Would you accept £4.8m for Rashica?

[Canary dwarf 221]

8 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I'm not sure I'd write him off as a Norwich option if we return to the Premier League. He was bought to play Premier League football for us and there were some promising glimpses in the Premier League before he was injured. It could well be that Smith might want to give him another go if we're promoted. 

A loan was a good move to keep him playing at a level he's happy with for the time being and keep the wage costs down.

Do you honestly think he is 

  premier League , what planet do you live on ?

Edited November 9, 2022 by Canary dwarf

[Monty13 2,231]

13 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Well obviously things went downhill when he was injured. Question is, if the club thought he was a truly a write off, why'd they loan him out instead of at least putting a buy clause in there? 

Potentially because no one wanted to buy him? and/or because his value was so low the club wanted to see if he recouped some with performances this season rather than agree a fee at a low point.

[Google Bot 3,275]

9 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Both those attributes were sorely missing with Rashica last season…he had next to no trickery and I think my 80 year old mum could outsprint him.  Are you sure you were watching the same player?  

Yeah, of course i'm sure.  We all watched Sarge falling over himself and missing open goals last season.  Just as we watched Tzolis entirely isolated from the starting 11.  Last season was a total disgrace, but you can still see when players have ability beyond what is here already.

Who else would you rate in our squad who is better at running at defenses?  Onel is great in short bursts, but he's got about 15 minutes of play in him per game and routinely goes too far out wide.  His strengths are winning corners, but we're ****e at corners.

We need someone coming in to the box and either supplying a larger more capable target like Sarge in the box, or cutting in themselves and being a threat in the box for players like Pukki to spring on any lose balls.

I have no doubt that Rashica would be a menace at this level, instead we have him sent out and are playing boring ineffective players like Dowell and McLean, and throwing a broken Cantwell in - for what? - Him to leave end of season.

[Petriix 2,835]

17 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I have no doubt that Rashica would be a menace at this level, instead we have him sent out and are playing boring ineffective players like Dowell and McLean, and throwing a broken Cantwell in - for what? - Him to leave end of season.

And yet... Rashica was demonstrably awful at this level and the much maligned Cantwell shows a far greater understanding of how to link up play. And, of course, the latter has prior success in two Championship titles.

I've read lots of people suggesting that Rashica 'will tear up the Championship' or words to that effect, but I've seen zero evidence of the required attributes. I think people are just seeing the price tag and assuming that he must be better than what we've already seen. 

On the other hand, Sara has already started to show everything Rashica has not. Some transfers are successful and others are not. Time to cut our losses. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,547]

3 hours ago, Monty13 said:

Potentially because no one wanted to buy him? and/or because his value was so low the club wanted to see if he recouped some with performances this season rather than agree a fee at a low point.

Possibly. Equally, they might have thought it was a waste of money paying all his wages for a Championship campaign, but possibly good to have the option again on a return to the Premier League. 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

17 hours ago, Google Bot said:

He should be a part of the team this season, Poorly handled in my opinion.

Sarge could've gone the same way as Rashica, but instead he was the championship top scorer only a few weeks back.

I'd love to know if Milot had no interest in playing for us, or if it was more mutual and we didn't think he was worth his salary.  It's just stupid that we're playing a system where you need wingers to take the ball past people, and he's nowhere to be seen.

Mentally he was nowhere near with it on the field before he went on loan this season, but we've seen him skin and turn many prem defences at times last season.  Just needed to refine and focus his final delivery, he'd be an absolute menace at this level.

Are we? I can’t work out what system we play from one week to the next 🤷‍♂️ 

[Mason 47 1,379]

I was one of the people that very much thought Rashica would bang at this level- but having watched his appearances at the start of the season he absolute wasn't going to. 

Arguments comparing him to Sargent- well, it's patently obviously that winger Sarge is criminally out of position and yet they had similar goal contributions last year. Rashica had plenty of games in his preferred position and delivered precious little. Hernandez at least causes chaos and panics defences.

I don't necessarily think he's a bad player. I believe it's more than he's generically ok at most attacking facets but not a stand out in any of them, meaning without other players representing key 'weapons' he's pretty useless to us.

Maybe he would have come good this year, maybe not. His performance against Bournemouth reserves in the cup was absolutely despicable, so I'll lean to the latter. £5m, sell on clause just in case, done deal IMO

 

[Flying Dutchman 744]

At this point I'd take Air Miles for him.

[Google Bot 3,275]

3 hours ago, Petriix said:

I've read lots of people suggesting that Rashica 'will tear up the Championship' or words to that effect, but I've seen zero evidence of the required attributes.

