*** The Official 2022 World Cup Thread ***

[Well b back 3,190]

21 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Once more with feeling

Edit: to add to this: he now has 50% of all England's knockout wins in major tournaments since 1966. Six before him, six under him.

Indeed 

Worth noting in our last 13 finals tournament games we have only been beaten once and that was not in the 90 or 120 minutes, but to Italy on Penalties.

 

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

1 hour ago, Surfer said:

Refusing to take on the full back has nothing to do with mixing it up. Holding onto the ball in the opposition half may indeed make sense, but the constant passing back to the goalkeeper is inviting a very costly mistake. 

Couldn't disagree more. Changing what the team does in the game depending on circumstances has everything to do with mixing it up. Also, a key reason players don't mind passing back to Pickford is that he's adept with the ball at his feet.

[Well b back 3,190]

9 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

Pretty much same thoughts here.

We're set up to counter which in theory will be what's needed against the best sides but I don't think Southgate has got the mentality for it. He keeps the camp happy but I don't think we have that edge the best sides have.

That does not say a lot for our previous managers, as based on results in finals and qualifiers Southgate is now statistically far and away our best ever manager. It is a myth that we don’t beat top 10 teams in competitions.

[Well b back 3,190]

10 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Couldn't disagree more. Changing what the team does in the game depending on circumstances has everything to do with mixing it up. Also, a key reason players don't mind passing back to Pickford is that he's adept with the ball at his feet.

Indeed

I wish Man City would just boot the ball straight up the pitch, that would give the other teams a bit of a chance of getting the ball off them.

[Canary Jedi 573]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Not with them bleddy great numbers on the front!

Agree, replace number on front with Lotus logo
 

[percy varco 196]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

He wasn't fit for the start and we've not really had a need for him yet.

Could have give him a run out today instead of bringing Mount on. 

[hogesar 9,618]

18 minutes ago, percy varco said:

Could have give him a run out today instead of bringing Mount on. 

Mount offers more defensively, which is kind of sensible when you're 3-0 up in a knockout game.

[hogesar 9,618]

1 hour ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Once more with feeling

Edit: to add to this: he now has 50% of all England's knockout wins in major tournaments since 1966. Six before him, six under him.

Yep. The criticism by some on here is borderline insane, it really is.

"We've had an easy run" - no less / more so than plenty of other huge footballing nations wanting to win a World Cup or Euros. No more / less so than a long list of Southgates predecessors, all who have failed to do anything close to what Southgate has, with arguably as much / more comparable talent.

The fact Southgate is consistently delivering on this with young players in the squad and starting line-up should be admired, too.

[Well b back 3,190]

2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Yep. The criticism by some on here is borderline insane, it really is.

"We've had an easy run" - no less / more so than plenty of other huge footballing nations wanting to win a World Cup or Euros. No more / less so than a long list of Southgates predecessors, all who have failed to do anything close to what Southgate has, with arguably as much / more comparable talent.

The fact Southgate is consistently delivering on this with young players in the squad and starting line-up should be admired, too.

Not to mention how he has led the complete change in youth development and the academy / England set ups. A lot of those coming through now have enjoyed the benefit of the Southgate vision.

I remember everybody laughing when Southgate said by this World Cup we would be major contenders. I do feel now for all the abuse he has suffered, mainly from people not even interested in international football, wether we win this World Cup or not he will resign. It is only once we get the next loser in charge, that people will realise how good Southgate was in this role.

[Herman 9,713]

The most important stat.

 

[dylanisabaddog 4,867]

I think Southgate has always done well with the players available to him. In the past the draw has been kind to him but that luck has now run out. 

The difference this time is that he has Bellingham. And with Foden and Saka as well you never know. It is possible because at the moment there are several teams that look very good but none that stand out above the rest. 

It would be good if Southgate got the respect he deserves. It's a far more difficult job now than it was 60 years ago and he handles the pressure with dignity. Good luck to him. 

 

[Branston Pickle 3,635]

7 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Fair play to England. Deserved winners.

