle East which people would be happy with, its a clash of cultures and I much prefer the European one... but football is a universal language.

Some countries in the Middle East are moving forwards, slowly but surely, number of executions falling, rights for women slowly improving. Remember that it was only a little over a hundred years ago that women couldn't vote in the UK and only 55 years ago that homosexuals weren't criminalised. In the grand scheme of things, that is effectively yesterday when it comes to human history.

Edited November 15, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[king canary 7,580]

3 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I've said exactly the same on here about migrant worker conditions, although the figure thrown around of thousands of migrant workers dying is actually for Qatar as a whole, not specifically World Cup related infrastructure. Obviously 1 is too many,  and its not like there is no exploitation of migrant workers in the UK is it,  thousands of them working at Chicken Farms etc where their take home pay is a pittance because their employers deduct accommodation and food from their salaries like the old Victorian 'token' system where you had to spend your wages with your employer, so we can all buy dirt cheap chickens in the supermarket.

And things like the cockle deaths in Morecambe Bay. In Southall there are thousands of illegal immigrants who stand around at 5am hoping to be picked up by English builders for labour work at £30 a day. 'Massage' shops all over the place staffed by trafficked girls. My local Subway has an Indian chap working who barely speaks English and runs into the back of the shop when a policeman passes.

FIFA is corrupt, I'm sure brown envelopes got them that World Cup.

I agree with all of that, all goes back to Blatter and FIFA being dodgy charlatans.

Not sure about "zero footballing history" though, Qatar been a FIFA member since 1963, and they were founder members / inaugural members of the Arabian Gulf Cup and almost qualified for the World Cup in 1990 and France in 1998. 

With a population of 2.7 million never going to expect them to be footballing luminaries, even if they'd started playing in 1888. 

I think if we are to genuinely ever call this competition a 'World Cup' then it has to reach every part of the World, including the Middle East. It would be difficult to find a country in the Middle East which people would be happy with, its a clash of cultures and I much prefer the European one... but football is a universal language.

I take it back.

I don't enjoy whataboutery as much as the next man if the next man is you.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

49 minutes ago, king canary said:

I enjoy whataboutary as much as the next man don't get me wrong- but none of that remotely relates to the point about the World Cup directly contributing to awful migrant worker conditions.

I agree football can't keep hosting World Cups in Europe and nobody is arguing such. But picking a country with zero footballing history or infrastructure, where it is too hot to actually play football during the months it is supposed to be, where women have to ask men's permission before doing a host of normal activites, where people are routinely thrown in prison for being gay etc etc....isn't the same as picking a country who elected someone we don't like such as Brazil.

It is well put, in a debate with grey areas. I suppose one test would be this. Would all the fans who wanted to attend the sporting event, and all the players selected, have in general terms the same freedoms of expression and the same rights to carry on their lives in the host country as they do in their own. By that test Brazil, whatever one thought about Bolsanaro, would pass, while Qatar would fail.

And that is without the specific extra black mark against Qatar of it only being able to host the competition because of the deaths of migrant workers.

Edited November 15, 2022 by PurpleCanary

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

14 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Would all the fans who wanted to attend the sporting event, and all the players selected, have in general terms the same freedoms of expression and the same rights to carry on their lives in the host country as they do in their own.

Well if the UK hosted then an American wouldn't be able to bring his handgun for open carry, the Poles wouldn't be legally allowed to drive almost 90mph on our motorways (their speed limit at home),  New Yorkers might be annoyed that you can't light a cigarette in the pub, the Russians would find that smacking their wife is somewhat frowned upon, the Spanish would be surprised that they can't buy a bottle of wine from a shop and drink it on a bench in a city centre, and quite a few nationalities would find that they can't get away with downing a few pints before getting behind the wheel of their car.

Edited November 15, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[hertfordyellow 460]

3 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

Oh, he is very much in the shop window.

Disco Stu will probably sell him for a loss

Based on his history of not making profits on players? 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,680]

3 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Imagine being in a World Cup squad but being content to play for a side which is sliding towards mid-table in the Championship.

Sargent has a winning mentality in a team full of perpetual losers.

Of course he wants off, I'd want off if I had to play in this dreadful Dean Smith side too. 

It's not like most of the players in the USA team are regular starters for world class clubs or anything. Turner might be at Arsenal but he's yet to make any appearances  for them, Dest might be a future star and Milan seem to like him but he's only played 4 times for them and that's mostly off the bench. The only players in the US squad right now that are doing well for themselves are Musah and McKennie with the rest being mostly sub players and loanees. Should be rather obvious but the US team is not and has never been a team full of world class superstars. I mean they have called up Horvath who is a Luton backup player and even called up the aging Yedlin who's career has taken a plummit as he's stuck at the clown club that is Inter Miami.

