I think the main issue is the midfield

[Thingy 36]

Defensive central midfield - We only have Hayden.

Creative central midfield - Nunez, Sara, Dowell, Sinani and Cantwell are inconsistent from one moment to the next.

 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,680]

Nunez and Sara need time and are still adjusting to the English game. Hayden despite being a top flight proven player is clearly still not fully fit, is rusty and yeah.. Again, needs more time.

Dowell is inconsistent are quite frankly just not good enough. No clue why Smith went on about him becoming our 'star man' prior to the season as I dont get what anyone could see in him.

 

Sinani has flashes of brilliance but they seem too rare to warrant a start and well.. We have all talked about cantwell for far too long without me adding to it

[Ulfotto 623]

The issue with the midfield is that this is the third season in a row that is has totally changed.
 

Three years three totally different midfields.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,513]

1 hour ago, Thingy said:

Defensive central midfield - We only have Hayden.

Creative central midfield - Nunez, Sara, Dowell, Sinani and Cantwell are inconsistent from one moment to the next.

 

I think you're absolutely right. Of those, the three most promising are Hayden, Nunez, and Sara, none of whom I think are properly up to speed yet for different reasons.

Edited November 14, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[priceyrice 123]

The midfield has been a problem for years now, but so has the defence. We've gone from Hanley being third or fourth choice to the first name on the teamsheet. It drives me mad we spent over £5m on promotion on a loan CB rather than investing into the future. 

My main issue with the midfield is the shape, watching the game on Saturday and many others this season, it has reminded me of one of Farke's worse games, being Leeds in his final season. The midfield is non-existant. You have the defence and Hanley and then a 40 yard gap and the strikers and other midfielders. There is noone playing in between the lines for the majority of games. We saw it for 20 mins on Saturday when we had some structure but it then disappeared. I don't know if it's fitness or something the players are told to do but the shape of the midfield has been driving me nuts all season. 

[Ken Hairy 3,760]

Why has no one mentioned this before?...😏

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

12 hours ago, priceyrice said:

My main issue with the midfield is the shape, watching the game on Saturday and many others this season, it has reminded me of one of Farke's worse games, being Leeds in his final season. The midfield is non-existant. You have the defence and Hanley and then a 40 yard gap and the strikers and other midfielders. There is noone playing in between the lines for the majority of games. 

So there's an Emi-shaped hole in the team?

[Google Bot 3,259]

We do have Sorensen and Gibbs.

[Petriix 2,834]

Personally I thought the midfield issues were largely resolved when we switched back to the 4-2-3-1 for the recent home games against Stoke and QPR. Aside from Nunez having a bit of a mare for the Stoke goal we looked very defensively secure, which absolutely has to be the priority. To that end, the Hayden/Gibbs partnership was looking good and something I really hoped we would persevere with.

In my opinion Smith sets his midfield up to be far too 'attacking' at the expense of having a solid structure which can adapt well to us losing the ball. The net result is too many players ahead of the play, out of position and unable to track back when needed, but also not able to link up play. We tend to do better when we're more compact as it creates the space behind which Pukki likes to exploit.

Switching to a diamond was a bold move, but that too was apparently working well. It was the inexplicable substitution on Saturday and completely ceding control in midfield that baffled me. Ultimately Hayden only seems to have about 60 minutes in him before he fades. It was the central midfield area that needed attention, so bringing on a winger for a striker was decidedly odd.

I really can't understand why Gibbs isn't getting the minutes when he was looking so promising. The biggest problem with Smith is that he changes it so often that we can't build any consistency. 

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

17 minutes ago, Petriix said:

Personally I thought the midfield issues were largely resolved when we switched back to the 4-2-3-1 for the recent home games against Stoke and QPR. Aside from Nunez having a bit of a mare for the Stoke goal we looked very defensively secure, which absolutely has to be the priority. To that end, the Hayden/Gibbs partnership was looking good and something I really hoped we would persevere with.

In my opinion Smith sets his midfield up to be far too 'attacking' at the expense of having a solid structure which can adapt well to us losing the ball. The net result is too many players ahead of the play, out of position and unable to track back when needed, but also not able to link up play. We tend to do better when we're more compact as it creates the space behind which Pukki likes to exploit.

Switching to a diamond was a bold move, but that too was apparently working well. It was the inexplicable substitution on Saturday and completely ceding control in midfield that baffled me. Ultimately Hayden only seems to have about 60 minutes in him before he fades. It was the central midfield area that needed attention, so bringing on a winger for a striker was decidedly odd.