Well I can't help you on that front i'm afraid.  To me it's blindly obvious that Rashica on the right and Sarge in the middle would make us a far better outfit at this level.

If you think out of contract Cantwell and out of contract Pukki are the way to go then you should be very happy with what we have, currently.  

I see it as an utter balls-up personally.

His head wasn't on this club at all during pre-season or start of season - what the cause I haven't a clue - but that was a far different player than we even had in the prem.  And i'm putting that down to **** poor management, just as lobbing Tzolis out to another different country when we should be investing into these players that we've spent so much on.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Google Bot

[Petriix 2,835]

1 minute ago, Google Bot said:

Well I can't help you on that front i'm afraid.  To me it's blindly obvious that Rashica on the right and Sarge in the middle would make us a far better outfit at this level.

If you think out of contract Cantwell and out of contract Pukki are the way to go then you should be very happy with what we have, currently.  

I see it as an utter balls-up personally.

Whereas I see your 'blindingly obvious' as purely wishful thinking, as evidenced by actual performances. With the diamond, at least Sargent is in his best position without sacrificing Pukki. Sara offers far more than Rashica ever did. 

I am obviously concerned about the contract situation of our best players, but you can't force them to play for less than they can command elsewhere. I think both will be playing top-flight football next season, but not with Norwich. 

[Canario 204]

In answer to the op, yes I would. Can someone pass my bank details on to Galatasary please? 

 

[Google Bot 3,275]

3 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Are we? I can’t work out what system we play from one week to the next

Pretty clear we're playing a 433 isn't it?  Having wingers who are strong in one-on-one situations vs fullbacks is pretty much bread and butter requirement in my eyes.  The reason it looks so wrong is because we have no-one bringing the spark.   It's no wonder Onel gets the biggest cheer and love for his 15 minute cameo's.

[Petriix 2,835]

4 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Pretty clear we're playing a 433 isn't it?  Having wingers who are strong in one-on-one situations vs fullbacks is pretty much bread and butter requirement in my eyes.  The reason it looks so wrong is because we have no-one bringing the spark.   It's no wonder Onel gets the biggest cheer and love for his 15 minute cameo's.

We haven't played 4-3-3 since we lost to Burnley, and that change has coincided with generally better performances. Hopefully we never go back to it because it's fundamentally flawed with our group of players. 

[Google Bot 3,275]

4 minutes ago, Petriix said:

Whereas I see your 'blindingly obvious' as purely wishful thinking, as evidenced by actual performances.

No, it is blindingly obvious what he would do at this level. 

We've seen him turn Tsimikas and stick him on his **** in prem league games, so I think it's a safe assumption to say he could deal with the likes of Rotherham.  Championship would've been a great platform for him to be developed under a decent coaching system.

5 minutes ago, Petriix said:

I am obviously concerned about the contract situation of our best players, but you can't force them to play for less than they can command elsewhere.

You think it's correct for us to progress with Cantwell and Pukki, yet can't see any merit in playing a center half (Sarge) in his correct role, with someone who can get round players out wide right (Rashica).  At least you're getting your wish, is all I can say.

[Google Bot 3,275]

5 minutes ago, Petriix said:

We haven't played 4-3-3 since we lost to Burnley

Yes we have.

[Petriix 2,835]

7 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

yet can't see any merit in playing a center half (Sarge) in his correct role

Sargent is a centre forward and he certainly was playing as a striker against Rotherham. You seem pretty confused about formations and positions so there's probably not much point in continuing the conversation. Let's leave it as a difference of opinion. I obviously think mine is slightly more evidence based. 

[Petriix 2,835]

3 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Yes we have.

We played 4-2-3-1 against Stoke and QPR and a 4-4-2 diamond at Rotherham. If you couldn't see the fundamental difference from the 4-3-3 then I don't really know what to say, apart from that it probably devalues your opinion on the matter at hand. Probably best to leave it there. 

[Google Bot 3,275]

3 minutes ago, Petriix said:

I obviously think mine is slightly more evidence based. 

Sure thing.  We'll leave it here as it's getting embarassing and I clearly can't educate you on how playing players in the correct position and building assets works. 

[Petriix 2,835]

20 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Sure thing.  We'll leave it here as it's getting embarassing and I clearly can't educate you on how playing players in the correct position and building assets works. 

I'm not really sure why you've sorted the games into that order or what exactly you think it proves. In my calendar 25 October comes after all the other dates in the list. More telling is that none of the ones highlighted as 4-3-3 coincide with a victory. 

Embarrassing indeed. 

[Google Bot 3,275]

4 minutes ago, Petriix said:

More telling is that none of the ones highlighted as 4-3-3 coincide with a victory.

