Some Sobering Statistics.

[The Real Buh 3,432]

6 hours ago, Google Bot said:

I'm just glad we weren't universally tipped to win or come runners up this season, or reading those stats would be quite discouraging.

Deano just needs more tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii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[Capt. Pants 4,227]

The worrying thing for me is that we were pinning a lot of our hopes on Hayden, and he doesn't look very good. He can't bloody run! It was too easy for Boro to boss the midfield. The midfield diamond is a big mistake relying on him once we play any team with a midfield.

[kenfoggo 247]

Agree that Hayden is a disappointment. I watched him against Middlesbrough and thought that he spent a lot of time hiding. He seemed to struggle with movement and was reluctant to attack the ball and challenge opposition players. All in all I was surprised that he stayed on the pitch when substitutes were brought on, I thought he was the weakest player on the park and should have been yanked first. Another strange Dean Smith decision.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,547]

Just now, kenfoggo said:

Agree that Hayden is a disappointment. I watched him against Middlesbrough and thought that he spent a lot of time hiding. He seemed to struggle with movement and was reluctant to attack the ball and challenge opposition players. All in all I was surprised that he stayed on the pitch when substitutes were brought on, I thought he was the weakest player on the park and should have been yanked first. Another strange Dean Smith decision.

Hayden was injured for a long long time, but has put in some really good shifts; it's not reasonable to expect him to be 100% already after so long out.

There was nothing really that strange about substitutions at the weekend given that Sargent got a knock and Pukki speciifically requested to come off on account of feeling an issue. On reflection, losing that attacking threat probably played to making Middlesborough more adventurous, but can't be helped if both of them happen to pull up with issues.

[kenfoggo 247]

Beg to differ. I think it is entirely reasonable to expect a professional athlete, if selected to do a job, to actually do that job rather than walk around the pitch for 90 minutes. I doubt that he broke sweat after the pre match warmup.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

23 minutes ago, kenfoggo said:

Beg to differ. I think it is entirely reasonable to expect a professional athlete, if selected to do a job, to actually do that job rather than walk around the pitch for 90 minutes. I doubt that he broke sweat after the pre match warmup.

Bit harsh. He's looked ok at times, good at some points and tired and leggy at others. Should be fighting fit after the break, if not , then he goes back to Geordie land at season end. No obligation to buy, thank fook.

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

Hayden is one of the reasons I hold out some hope for the rest of the season. Although his fitness isn't yet 100%, he is the only player in the squad with the natural nous to sit at the back of midfield a la Tettey and break up the play. He's strong, he's a ball winner, and he's shown in flashes that he has the potential to fill that DM gap that has been so glaring for so long. Having that at our disposal should mean more turnovers of possession, quicker shuttling of the ball to the more creative midfield players, and the potential for the fullbacks to get forward more quickly and more often (we saw this in the first half against QPR).

 

[TIL 1010 4,738]

15 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Did we beat Millwall or was that only on the xg stats?🙃

 

Am i missing something here as Millwall was back in August ?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,547]

Just now, TIL 1010 said:

Am i missing something here as Millwall was back in August ?

I think you're missing that they're a top 6 team that we beat.

[Badger 2,405]

16 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

Whats the Xg at currently?

Well since you ask, the xG league table has us - er, 5th! 

 

https://www.infogol.net/en/leagues/english-football-league-championship-table-2022-23/439

[TIL 1010 4,738]

4 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I think you're missing that they're the only top 6 team that we beat.

Fixed it.

[Google Bot 3,275]

12 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

Hayden is one of the reasons I hold out some hope for the rest of the season. Although his fitness isn't yet 100%, he is the only player in the squad with the natural nous to sit at the back of midfield a la Tettey and break up the play.

He's certainly improved the starting 11 and an enabler for other players to go forwards.  But must admit, I thought he had more to his game than we've seen so far.   Position considered he was a bit of a baller at Newcastle, and we're not seeing much of his extended skillset yet.

That said, I don't think he's anywhere near 100%.  Any knock plays heavy on him and I think this phase is more about him doing a job, and maintaining availability for subsequent matches.

I'd be curious to what his approach would be if he were on a 3 year deal here.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,547]

1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said:

Fixed it.

For a moment there, I thought you meant you'd fixed the error in your OP in saying no wins against any of the top 6.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,547]

16 hours ago, TIL 1010 said:

One win in the last six home games.

