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Shots Fired Prior To AGM.

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6 minutes ago, Badger said:

Without wishing to sound like a priest/ teacher surely it is time for the two to sit down and sort out their differences - the current situation seems to be damaging to both.

That is precisely my point about it being petty and childish. Totally agree about cutting off the local press too at this particular point in time too.

I suppose some people will always support whatever the club does. And some will always criticise. The main purpose in life is to try and find compromises, to talk and work through stuff. Otherwise it's just one more divisive thing (albeit a tiny matter in the grand scheme of things) and we've had enough division. This is not very 'Norwich City' is it?

 

Edited by sonyc
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13 minutes ago, BigFish said:

 

Thanks for the usually sensible btw @king canary. The key to me is that if you sweep away the faux outrage what difference does restricting Archant access mean to us as fans. The AGM is a classic example. I don't expect anything interesting to come up but we will know if it does, so the absence of Archant journos make no difference. As for holding the club to account this just doesn't happen, there is no mechanism for this so it just doesn't happen. If the Americans take the club private there will be no AGM to report on.

This is the point that I have continually made. This access to AGMs and the connection between club and minor shareholders and the fans is not the norm. What everyone is complaining about will be the norm if the club is taken over. The connect with will only be the club's own media spin department like you see elsewhere. Ironically many of those complaining about this are the same posters who can't wait the takeover to happen. 

Back in the day when the fans had a gripe with the club they stood outside the meetings and protested. This would get coverage in the press and even TV. But it won't happen tonight, not least because it would be difficult to make that effort and keep up with the events in the jungle.

 

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16 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I suppose some people will always support whatever the club does. And some will always criticise. The main purpose in life is to try and find compromises, to talk and work through stuff. Otherwise it's just one more divisive thing (albeit a tiny matter in the grand scheme of things) and we've had enough division. This is not very 'Norwich City' is it?

I couldn't agree more - I hate the way that everything is divided into "sides" and people pretend that one side is always right and one always wrong. I think most of us know from our own lives that things are rarely "black and white" and pretending that it is leads to destructive division which we see in so many aspects of life. As you say - "petty and childish."

Deliberately fostering a grievance falls into this pattern - destructive and divisive and ultimately makes things worse for everybody.

Edited by Badger
Added last sentence of first para
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1 hour ago, BigFish said:

 

For many of us the local press is our conduit of information and news - really?

For a long time I have got virtually nothing of value from the Archant reporting and this has got worse as I have no intention of wasting my money on a subscription. This message board is my primary source, @ricardo (although mistaken on Brexit) produces better match reports, @Parma Ham's gone mouldy better tactical analysis, although not posting so much @Bethnal Yellow and Green provides better insight, @PurpleCanary, @sheffcanary better financial insight and apologies for any missed. Twitter breaks news faster, BBC fills the details. The only sort of scoop they have had was spotting the American's at the game but that soon dried up afterwards.

I am not expecting anything of note from the AGM and as @Capt. Pants points out it would be easy enough to provide coverage if they really wanted to.

I would partially defend the subscription service and partially the reporting. For me quite often the former is the only way I can follow a game, by way of the minute-by-minute coverage. And in the Q&A sessions the reporters tend to be more interestingly opinionated and critical than they allow themselves to be in articles.

As to Attanasio it is not clear to me whether they got the story only from seeing those seven paraded or had got wind of it beforehand. Supposedly Michael Bailey had also been chasing it, so that might suggest the EDP had already cottoned onto it in general terms. At any event the paper correctly resisted what I understand was considerable pressure applied by the club not to publish.

Edited by PurpleCanary

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Just now, PurpleCanary said:

As to Attanasio it is not clear to me whether they got the story only from seeing those seven paraded or had got wind of it already. Supposedly Michael Bailey had also been chasing it, so that might suggest the EDP had already cottoned onto it in general terms.