Edited November 15, 2022 by cambridgeshire canary

[The Real Buh 3,423]

2 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

It's been the case for many years that every player we sign is in the shop window.

Webber has reputation of getting excellent deals when sell players.

 

Keep clutching at those straws Stu, it won’t save you.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

It is well put, in a debate with grey areas. I suppose one test would be this. Would all the fans who wanted to attend the sporting event, and all the players selected, have in general terms the same freedoms of expression and the same rights to carry on their lives in the host country as they do in their own. By that test Brazil, whatever one thought about Bolsanaro, would pass, while Qatar would fail.

And that is without the specific extra black mark against Qatar of it only being able to host the competition because of the deaths of migrant workers.

It is very easy for us to criticise other nations. Not that I am standing up for Qatar. I am just illustrating the perception of people who live in those nations we deem despicable.

China, for instance, has a poor record on human rights compared to the UK. However, in the last thirty odd years they have raised the living standards of millions of their citizens by embracing trade, something they have always done historically, and are producing for the Western market, while subjecting many of their workers to conditions we would find barbaric. But before we say they are wrong, we should ask the Chinese people how they feel.

Qatar used bribery on a scale we had never seen in football to gain the WC and present a picture of itself that is not believable as far as we are concerned. We were upset to hear someone died during the construction of Sizewell C at the weekend, so goodness knows our reaction if we had been aware on a daily basis of the death toll building a football stadium.

To play Devil's Advocate, are we wrong? Are we lazy wanting holidays, comfortable working conditions, decent wages? No, I don't think so. Of course, until the 30s, the UK was very similar. Workers being treated slavelike, poor housing, low wages. But of course, we progressed.

So should we look at nations we currently abhor as no different to how we were not too long ago. And maybe they will progress to a level we respect as acceptable but which the peoples of those nations think is luxury.

Of course we despise all forms of hatred, dictation, bullying and discrimination. We had to fight for it and earn it. Lets hope that these nations do the same. I will be long gone but hope it does happen nonetheless.

I will be a real hypocrite and watch the England games (I might think twice if he picks Phillips). I can argue the deed is already done so no harm. But that would be morally ambivalent. So my pleasure (hopefully) would overrule the greater picture.

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,131]

Parma made a very good point in his thread last week about Sargent in that he's a 'level player' when given that fraction of a second longer to do his thing he can look unstoppable at times but at a world cup where the defenders are so sharp and quick and the football played is generally slower and more technical I can only see him struggling to be honest. To me he is and probably always will be a top Championship/lower European top flight league level player and won't be able to do much in the PL. I wouldn't worry about anyone trying to buy him off of us but he'll definitely score goals and look a handful whenever he plays for us in the Championship

I hope he does well though and nicks a couple of goals, but are a Brighton/Leeds/Brentford/Palace going to spend 8-15M to buy him from us? Highly unlikely. 

[Grando 260]

4 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Why wasn't there this level of outrage when Russia held it in 2018.

Russia was 11th worst in the world for human rights abuses in the year 2018, Qatar is 88th in the year 2022.

People seem to have more of an issue with human rights issues if they occur in a brown country than they do a white one. 

In addition to the human rights issues we can also throw into the mix the fact that domestic schedules have had to be ripped apart to accommodate this farce of a World Cup, and also the environmental impact of air-conditioning stadiums etc. Though the deaths of thousands of migrant workers this time around trumps both of these. So, I'd say that's why.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

24 minutes ago, Grando said:

In addition to the human rights issues we can also throw into the mix the fact that domestic schedules have had to be ripped apart to accommodate this farce of a World Cup, and also the environmental impact of air-conditioning stadiums etc. Though the deaths of thousands of migrant workers this time around trumps both of these. So, I'd say that's why.

But domestic schedules differ from country to country, so a summer world cup sits in the middle of some other countries schedules.

Inventing football doesn't mean we own global schedules like we think we own time with GMT.

Football season in Norway starts in April, and think its similar in Sweden. So when we have a summer World Cup, their seasons are disrupted too. 

 

[dylanisabaddog 4,874]

2 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

Parma made a very good point in his thread last week about Sargent in that he's a 'level player' when given that fraction of a second longer to do his thing he can look unstoppable at times but at a world cup where the defenders are so sharp and quick and the football played is generally slower and more technical I can only see him struggling to be honest. 

I tend to agree with you about Sargent's ability but I read this sentence and immediately thought of Harry Maguire 😂