Two wins against teams currently in the top twelve.

1 win against teams in the top 6.

Nine points off the top and likewise nine points off the drop zone.

Here you go. You're welcome!

[TIL 1010 4,738]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

For a moment there, I thought you meant you'd fixed the error in your OP in saying no wins against any of the top 6.

In my defence i copied it from an article i saw but if you see one win against those in the top 6 as a benchmark for promotion i beg to differ.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,547]

6 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

In my defence i copied it from an article i saw but if you see one win against those in the top 6 as a benchmark for promotion i beg to differ.

No it isn't, but in some ways I'd be more concerned at this point if we were beating more higher level teams than we were lower level teams, because that would mean that we were just plain fickle. The fact that we're actually fairly consistent in beating lower level and struggling against better opposition just means we need to improve; we all know there's plenty of room for improvement.

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing if this break with some proper training ground work delivers a step change in coherence and proficiency; I see no reason why it shouldn't. That on top of the fact we are still in the fight in spite of our sporadic performances and I just don't see any reason to be so defeatist.

Edited November 14, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Badger 2,405]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

For a moment there, I thought you meant you'd fixed the error in your OP in saying no wins against any of the top 6.

I think you'll find that he was posting "facts" - he said so himself! 😉

( 🤫 It's part of the reason PACE was introduced)

[TIL 1010 4,738]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

I think you'll find that he was posting "facts" - he said so himself! 😉

( 🤫 It's part of the reason PACE was introduced)

' Facts' taken from a media press article.

[Google Bot 3,275]

21 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

we are still in the fight in spite of our sporadic performances and I just don't see any reason to be so defeatist.

What is the fight, as you see it though? 

Settled squad, settled manager - I thought we were gunning for top 2,  If your target is to scrape in through playoffs, then of course you wouldn't be so defeatist.

But even if we universally agreed that playoffs was the target now, then the inability to beat the top teams becomes a bigger issue.   I just don't think we've got it in us to do anything in such crunch games.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Google Bot

[Commonsense 621]

15 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Did we beat Millwall or was that only on the xg stats?🙃

 

There you go ruining somebody’s rant with cold, hard facts. How dare you?

[Badger 2,405]

 

1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said:

5 minutes ago, Badger said:

I think you'll find that he was posting "facts" - he said so himself! 😉

( 🤫 It's part of the reason PACE was introduced)

' Facts' taken from a media press article.

🤔 It's not the fact (pun intended) that you made a mistake which is the issue - it is the fact that you did not acknowledge it and instead corrected littleyellowbirdie as if he were in the wrong. We all make mistakes but we should own them rather than cover them up.

PS - I wouldn't believe everything that you read in the media- especially those parts that have "an agenda."

[TIL 1010 4,738]

3 minutes ago, Badger said:

 

🤔 It's not the fact (pun intended) that you made a mistake which is the issue - it is the fact that you did not acknowledge it and instead corrected littleyellowbirdie as if he were in the wrong. We all make mistakes but we should own them rather than cover them up.

PS - I wouldn't believe everything that you read in the media- especially those parts that have "an agenda."

You obviously did not take note of my ' Thanks ' reaction to the post correcting me.

[Badger 2,405]

1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said:

You obviously did not take note of my ' Thanks ' reaction to the post correcting me.

No, I noted your earlier response when you changes littleyellowbirdie's post rather than admit you were wrong and he was right. Since you have more or less acknowledged this, albeit late and reluctantly, no need to pursue the matter further.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

2 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

The worrying thing for me is that we were pinning a lot of our hopes on Hayden, and he doesn't look very good. He can't bloody run! It was too easy for Boro to boss the midfield. The midfield diamond is a big mistake relying on him once we play any team with a midfield.

I think it’s a bit unfair to single out Hayden when the entire team looked gassed in the second half. The first 30 when he did look fit coincided with our best spell of the game which I don’t think is a coincidence

[Branston Pickle 3,656]

20 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

In my defence i copied it from an article i saw but if you see one win against those in the top 6 as a benchmark for promotion i beg to differ.

That’s fair - but it’s equally fair that stats are correct…someone else said they were ‘facts’ but they aren’t.  Given that teams move up and down the league (as we have shown) it is a bit of a misleading one anyway.