I'm sure Rob Butler tweeted out a photo which started the whole process of this becoming public?

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Historically the AGM has been a night for The Clapping Seals so I don't think we will miss much.

Did I read on here Dean Smith and Webber won't be attending anyway?

I can vaguely recall live reporting on the Pinkun a few years back when Alex Neil got a bit of a grilling which was then feeding through to a thread on here.

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The widely held presumption seems to be that this ‘broke’ as a result of the Spurs game. I’ve more than a hunch it was already known about by the media, who were already working on it. 

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3 hours ago, BigFish said:

You are missing the key point, in part this is a battle over content. Archant's tenuous financial stability & future is dependent on eyeballs. If they stop reporting, readers will stop consuming and the whole Archant edifice collapses in a heap.

I like Archant acting outside of the "inner circle" despite us not knowing facts and figures most supporters groups take for granted because they will now be absolutely independent and will print what they see as correct and not be swayed by others with other agendas.

Edited by Kenny Foggo
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1 minute ago, Google Bot said:

I'm sure Rob Butler tweeted out a photo which started the whole process of this becoming public?

I don't do twitter but I found this, with a pic of the seven albeit walking on the pitch rather than in a line in the directors' box:

Rob Butler on Twitter: "We understand that @pinkun reports are spot on and #ncfc are in talks with Milwaukee Brewers owner Mark Attanasio over possible investment. Here's a picture I snapped following...

That was plainly posted after the EDP had started its reporting. And it would make no sense for the club to try to stop the EDP from publishing if Butler had already broken the story. It seems clear he was behind the news and only catching up rather than breaking it.

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2 minutes ago, GMF said:

The widely held presumption seems to be that this ‘broke’ as a result of the Spurs game. I’ve more than a hunch it was already known about by the media, who were already working on it. 

That is my understanding.

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The Attanasio issue is ridiculous and I don't see it as a breach of trust. However it's not something supporters would ordinarily care about too much.

What supporters usually care about is success on the pitch. In normal times fans would be quite happy with this season so far. But this season seems weird because a lot of fans don't seem to want either promotion or non promotion. They must be so conflicted and I'm sure this is why they pretend to care so much about non football stuff. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Historically the AGM has been a night for The Clapping Seals so I don't think we will miss much.

Did I read on here Dean Smith and Webber won't be attending anyway?

I can vaguely recall live reporting on the Pinkun a few years back when Alex Neil got a bit of a grilling which was then feeding through to a thread on here.

Have you ever been to an AGM?

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2 hours ago, sonyc said:

I would happily agree that those posters named above are great examples of what a "community" type of club is about. You get thoughtful analysis from all of those contributors and very balanced too (on things to do with Norwich City). I would add a few more to the list but like you it would inevitably mean I would miss others. Your list is a good start. I would also add those who post on the Pup's forum as representing the club's best interests.

I have a feeling Webber is the instigator of all of this because he also has taken his bat home, ever since he didn't like to take his own messaging to heart ("ignore the noise"). The trouble is that once you lose trust in this manner you slowly but surely lose a part of your club's Identity. A sad state of affairs when local journalists are kept out. All very childish to my eyes.

It is absolutely all to do with him. The supposed “breach of trust” is a red herring in my view. This all started when he and the club started to get some criticism and his commitment was questioned after that shocking interview. 

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1 minute ago, Capt. Pants said:

No. I'm going by reactions and comments I read on here, and from a friend who is a shareholder who will be at the AGM.

It's strange because the awkward questions that are asked at the AGM are from the seals. Seals who have invested money into the football club beyond buying tickets. We all have fun with Ethics Canary but he stumped up ten grand when itv digital went bust. 

 

 

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There is something of the night about that blond haired head of communications. I suspect the issue won’t be resolved until he is moved on 

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1 hour ago, Davidlingfield said:

Not bad at £700k+ per year. No wonder they don’t want any journalistic scrutiny.

