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We all now know Smith is poor but what about shakey?

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I’ve made it clear that I have never thought Smith was the right man for the job and think most fans are probably having to face same conclusion now.

but I do also wonder what responsibility Shakespeare has to play in the current rubbish performances. Presumably he is a big influence on style of play, fitness and tactics.must admit,  It may just be down to his appearance but he strikes me as a very old school coach and not particularly inspiring. Certainly him and Smith appear a terrible pairing who I can’t see inspiring our players.

if you look at how some brilliant current coaches have learnt the ropes from being a number two, Arteta and kompany being two great examples perhaps we should be looking at this. I also note how well Gary oneil and Craig Bellamy are doing as well. 

Maybe just getting someone in with some fresh ideas and enthusiasm might help Smith (although I’d still rather get rid of both!)

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Just now, TheBaldOne66 said:

So the fact he was a coach at Leicester in the year they won the Prem is crap now is it? 

No, that’s not what I’m saying.

but time moves on and so has the game. Just because he was successful once at a different time doesn’t mean that he is still as good. Are you saying he is showing ANY signs of turning our players into premier league winners?!?

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I wasn’t saying anything, you were! 
 

It’s not that long ago he won it with Leicester is it? What timescale do you put on it not being relevant any longer then?

Mourinho hasn’t won anything for a while so does that mean he’s a crap manager now? Conte hasn’t won much for a while either, so does that also apply, or more likely, you are just clutching at straws to try and beat Shakespeare with!

When he sends a CV for a job do you think he doesn’t put it on there anymore because it is out of date 🤣🤣🤣

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Lambert made a pretty hash of virtually every job except us. Now he is a Hall of Famer. 

Will another coach be better than Smith. On a results basis, who knows. But if you take a coach who is a attacking, entertaining one then you might well see some good football.

Yesterday was once again such a let down and in the end a boring let down. Out passed by a Boro team who have obviously adapted to a coach renowned for his passing and calmness.

So if Shakey is in any way a replacement for Deano, surely he would be whispering in his ear about doing something different. So I would say the attitude is endemic, although I must admit, Irvine's style was different to Neill's when he took over.

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Based purely on the fact our players are going backwards I would suggest he's not a particularly great coach. 

Farke, Reimer and Domogalla. Now that was a coaching team.

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32 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

I wasn’t saying anything, you were! 
 

It’s not that long ago he won it with Leicester is it? What timescale do you put on it not being relevant any longer then?

Mourinho hasn’t won anything for a while so does that mean he’s a crap manager now? Conte hasn’t won much for a while either, so does that also apply, or more likely, you are just clutching at straws to try and beat Shakespeare with!

When he sends a CV for a job do you think he doesn’t put it on there anymore because it is out of date 🤣🤣🤣

Going by his logic that him winning the Prem was years ago so its irrelevant then surely that means Farke winning the championship is irrelevant?😉

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Just now, cambridgeshire canary said:

Going by his logic that him winning the Prem was years ago so its irrelevant then surely that means Farke winning the championship is irrelevant?😉

Careful you will upset a few on here with quotes like that 🤣🤣

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21 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Going by his logic that him winning the Prem was years ago so its irrelevant then surely that means Farke winning the championship is irrelevant?😉

To be honest it is! It’s history and we can and should be looking forwards……Farke had to go and now so does Smith. 👍

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29 minutes ago, Indy said:

To be honest it is! It’s history and we can and should be looking forwards……Farke had to go and now so does Smith. 👍

Yup, but generally the future is predicted on past performance. Unfortunately, some on here seem to predict the future on the last one performance... but only on the weeks where we lose.

Not to lose sight of the fact that it was a dire display yesterday, but I do completely reject the idea that it's all as simple as who the manager happens to be. Moreover, the obsession with managers gives underperforming players a free pass, when it's they who really should be under the microscope after yesterday.

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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1 hour ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

I wasn’t saying anything, you were! 
 

It’s not that long ago he won it with Leicester is it? What timescale do you put on it not being relevant any longer then?

Mourinho hasn’t won anything for a while so does that mean he’s a crap manager now? Conte hasn’t won much for a while either, so does that also apply, or more likely, you are just clutching at straws to try and beat Shakespeare with!

When he sends a CV for a job do you think he doesn’t put it on there anymore because it is out of date 🤣🤣🤣

That year all the so called "top four" were crap.All the football stars aligned that season for Leicester. Simple as.

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Smith is bizarre in his tactics. There is no way we play like we guys for 20 minutes (yet again no longer than this every bloody game). Only to come out in the second half and essentially try and sit back and protect our fragile lead. I cannot accept that the players took it upon themselves to give Middlesbrough all the possession and create nothing while they came closer and closer to breaching our defence. We were on the back foot for 60 minutes yesterday, playing like a team that started fast in a cup game against opponents two leagues above us. It was backs to the wall football. At home. Against Middlesbrough. 
If by some miracle it wasn’t Smith’s ‘tactics’ (which I shudder to call them) then when he changed it up he ballsed that up anyway. When you talk about how important it is for the crowd to get behind your team you don’t set them up at home to lack any moments that will engage the crowd and garner their voice. The final issue is that, assuming the players are supposed to take responsibility from Dean’s clear lack of competency, but their lack of confidence and fight us the issue then they’re not playing for their manager, which is the managers fault for not convincing them that his ‘plan’ will see them walk off to applause. 
Fans got behind the team yesterday fine. We are holding our end of the deal, Smith needs to hold his. To say he’s worked it out now is just bizarre, unless of course he has worked out that it’s him and he was just in denial all this time. I’d honestly applaud his decision to walk away and wish him well, but it’s more and more the case that he knows he is in borrowed time, his stock is back where it was when he was starting out at Walsall and his chance of the promised land of the epl is over. Ironically if he had the talent to manage there he’d be doing a far better job to get us there because his other routes there are closed. 
 