I do think we can all agree that it has been mixed and not good enough anywhere near often enough; we need to improve in all areas - if toddling off to Florida will help then fine, but I somehow doubt it.

[Canary Jedi 579]

I think the title is wrong. These are not sobering stats, they are reasons not to be sober!

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

We are never all going to agree so I will chuck in my two penneth.

For me the reason we aren't Burnley is simply coaching. I don't wish to keep banging the same drum but Deano is not doing well with our club. That is a fact. I don't think I have read so many negative posts about any coach when we are in the top six. That tells me something for a start. And lets not get into the some are miserable and some are happy argument. Its irrelevant.

What we witnessed Saturday was the first four or five minutes of Boro showing us how they would play. We then took control with pacy, attacking football with Ramsey and Sara linking well, Kenny bursting forward and Hayden doing what we wanted and sitting comfortably.

We scored, could of had another and then the lights went out. What happened? We all saw it. We took our boot off Boro's throat and let them dictate for virtually the rest of the game. Then we had to revert to our two attacking midfield players having to chase Boro players. Neither of them are good at that.

The diamond formation showed its limitations as McCallum came under pressure having to mark two players at times and they overlapped him at will.

We all saw it so why didn't our coach?

And we all know a decent side can score against us and it was no surprise when they equalised. And the game then turned completely apart from a brief episode thanks to Max attacking them.Then the, for me anyway, embarrassing substitutions was the final straw. The ridiculous change of Teemu for Onel was bad enough and I accept Sarge was probably injured and they didn't want to ruin his WC, but to see poor old Hugill looking like a bull looking for a Matador in the hope that he could lay it off to Hanley was farcical.

That wasn't a coach with a plan, that was clueless, desperate and pathetic.

I feel we have some good players who have showed they can play but only in patches. We need them to be coached by someone who has a plan or tactic like  Carrick has given Boro. I don't think Deano can.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

In my defence i copied it from an article i saw but if you see one win against those in the top 6 as a benchmark for promotion i beg to differ.

To be fair it may have been right when the article was written. The league is so competitive and with 3 games a week the table changes a lot all the time.

Due to the world cup the current league table will at least live longer than a Mayfly 🙃

[TIL 1010 4,738]

53 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

We are never all going to agree so I will chuck in my two penneth.

For me the reason we aren't Burnley is simply coaching. I don't wish to keep banging the same drum but Deano is not doing well with our club. That is a fact. I don't think I have read so many negative posts about any coach when we are in the top six. That tells me something for a start. And lets not get into the some are miserable and some are happy argument. Its irrelevant.

What we witnessed Saturday was the first four or five minutes of Boro showing us how they would play. We then took control with pacy, attacking football with Ramsey and Sara linking well, Kenny bursting forward and Hayden doing what we wanted and sitting comfortably.

We scored, could of had another and then the lights went out. What happened? We all saw it. We took our boot off Boro's throat and let them dictate for virtually the rest of the game. Then we had to revert to our two attacking midfield players having to chase Boro players. Neither of them are good at that.

The diamond formation showed its limitations as McCallum came under pressure having to mark two players at times and they overlapped him at will.

We all saw it so why didn't our coach?

And we all know a decent side can score against us and it was no surprise when they equalised. And the game then turned completely apart from a brief episode thanks to Max attacking them.Then the, for me anyway, embarrassing substitutions was the final straw. The ridiculous change of Teemu for Onel was bad enough and I accept Sarge was probably injured and they didn't want to ruin his WC, but to see poor old Hugill looking like a bull looking for a Matador in the hope that he could lay it off to Hanley was farcical.

That wasn't a coach with a plan, that was clueless, desperate and pathetic.

I feel we have some good players who have showed they can play but only in patches. We need them to be coached by someone who has a plan or tactic like  Carrick has given Boro. I don't think Deano can.

Nobody, just nobody can argue with that analysis of what went on Saturday. Smith and his gang of sidekicks overflowing in the home dugout are and were aabsolutely clueless.

[chicken 2,624]

On 14/11/2022 at 00:34, By Hook or Ian crook said:

It’s totally not bs. I’ll explain why it’s not, all wins give 3 points but not all teams are of equal quality. You still get 3 points for beating the 24th side as you do for beating the 1st side. If a team beats the bottom 3 they get the same points as a team that beats the top 3 but which team would you say is strongest? Everyone with common sense would say the one who’s beaten the top 3 is the better side by the weight of quality of opponents beaten. I’m sure you understand that concept. 
 