I really can't understand why Gibbs isn't getting the minutes when he was looking so promising. The biggest problem with Smith is that he changes it so often that we can't build any consistency. 

Second para's nailed it. Hayden needs more time in the middle, so he will have spells where he fades until he's fully back in the swing of things. Hanley was one of the very few who came out of our last Premier season with any semblance of credit with a string of defiant performances despite the chaos around and in front of him.

A combination of Hayden, Gibbs, and Lungi need to be in the team at the expense of a more purely creative sort.

[rock bus 850]

1 hour ago, Petriix said:

 

I really can't understand why Gibbs isn't getting the minutes when he was looking so promising. The biggest problem with Smith is that he changes it so often that we can't build any consistency. 

This is a really good point. Gibbs is clearly a class player and cant understand why Smith isn't utilising him more. 

I rate Hayden and when fully fit we may be able to solely rely on him to protect the defence. But in the meantime I don't understand why we don't

a) start Hayden and Gibbs against the better teams to give us a good defensive platform which we can then switch to attack in the later stages of the game

b) against weaker opposition when Hayden inevitably tires during the game - bring Gibbs on to support him and save him having to run all over the place or alternatively replace him with Gibbs.

Seems obvious to me but is perhaps just another example of why Smith just isn't getting the basic tactics/team structure right.

[Leedscanary 337]

Wasn’t Sinani player of the season in a over performing Huddersfield team last season. 
Why is he struggling here?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,513]

4 hours ago, rock bus said:

This is a really good point. Gibbs is clearly a class player and cant understand why Smith isn't utilising him more. 

I rate Hayden and when fully fit we may be able to solely rely on him to protect the defence. But in the meantime I don't understand why we don't

a) start Hayden and Gibbs against the better teams to give us a good defensive platform which we can then switch to attack in the later stages of the game

b) against weaker opposition when Hayden inevitably tires during the game - bring Gibbs on to support him and save him having to run all over the place or alternatively replace him with Gibbs.

Seems obvious to me but is perhaps just another example of why Smith just isn't getting the basic tactics/team structure right.

It's a good point, but remember that it's not just results; we need to be looking to score every five minutes to be considered entertaining enough. 60 minutes of being solid to push for a late winner will cause riots.

[Capt. Pants 4,202]

1 hour ago, Leedscanary said:

Wasn’t Sinani player of the season in a over performing Huddersfield team last season. 
Why is he struggling here?

Goalie Lee Nicholls was their POTS, Sinani didn't get in the top 3.

Sinani's problem here is that he well down the pecking order, behind, well, every single other midfielder we've got. In his latest appearances he either gave the ball away or made a suicidal pass causing us to concede.

[Barham Blitz 652]

12 hours ago, Petriix said:

Personally I thought the midfield issues were largely resolved when we switched back to the 4-2-3-1 for the recent home games against Stoke and QPR. Aside from Nunez having a bit of a mare for the Stoke goal we looked very defensively secure, which absolutely has to be the priority. To that end, the Hayden/Gibbs partnership was looking good and something I really hoped we would persevere with.

In my opinion Smith sets his midfield up to be far too 'attacking' at the expense of having a solid structure which can adapt well to us losing the ball. The net result is too many players ahead of the play, out of position and unable to track back when needed, but also not able to link up play. We tend to do better when we're more compact as it creates the space behind which Pukki likes to exploit.

Switching to a diamond was a bold move, but that too was apparently working well. It was the inexplicable substitution on Saturday and completely ceding control in midfield that baffled me. Ultimately Hayden only seems to have about 60 minutes in him before he fades. It was the central midfield area that needed attention, so bringing on a winger for a striker was decidedly odd.

I really can't understand why Gibbs isn't getting the minutes when he was looking so promising. The biggest problem with Smith is that he changes it so often that we can't build any consistency. 

If we play the double pivot (which I agree with) then it has to be Hayden and Gibbs because you need one of them at least to be capable of carrying the ball or to pass progressively.  Gibbs is capable of both.

At the moment at least I don't think Hayden is fit or mobile enough to play the single pivot and IMO we don't have the wide players to play 4-3-3 anyway. The diamond to be fair to Smith is a recognition of this but we sacrifice attacking width and I'm not sure Sara or Nunez or Kenny for that matter have the defensive discipline to carry it off for 90 minutes but it isn't a bad second choice to 4-2-3-1 now that we have a more attacking left back option and it does give Sargent a more viable central role.