Because we don't have a player of Rashica's standard, that's the point being made if you listen.  Incredibly poor management of pegs and holes.

[ridgeman 131]

If we can sell him don't let Webber anywhere near the money.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

4 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Pretty clear we're playing a 433 isn't it?  Having wingers who are strong in one-on-one situations vs fullbacks is pretty much bread and butter requirement in my eyes.  The reason it looks so wrong is because we have no-one bringing the spark.   It's no wonder Onel gets the biggest cheer and love for his 15 minute cameo's.

I thought it looked more 451 most of the time 🤷‍♂️

[Google Bot 3,275]

22 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

I thought it looked more 451 most of the time 🤷‍♂️

The general point I was making is that we're playing a system that benefits from having wide players who can get round fullbacks. 

Just as Emi was Farke's gem with Aaron's pushing on behind as as wing back.  And once promoted Smith relied on Grealish who was relentless going at fullbacks to either cut in or go outside.

This is why I don't understand the situation with Rashica as on paper he should be a Smith player.  Smith came out in preseason and said he was happy to play in the championship too.  I just think sending him and Tzolis out was a cost-cutting excercise, and the financial report recently kinda backs that up.

But then it doesn't make sense to be spending 10m on Sara.

I really haven't a clue if there's an attitude problem, Smith (And staff) don't rate him, or we extended ourselves too much last season with the unexpected cost of sacking Farke and his team, and employing new coaching staff. 

It falls somewhere, but if Galatasary are keen to snap him up they're clearly impressed at this early stage.  To me it feels that he could be improving us this season, and I don't think he should be dismissed based on our entire team being pretty ****e last season.  Nor rule out mitigating circumstances for why he was completely off the boil in the few weeks he had here start of season.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Google Bot

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

15 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

The general point I was making is that we're playing a system that benefits from having wide players who can get round fullbacks. 

Just as Emi was Farke's gem with Aaron's pushing on behind as as wing back.  And once promoted Smith relied on Grealish who was relentless going at fullbacks to either cut in or go outside.

This is why I don't understand the situation with Rashica as on paper he should be a Smith player.  Smith came out in preseason and said he was happy to play in the championship too.  I just think sending him and Tzolis out was a cost-cutting excercise, and the financial report recently kinda backs that up.

But then it doesn't make sense to be spending 10m on Sara.

I really haven't a clue if there's an attitude problem, Smith (And staff) don't rate him, or we extended ourselves too much last season with the unexpected cost of sacking Farke and his team, and employing new coaching staff. 

It falls somewhere, but if Galatasary are keen to snap him up they're clearly impressed at this early stage.  To me it feels that he could be improving us this season, and I don't think he should be dismissed based on our entire team being pretty ****e last season.  Nor rule out mitigating circumstances for why he was completely off the boil in the few weeks he had here start of season.

I don’t think it really ever looked like he wanted to be here this season when I saw him okay before he went on loan. By the time he left he was 4th choice behind Sargent, Cantwell and Hernandez. It was probably a simple decision of do we think it’s worth paying our 4th choice the money he was on when someone wanted to take him and pay towards if not all the costs. Factor into that too Smith had an obvious liking for Rowe and Springett both of whom can play similar roles. I think they made the right call based on his on field output in the early part of the season. 

[Google Bot 3,275]

1 hour ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Factor into that too Smith had an obvious liking for Rowe and Springett both of whom can play similar roles. I think they made the right call based on his on field output in the early part of the season. 

Oh definetly, and as well as the obvious LB issues, Smith has had really bad luck with both Rowe and Springett, too.  I think that really plays in to my personal dissapointment that we haven't got Rashica here and so many are supporting the view that we should just cut our losses with him.

Don't get me wrong, if it is him with the attitude issue and didnt want to play for us then he can go screw himself.  But I can't rule out this a primarily financial decision and one that Smith was presented with in order to bolster central/defensive midfield positions - and probably known towards the end of the prem season.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Google Bot

[Indy 3,298]

I think at 26 he’s not exactly a youngster who will improve much, he’s at his peak in age and really hasn’t cut it with us, so I’d happily take a decent return and move on, we can’t afford to keep him, then lose him on a free ala Naismith.

Ultimately it’s up to the club on his valuation and if they’re happy to move him on at a loss or take a chance on him next season.

[Google Bot 3,275]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

Ultimately it’s up to the club on his valuation and if they’re happy to move him on at a loss or take a chance on him next season.

Feels like we're asset stripping at a massive loss to me.  Just over 12 months ago we brought in £30m+ for Emi, plus the prem windfall, which funded our spending spree and loan deals that summer.

Sara potentially could follow this same trend being discussed with Milot (£5m loss in 12 month period) which leaves us end of this season with two key assets in Sarge and Aarons. 

