Are we all happy tonight?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,542]

11 minutes ago, kirku said:

Narrator: smacking a child is not "classed as torture in human rights law". It is still legally acceptable in England, with the UK being the first signatory of the ECHR.

 

The council of Europe maintains that any form of smacking constitutes a form of torture. 

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20333245.html

Edited November 6, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[kirku 1,332]

12 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

The council of Europe maintains that any form of smacking constitutes a form of torture. 

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-20333245.html

That has nothing to do with "human rights law". 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,542]

23 minutes ago, kirku said:

That has nothing to do with "human rights law". 

Factually incorrect. The Council of Europe has worked with the ECHR on the subject.

Both smacking and branding with a poker breach article 3 of the ECHR, the prohibition of torture meaning they are both torture under the ECHR. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[PockthorpePete 331]

21 hours ago, Canario said:

 Most valuable player might be better for us anyway since anyone half decent will get sold on

That needs to stop. Players should be told they have to ignore offers to treble their wages or return to the PL....or even play in the Champions League.

Only don't tell York, Luton, Coventry, San Paolo, Ipswich etc that

[nutty nigel 7,528]

2 hours ago, kirku said:

It's always been Player Of The Season, hasn't it?

I still call it the Barry Butler. 💛⚽💚

I'm still happy too🙃

 

[Canaryonthecommon 5]

10 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I still call it the Barry Butler. 💛⚽💚

I'm still happy too🙃

 

Thread back on track.

I’m still happy too, man

[PockthorpePete 331]

7 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I still call it the Barry Butler. 💛⚽💚

I'm still happy too🙃

 

I thought they had offered you the part of Sleepy this year ?

[nutty nigel 7,528]

19 minutes ago, PockthorpePete said:

I thought they had offered you the part of Sleepy this year ?

Happy, Sleepy, Dopey I'll take any of them. When they offer you Doc you know the end is nigh...

[kirku 1,332]

8 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Factually incorrect. The Council of Europe has worked with the ECHR on the subject.

Both smacking and branding with a poker breach article 3 of the ECHR, the prohibition of torture meaning they are both torture under the ECHR. 

Is that why you can only find a clickbait article from 2015 to support this bizarre claim?

Smacking children is still legal in a vast majority of the world and there is no equivalence to "torture with a hot poker".

There also isn't "international human rights law" in any real sense but I didn't want to open that can of worms.

Edited November 7, 2022 by kirku

[canarybubbles 1,915]

1 minute ago, kirku said:

Is that why you can only find a clickbait article from 2015 to support this bizarre claim?

Smacking children is still legal in a vast majority of the world and there is no equivalence to "torture with a hot poker".

There also is really "international human rights law" in any real sense but I didn't want to open that can of worms.

I think there's a negative missing in your last sentence? If so, I agree with you.

[kirku 1,332]

1 minute ago, canarybubbles said:

I think there's a negative missing in your last sentence? If so, I agree with you.

Yeah, I edited out the typo

[littleyellowbirdie 2,542]

1 hour ago, kirku said:

Is that why you can only find a clickbait article from 2015 to support this bizarre claim?

Smacking children is still legal in a vast majority of the world and there is no equivalence to "torture with a hot poker".

There also isn't "international human rights law" in any real sense but I didn't want to open that can of worms.

Are you really dismissing the Irish Examiner as fake news? Jesus, and you accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist. 

The Council of Europe's own document on the subject. 

https://rm.coe.int/children-and-corporal-punishment-the-right-not-to-be-hit-also-a-childr/16806da87b

The UK was a founding member of the Council of Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe.

The UK falls under the auspices of the ECHR and the CoE so it's absolutely relevant to us as a body with official capacity to call for members to properly enforce relevant human rights law domestically, as it has done so over corporal punishment for both the UK and Ireland.

Another article from the irish examiner accusing the UK of attacking human rights law of recent years. More clickbait? 

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40989098.html

Here's some info about the CoE field office in Ukraine helping document the human rights violations in Ukraine by Russia. 

https://www.coe.int/en/web/kyiv

Hell, maybe the Council of Europe, the ECHR, and  all human rights law is just fake news? What do you think, Kirku? Doing so would make it rather difficult to censure Putin for his actions in Ukraine, mind.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[kirku 1,332]

17 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Are you really dismissing the Irish Examiner as fake news? Jesus, and you accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist. 