You can think we’ve been soft if you wish but 2 seasons ago at this level we only conceded 36 goals in the entire season when  we are at 23 now and we are not even half way through. 
 

Our recruitment in midfield absolutely has been woeful. Although I hold hope for Gibbs, Hayden, Sara and Nunez. 

So what you have summed up is exactly what I said. It's not a "false position" in terms of the snapshot at that time. A false position would be one that isn't true. Hence at that point, it wasn't false.

As I said, folks are free to believe that a team isn't strong enough to compete with teams above it, that doesn't make their position false. Despite losing to some of those teams, we are still in a reasonably decent position all things considered. It's still not false...

As I said, as unconvincing as we have been, we have gained the points to be where we are, or where we were. When a league plays out, it's about consistency as much as anything else, especially the Championship. No point beating top 6 teams if you can't beat the bottom 6 teams.

The BS is from people claiming we've only beaten 2 top 12 sides, when the positions of teams change on a game by game basis. 

For example. Game Day 10. We beat Bristol City who were in 4th place at that point. They are now 18th. Equally, we beat Millwall on game day 5 when we were in 17th and they were in 5th. They are currently 6th.

We also beat Coventry who are in 11th and with two games in hand over all but Millwall in the top half of the table and who sit two points off them and the play-offs. Two wins and they could be as high as 4th, a win from our next two games would put us on equal points, same with Millwal and all of a sudden that top six has two teams in it we have beaten this season. It can change, it does change.

If "the league doesn't lie", and "this league is a marathon not a sprint", then it's probably best advisable to stop making the weakest and lamest arguments there are based on far too many variables to ever rely upon.

Rotherham are in 16th, one win for them and a loss for the four teams above them - not inconceivable, would put them in 12th on goal difference. Even more believable if you push that to two results. 

(based on this website - https://fussball.wettpoint.com/en/tables/gamedays-championship-england.html) 

A far better argument is that out of the current top six we have: Burnley - lost, Sheff Untd - drawn, Blackburn - not played yet, Watford - lost, Millwall - won. One win, one draw and two losses. Blackburn could balance it out... 

When you consider Burnley, they are well out in front with goals - 40, and that's what's winning them the title right now. Their form has been, patchy. They have drawn to a lot of lower half teams - Blackpool 3-3, WBA 1-1, Birmingham 1-1, Stoke 1-1, Cardiff 1-1. They have a better record against top 6 sides, 3-0 win Vs Blackburn, 1-0 vs us, 2-0 win Vs Millwall,  5-2 loss to Shef Utd though, and they are yet to play Watford I think. Equally, they also beat Reading who were top 6 at the time but could possibly lose 12th place in as short a time as the next game day to Rotherham...

That just underlines how much can change in a couple of games. In fact, in the same breath as "we haven't beaten anyone in the top 6" and "only beaten 2 in the top 12"  comes "9points off the drop zone", that's 5th to 22nd.

What surprises me the most is the apparent shock amongst people on here that the championship can be so tight. If anything, the shock is generally that bar Burnley and possibly Shef Utd, no one is really being all that consistent at all. Not just us.

Am I arguing that is good enough? No. I'm just tired of people trying to make more arguments than there needs to be. It's not been at all convincing. I agree with Nutty in that I feel we are a team in transition, one that has had a soft underbelly for too many seasons. Despite a wonderful manager, and he was that, we haven't really had a settled midfield - neither he, nor Webber seem to have been able to get that right. In fact, Farke even admitted to originally pushing Tettey towards the exit door.

Even though I believe that to be the case, I still think more consistency could be gained out of this squad, even if I think in reality, our squad isn't quite as deep with quality as people would like to think it is. Do we really think that Hugill, Sinani, Hernandez, Sorensen could get into another top six side? You could stretch that to Dowell, with some arguments perhaps. You could even suggest that Tomkinson isn't there yet, perhaps McCallum is still a bit raw. Even Omabamidele is still learning. Rowe, Spingett - still untested as regulars in the Championship... Sara and Nunez are still cutting their teeth. Even Idah still has to prove he can do it over a sustained period of games.