At that point you start to wonder if we should've just pocketed the prem league/Emi money and invested it into the stadium - at least we'd have a 30k seater for future fans. 

For a club that is built on self efficiency and priding itself on growing players, we've become incredibly wasteful overnight.

Edited November 10, 2022 by Google Bot

[Six Pack 93]

I don't understand why people here are wanting a quick sale of Rashica ? At the beginning of last season  he was our most effective attacker from a pretty lame group of players. He processed speed on the wing and a good firm shot. Certainly I was disappointed when he got injured. He wasn't the same when he came back. I don't know if it was one of those knocks that you don't fully recover from or the change of manager (from Farke to Smith).  Either way his confidence has been affected. From looking good against Premier league defenders to very average against Championship defenders. Whose to blame here ? I've seen what he can do, so why all this hatred towards him ? Smith & Shakespeare have come in and have not been able to "coach" a good player to playing to his potential !

Coaching isn't just putting eleven men on the pitch and asking them to play to a system. What about man-management, developing players skills and and working on their weaknesses ? We employ about a thousand people and we don't have the resources to help a good player to play to his potential ? Why do Galatasaray want him ? Cos he's a good player and they've got a good coach !   If you buy a new Bentley and it's not working well - you don't just sell it 2nd hand for half the price - you get an expert in to look under the bonnet ! We are pissing away money because of these idiots running our football management. Rachica is one of our best direct players - I don't want to sell him for peanuts before seeing what he can do with good coaching !

[komakino 272]

7 hours ago, Google Bot said:

Feels like we're asset stripping at a massive loss to me.  Just over 12 months ago we brought in £30m+ for Emi, plus the prem windfall, which funded our spending spree and loan deals that summer.

Sara potentially could follow this same trend being discussed with Milot (£5m loss in 12 month period) which leaves us end of this season with two key assets in Sarge and Aarons. 

At that point you start to wonder if we should've just pocketed the prem league/Emi money and invested it into the stadium - at least we'd have a 30k seater for future fans. 

For a club that is built on self efficiency and priding itself on growing players, we've become incredibly wasteful overnight.

Webber's wasted the Emi money and showed that the club was not remotely serious about staying in the EPL, as none of the purchases were good enough to play in it.

I spoke to somebody at the club last season as he echoed many that they couldn't understand why he bought 8 or 9 players, instead of buying 3/4 players of a much better standard. 'The worst intake of players we've ever had'. 

The club have been talking about redeveloping the City Stand for as long as I can remember. At an event at CR around 2001, I was told by a club official - usually an ex player - that the club will develop the stand when 'we next get promoted'. I've been sold that line several times since and as we all know, it never happens as there will always be an excuse not to do it. 

Milot has sadly offered nothing and given this failed purchase by Webber, almost any club in our position would take the money. Whether that would be wisely spent is another matter, as the club is more about existence and keeping the doomed self funding model afloat with our hapless majority shareholders. 

[Capt. Pants 4,228]

5 hours ago, Six Pack said:

I don't understand why people here are wanting a quick sale of Rashica ? At the beginning of last season  he was our most effective attacker from a pretty lame group of players. He processed speed on the wing and a good firm shot. Certainly I was disappointed when he got injured. He wasn't the same when he came back. I don't know if it was one of those knocks that you don't fully recover from or the change of manager (from Farke to Smith).  Either way his confidence has been affected. From looking good against Premier league defenders to very average against Championship defenders. Whose to blame here ? I've seen what he can do, so why all this hatred towards him ? Smith & Shakespeare have come in and have not been able to "coach" a good player to playing to his potential !

Coaching isn't just putting eleven men on the pitch and asking them to play to a system. What about man-management, developing players skills and and working on their weaknesses ? We employ about a thousand people and we don't have the resources to help a good player to play to his potential ? Why do Galatasaray want him ? Cos he's a good player and they've got a good coach !   If you buy a new Bentley and it's not working well - you don't just sell it 2nd hand for half the price - you get an expert in to look under the bonnet ! We are pissing away money because of these idiots running our football management. Rachica is one of our best direct players - I don't want to sell him for peanuts before seeing what he can do with good coaching !

I don't see why people want us to move quickly to lose about 50%, nearly £5m on a player.

Milo wasn't great at the start of the season but he wasn't the only one. How many games did he actually have to try and improve?

We haven't heard the club's view of his valuation, but I would hope it's a lot higher than the derisory amount Gallatasary will allegedly offer. If it isn't then I want to hear Webber's explanation why we've squirted all this money away on one player.

I'm also struggling to understand why we haven't included a sell on clause as part of the loan deal if we wanted to sell him.