The Council of Europe's own document on the subject. 

https://rm.coe.int/children-and-corporal-punishment-the-right-not-to-be-hit-also-a-childr/16806da87b

The UK was a founding member of the Council of Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Europe.

The UK falls under the auspices of the ECHR and the CoE so it's absolutely relevant to us as a body with official capacity to call for members to properly enforce relevant human rights law domestically, as it has done so over corporal punishment for both the UK and Ireland.

Another article from the irish examiner accusing the UK of attacking human rights law of recent years. More clickbait? 

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40989098.html

Here's some info about the CoE field office in Ukraine helping document the human rights violations in Ukraine by Russia. 

https://www.coe.int/en/web/kyiv

Hell, maybe the Council of Europe, the ECHR, and  all human rights law is just fake news? What do you think, Kirku? Doing so would make it rather difficult to censure Putin for his actions in Ukraine, mind.

No, I didn't say it was "fake news" I said it was a clickbait article which has resulted in you claiming that smacking children is legally the same as branding someone with a hot poker. Which is patently nonsense.

"The UK falls under the auspices of the ECHR and the CoE so it's absolutely relevant to us as a body with official capacity to call for members to properly enforce relevant human rights law domestically, as it has done so over corporal punishment for both the UK and Ireland."

Smacking children is still legal in England. Branding them with a hot poker is not. "International human rights law" doesn't exist.

Hope that clears it up for you.

[king canary 7,603]

This forum is just not an enjoyable place at the moment.

Win, lose, draw it is the same arguments being gone through by the same posters with very little actual discussion about the football or relitigating old issues around Farke or Webber.

 

[lake district canary 4,531]

16 hours ago, kirku said:

So surely calling a football player the "potm" is an entirely uncontroversial award that can be used in all situations?

I can't see why anyone would object to that. 

I don't object to it, potm is fine. What I object to the crippling politically correct policing of our language, the wiping out of traditions and history that will turn us into a society where extreme minority groups kick off at the slightest thing that doesn't fit with their world view and people go, woh, we'd better change it in case we are accused of some "ism".

Media and business fall over themselves backwards to try and please everyone so they can't be accused of anything - and that spreads through society.  I like the "man of the match" thing, it works, there's nothing wrong with it and we're turning into a nation of sops*.

 

*sops - "a thing of no great value given or done as a concession to appease someone whose main concerns or demands are not being met"

Edited November 7, 2022 by lake district canary

[kirku 1,332]

21 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I don't object to it, potm is fine. What I object to the crippling politically correct policing of our language, the wiping out of traditions and history that will turn us into a society where extreme minority groups kick off at the slightest thing that doesn't fit with their world view and people go, woh, we'd better change it in case we are accused of some "ism".

Media and business fall over themselves backwards to try and please everyone so they can't be accused of anything - and that spreads through society.  I like the "man of the match" thing, it works, there's nothing wrong with it and we're turning into a nation of sops*.

 

*sops - "a thing of no great value given or done as a concession to appease someone whose main concerns or demands are not being met"

“Whither are the manly vigour and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fribbles can never have descended in a direct line from the heroes of Potiers and Agincourt…”

1771

[littleyellowbirdie 2,542]

50 minutes ago, kirku said:

No, I didn't say it was "fake news" I said it was a clickbait article which has resulted in you claiming that smacking children is legally the same as branding someone with a hot poker. Which is patently nonsense.

"The UK falls under the auspices of the ECHR and the CoE so it's absolutely relevant to us as a body with official capacity to call for members to properly enforce relevant human rights law domestically, as it has done so over corporal punishment for both the UK and Ireland."

Smacking children is still legal in England. Branding them with a hot poker is not. "International human rights law" doesn't exist.

Hope that clears it up for you.

Smacking children in the UK is legal because the UK government says so in contravention of the international obligations it has signed up to. Based on the treaties the UK has signed and the obligations the UK has signed up to, it should not be legal to use any corporal punishment. 

International literally means 'between nations'; as the ECHR is a mulitlateral treaty between nations then it is an example of international law, whether or not every nation on the planet is a signatory or not. 