And sitting at head of the table,  pulling quite a lot of strings. 

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Feels like a totally unnecessary own-goal from the club even if there is a legitimate case of them feeling a 'breach of trust'.

I don't agree that's the case by the way, what seems to have happened is journalists doing a good job of being journalists.

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1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

I like Archant acting outside of the "inner circle" despite us not knowing facts and figures most supporters groups take for granted because they will now be absolutely independent and will print what they see as correct and not be swayed by others with other agendas.

Pretty much agree, but it would be good if all the whining about them being outside of the "inner circle" stopped

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5 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Pretty much agree, but it would be good if all the whining about them being outside of the "inner circle" stopped

In large part what they are complaining about is being publicly accused of a breach of trust/ethics when from all I have heard they committed no such crime. Instead the club is using what Davitt and Seaman have credibly said is a false accusation as grounds for reducing access.

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Local Press always stirring with polls for this and that regarding the Club to try and sell more papers.  Newspapers are dying unfortunately with young people getting all the information they need from phones etc.  Archant were taken over recently I believe.

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8 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

In large part what they are complaining about is being publicly accused of a breach of trust/ethics when from all I have heard they committed no such crime.

Unless the club had previously informed them of the Attansio deal being in the works, of course.  Pinkun maintains this as being entirely journalistic work that they carried out themselves, but what happens if somewhere in this process the club have confirmed the talks - not willing to confirm names of individuals involved - and Pinkun have still run with the story?

For me, that's a grey area and imagine the Pinkun were desperate to break this story ahead of Bailey/Athletic or nationals.  Because everything else is pretty much news aggregration from said sources.

Edited by Google Bot
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I believe everything I read in the Press. For example, the Mail, Telegraph and Express all said Brexit would be great, and it is! 😉

 

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23 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Unless the club had previously informed them of the Attansio deal being in the works, of course.  Pinkun maintains this as being entirely journalistic work that they carried out themselves, but what happens if somewhere in this process the club have confirmed the talks - not willing to confirm names of individuals involved - and Pinkun have still run with the story?

For me, that's a grey area and imagine the Pinkun were desperate to break this story ahead of Bailey/Athletic or nationals.  Because everything else is pretty much news aggregration from said sources.

I think this says it for me. Even before the Pink Un went behind the paywall the content was less and less original and more and more recycled news from other outlets or opinion pieces from random contributors, so with the competition from the Athletic etc and alleged finance issues at Archant, then it would be tempting to break it.

Obviously we don't (and probably never will) know the true story about all of this.

But then of course the club going from "transparency and all one club with the fans" to the rather insular place they seem to be now is a worrying situation as well.

Regardless of if they are getting along with the media or not, the in house productions (albeit good quality) are, as others have said, just passing out 1 message with no challenging questions being asked and getting lots of fans backs up because of it.

The journalism industry is not perfect (just look at all the papers/TV channels that toe the government line) but without someone asking the pertinent questions then, in this case, the football club moves further away from the fans and resentment grows. 

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Compared with the "nationals" Archant have always been very mild and balanced with most of their critical articles. In fact I do not think the current crop of journalists are that great or incisive with their comments. However what does not sit well with me is that we are in this situation despite repeated claims from the owners that we are an open community based Club. This might be their desire and wish but professional football these days is all about Sky, money and a number of unscrupulous owners. I was quite surprised the other day to read that there is barely an English owner of any of the  Premiership sides.

As to the AGM I have always found most questions raised are well thought out and relevant. Never seen any evidence of "easy planted questions". Could be any interesting evening.

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3 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

In large part what they are complaining about is being publicly accused of a breach of trust/ethics when from all I have heard they committed no such crime. Instead the club is using what Davitt and Seaman have credibly said is a false accusation as grounds for reducing access.

Anyway with any luck this is water under the bridge and the club won’t be dumb enough to repeat this accusation at the AGM.🤓

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