I would still play Teemu right with the remit of joining Josh centrally and allowing Max to be more attacking with Gibbs as the right pivot to cover in a slightly lopsided 4-2-3-1 as I think he is better at recognising space and playing those little through balls than Josh.

But Gibbs should absolutely be playing IMO - although it does mean choosing between Nunez and Sara for the attacking midfield role.

Edit: Cantwell (my choice) or Ramsey for wide left in this set up, again able to move inside and allowing Dimi or McCallum to bomb on where possible.

Second Edit: and just to annoy some more people / confirm my lack of general football understanding, my centre back pairing would be Omo and Gibson (or Sorensen when fit) as it gives a more natural left / right balance and our distribution from the back is lamentable and glacial with Hanley.  I'm really not sure that his defensive abilities such as they are outweigh this.

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Barham Blitz

[Surfer 1,547]

Agree with you on dropping Hanley. As unpopular as that may be with some.

[BigFish 1,986]

10 hours ago, Barham Blitz said:

If we play the double pivot (which I agree with) then it has to be Hayden and Gibbs because you need one of them at least to be capable of carrying the ball or to pass progressively.  Gibbs is capable of both.

At the moment at least I don't think Hayden is fit or mobile enough to play the single pivot and IMO we don't have the wide players to play 4-3-3 anyway. The diamond to be fair to Smith is a recognition of this but we sacrifice attacking width and I'm not sure Sara or Nunez or Kenny for that matter have the defensive discipline to carry it off for 90 minutes but it isn't a bad second choice to 4-2-3-1 now that we have a more attacking left back option and it does give Sargent a more viable central role.

I would still play Teemu right with the remit of joining Josh centrally and allowing Max to be more attacking with Gibbs as the right pivot to cover in a slightly lopsided 4-2-3-1 as I think he is better at recognising space and playing those little through balls than Josh.

But Gibbs should absolutely be playing IMO - although it does mean choosing between Nunez and Sara for the attacking midfield role.

Edit: Cantwell (my choice) or Ramsey for wide left in this set up, again able to move inside and allowing Dimi or McCallum to bomb on where possible.

Second Edit: and just to annoy some more people / confirm my lack of general football understanding, my centre back pairing would be Omo and Gibson (or Sorensen when fit) as it gives a more natural left / right balance and our distribution from the back is lamentable and glacial with Hanley.  I'm really not sure that his defensive abilities such as they are outweigh this.

 

 

But did we really play a diamond, as opposed to a 4312? McClean and Sara are hardly the Cantwell & Buendia of old.

[Barham Blitz 652]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

But did we really play a diamond, as opposed to a 4312? McClean and Sara are hardly the Cantwell & Buendia of old.

A valid point.  But the general principle still stands I feel as Hayden would still be the deepest of the three.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

17 hours ago, Leedscanary said:

Wasn’t Sinani player of the season in a over performing Huddersfield team last season. 

No?

Lee Nicholls took 73% of the vote.

Sorba Thomas came 2nd, and Lewis O'Brien came 3rd.

There wasn't exactly a clamour from Huddersfield fans to keep him either, they didn't seem fussed at all, consensus was that he blew hot and cold too much.

Edited November 16, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[sgncfc 1,223]

It's still not too late. Get Skipp on loan in January with an option to buy for £20m. Play the double pivot with Hayden, make ourselves hard to beat. We'll score enough goals to win enough matches to get in the playoffs (top two is already gone).

 

[Capt. Pants 4,202]

I suppose we'll hear Sorensen's name in lots of threads now he's making his return from injury. I'm not convinced he'll start ahead of Hayden and Gibbs though, but will probably figure on the bench as a utility player to cover the back 4 and DMs.

[corbs 147]

17 hours ago, sgncfc said:

It's still not too late. Get Skipp on loan 

 

Appears to be a sub in an admittedly strong spurs team. EMI beginning to establish himself in lower premiership. Meanwhile Jacob doing well at Newky. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,680]

17 hours ago, sgncfc said:

It's still not too late. Get Skipp on loan in January with an option to buy for £20m. Play the double pivot with Hayden, make ourselves hard to beat. We'll score enough goals to win enough matches to get in the playoffs (top two is already gone).

 

"Get Skipp on loan in January with an option to buy for £20m"

 

[sgncfc 1,223]

Absolutely. He's not getting a lot of game time for Spurs - nor will he with at least two players in front of him for his position.