But you say it's nonsense in spite of the insistence of the CoE and the text of the ECHR based on your assertion that the ECHR doesn't matter, the Council of Europe doesn't matter, and international human rights law doesn't exist; Putin and Xi Jinping would like to thank you for your support. 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Google Bot 3,272]

Can't you weirdos go to the off-topic areas?  This thread needs a bullet putting in to it.

[BigFish 1,986]

25 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

 What I object to the crippling politically correct policing of our language, the wiping out of traditions and history

History is often written backwards in order to justify contemporary politics. As such we have some language, traditions and history that should be wiped out, or at least critically analysed. The major objection from RWNJs, not implying you are one Lakey, is they can no longer abuse, self-justify and discriminate.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,542]

3 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Can't you weirdos go to the off-topic areas?  This thread needs a bullet putting in to it.

Sorry, but Kirku's making stuff up on an important topic making something of what was originally a fairly throwaway comment. 

This is a good example of why political campaigning shouldn't intrude into sport though. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[hogesar 9,657]

52 minutes ago, king canary said:

This forum is just not an enjoyable place at the moment.

Win, lose, draw it is the same arguments being gone through by the same posters with very little actual discussion about the football or relitigating old issues around Farke or Webber.

 

You can't deny it's peak PinkUn that a thread asking if fans are happy with the result on Saturday has led to an argument on the European Court of Human Rights view on smacking children.

Edited November 7, 2022 by hogesar

[king canary 7,603]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

You can't deny it's peak PinkUn that a thread asking if fans are happy with the result on Saturday has led to an argument on the European Court of Human Rights view on smacking children.

 

[canarybubbles 1,915]

7 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Can't you weirdos go to the off-topic areas?  This thread needs a bullet putting in to it.

Warning! Warning! Weirdo alert! Weirdo alert! People who want to talk about politics and human rights!

Nice normal people don't talk about such things.

[Google Bot 3,272]

Just now, canarybubbles said:

Nice normal people don't talk about such things.

Blocked.

See how simple that is?

[canarybubbles 1,915]

14 minutes ago, hogesar said:

You can't deny it's peak PinkUn that a thread asking if fans are happy with the result on Saturday has led to an argument on the European Court of Human Rights view on smacking children.

Personally I like this aspect of the Pink Un forum, that it can go off-topic into other areas. The only thing that cheeses me off is when one of the interminable squabbles breaks out, two posters start insulting each other, and the thread is ruined.

[Capt. Pants 4,225]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

This forum is just not an enjoyable place at the moment.

Win, lose, draw it is the same arguments being gone through by the same posters with very little actual discussion about the football or relitigating old issues around Farke or Webber.

 

Can we have our football forum back and anything else fcuk off to 'non football'

[kirku 1,332]

37 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Sorry, but Kirku's making stuff up on an important topic making something of what was originally a fairly throwaway comment. 

This is a good example of why political campaigning shouldn't intrude into sport though. 

I'll leave it here - people can decide for themselves whether smacking children is the same as branding them with hot pokers, or whether POTM awards are analogous to russian war propaganda; and which of those positions might be a bit far fetched.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,542]

1 hour ago, kirku said:

I'll leave it here - people can decide for themselves whether smacking children is the same as branding them with hot pokers, or whether POTM awards are analogous to russian war propaganda; and which of those positions might be a bit far fetched.

I did not say that smacking and branding with hot pokers are 'the same'; I said they are both classified as forms of torture and have provided the details of how this applies in international law to which the UK is signatory, illustrating how same principles can apply in situations of dramatically different degrees of gravity. 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[nutty nigel 7,528]

3 hours ago, king canary said:

This forum is just not an enjoyable place at the moment.

Win, lose, draw it is the same arguments being gone through by the same posters with very little actual discussion about the football or relitigating old issues around Farke or Webber.

 

I think it's because so many are not happy.

Now I'm not convinced that is football related. I think the anticipated reset after Covid didn't happen. Actually it happened in reverse and folk are even more divided about everything. I think that's manifested itself into football.

There's some great football threads on here though. If they're what posters really want.

[PockthorpePete 331]

12 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Happy, Sleepy, Dopey I'll take any of them. When they offer you Doc you know the end is nigh...

I was offered the part of Snow White in our village panto. I'm not sure if others see me the same way I do. Still, that's all behind me now.