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1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

The best thing about Shakey is that he insists his office door is painted green.

Every time Deano walks past it he chuckles.

he'll be going back to his old house soon enough.

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47 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:
1 hour ago, Indy said:

 

Yup, but generally the future is predicted on past performance.

Unprovable cliche. 

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3 hours ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

So the fact he was a coach at Leicester in the year they won the Prem is crap now is it? 

Great achievement though it was I'm not sure it could be put down to great coaching.  Old school 4-4-2 (4-5-2 if you include peak Kante of course) with two monster centre halves sitting within a narrow back four on the edge of their penalty area and the entire team pinging the ball into channels for Ulloa to flick on or Vardy or Okazaki to run on and score isn't the most sophisticated approach, albeit it proved remarkably effective for a season in which everyone else weirdly imploded. 

A simplification of course in a side featuring the likes of Mahrez l accept but not far off and I suspect the majority of the Pinkun worthies would not be impressed if it was implemented here.

As an aside, I can't help but think that the bypassing of the midfield press by longer passing through the channels in that side might have set a few cogs turning for Webber in his 4-3-3 mind you ...

Edited by Barham Blitz

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21 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Hard to believe that Thomas Franke was Dean Smith's no.2 at Brentford..

Frank was a manager at Brondby before going there too. I think it's interesting (and probably a good idea) that Brentford brought a coach in themselves and made him a part of the staff. Usually a manager will come in and choose the backroom team himself. In many ways I see it similarly to how I view managers being in charge of recruitment, they will pick people they like and therefore probably not the best available. Coaching teams always strike me as cliquey in nature, is there a dissenting voice in that group right now? Or do they all seem to think everything is fine and what they're doing is correct. 

There's a middle ground to be struck and something the club should consider. If they aren't going to sack Smith then why not look at bringing another coach in who can help the side in possession. We've already done it with set pieces.

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It’s obvious watching us that we have become a very unfit team, we can play at at the desired level of an upper 10 championship standard team and then run out of steam at the 20 minute point.


Without mentioning our previous manager it’s pretty obvious to say we could last the pace and a lot of our wind in the Championship came late in games due to our superior fitness. Remember Millwall at home…happy days.
 

We could play 45 minutes of added time now and still not look like scoring. Smith and Shakespeare set an example and it’s not a good one, fitness and the ability to sustain 90 minutes of high tempo football is a pipe dream for NCFC atm.

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My dad reckons having him and Smith on the touchline shouting instructions at the players at the same time is daft.

I agree. Shakespeare should only be doing that if Smith is sat down on the bench (which he never does).

As for what Shakespeare does in training (Neyul), god only knows. The players certainly don't.

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Shakespeare was not the Tinkerman's right hand man at Leicester as he brought two coaches with him when he walked in the door from Italy.

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Shakespeare has largely worked with hoofer managers like Pearson, Mowbray and Allardyce. Looking at him it's hard to imagine he was once a footballer himself, it doesn't seem a great example to set for the players.

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33 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Shakespeare has largely worked with hoofer managers like Pearson, Mowbray and Allardyce. Looking at him it's hard to imagine he was once a footballer himself, it doesn't seem a great example to set for the players.

It’s fair to say he’s largely worked everywhere he’s worked

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Amazing how the last 8 to 10 minutes of kick and rush football when we looked more likely to score

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Just now, daly said:

Amazing how the last 8 to 10 minutes of kick and rush football when we looked more likely to score

Hanley up front permanently?

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5 hours ago, rock bus said:

No, that’s not what I’m saying.

but time moves on and so has the game. Just because he was successful once at a different time doesn’t mean that he is still as good. Are you saying he is showing ANY signs of turning our players into premier league winners?!?

The game has certainly moved on for the Manager who won the league at Leicester. Claudio someone . What happened to him? 

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3 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Unprovable cliche. 

At a very profound philosophical level, you're actually right that observations of the past can't predict the future, but given that observing results is literally the very foundation of the entire scientific method for constructing models to predict outcomes given known variables, then dismissing the axiom as unprovable cliché strikes me as the most extreme luddism imaginable.

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20 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

 

At a very profound philosophical level, you're actually right that observations of the past can't predict the future, but given that observing results is literally the very foundation of the entire scientific method for constructing models to predict outcomes given known variables, then dismissing the axiom as unprovable cliché strikes me as the most extreme luddism imaginable.

Yada yada.  We know .  As you say, I am correct. You then go on to change the game....as a mechanism to call me a Luddite...had an education too you know.  

Peck some other mirror , Wagtail. 

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