I do feel that Southgate deserves a lot more respect than he receives.

Yes, Robson, Capello, Venables were much better managers with more charisma, but Southgate has had to work with less talent and he's done well.

There's a club mentality there, and that doesn't just happen. Gareth Southgate has created it.

As a Scotland fan, I loathe saying it. But credit where it's due.

I don’t disagree as such, and haven’t criticised Southgate but it’s worth remembering we were utterly dire in the Nations Cup, didn’t win a match and we’re doubled by Hungary: we’ll be playing tier two sides next time.  That’s not good at all.

Coming out on top against three sides ranked in the late teens (and drawing against another) doesn’t suddenly make Southgate brilliant as those were games we shouldn’t have had a sniff of losing.  It’s playing the better sides that counts most and hopefully it will continue, but we’ve not exactly done anything we ‘shouldn’t’ have done yet.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[cambridgeshire canary 6,675]

Just hope this is the Frech team that turn up when we face them ..

 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,777]

7 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Yes, Robson, Capello, Venables were much better managers with more charisma, but Southgate has had to work with less talent and he's done well.

You think this side is less talented is than the ones Robson and Venables had? I'm not so sure about that. 

[hogesar 9,618]

40 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I don’t disagree as such, and haven’t criticised Southgate but it’s worth remembering we were utterly dire in the Nations Cup, didn’t win a match and we’re doubled by Hungary: we’ll be playing tier two sides next time.  That’s not good at all.

Coming out on top against three sides ranked in the late teens (and drawing against another) doesn’t suddenly make Southgate brilliant as those were games we shouldn’t have had a sniff of losing.  It’s playing the better sides that counts most and hopefully it will continue, but we’ve not exactly done anything we ‘shouldn’t’ have done yet.

Nations League are friendlies though - they're a chance to rotate etc and as international manager you're given such limited time with player who are far more focussed on their league football.

When it comes to tournament football, Southgate has done much better than any other manager in my lifetime. And other managers have had 'easy' matches but not been able to get through them. Southgate has.

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

Capello had more charisma? Not so sure on that one. Most dour and miserable looking manager we've ever had.

Not sure any of the current crop of international managers have charisma, possibly Van Gaal although he's not popular with the media. 

 

[Branston Pickle 3,635]

9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Nations League are friendlies though - they're a chance to rotate etc and as international manager you're given such limited time with player who are far more focussed on their league football.

When it comes to tournament football, Southgate has done much better than any other manager in my lifetime. And other managers have had 'easy' matches but not been able to get through them. Southgate has.

Not untrue, but we were relegated from a group containing Hungary who made us look dreadful.  I hope we continue in the tournament, but France is the first top tier side we’ll have faced - win that and Southgate will deserve the plaudits, just not yet…to date it’s a bit like Smith engineering a win over Millwall. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[yellowrider120 761]

8 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Fair play to England. Deserved winners.

I do feel that Southgate deserves a lot more respect than he receives.

Yes, Robson, Capello, Venables were much better managers with more charisma, but Southgate has had to work with less talent and he's done well.

There's a club mentality there, and that doesn't just happen. Gareth Southgate has created it.

As a Scotland fan, I loathe saying it. But credit where it's due.

Don't know which Capello you ever listened to but I would suggest that 'charisma' was way, way down the list of his qualities!

As for the paucity of talent Southgate has v the others you mentioned, how is this so? For two or three years now we have been told that England have the largest, most exciting array of talent ever. The multi million Sancho can't even make the squad whilst Maddison is likely to remain an unused sub. Teachers pet Mount has now lost his place yet he too is in this list of 'wonderful talent'. Robson (for example) with Gazza aside had nothing like this conveyor belt available to him. Capello had 'names' but they famously underperformed and you would be hard pressed to list 'exciting' talent that Venables had so much of that sat on the bench or at home. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,675]

27 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Capello had more charisma? Not so sure on that one. Most dour and miserable looking manager we've ever had.

Not sure any of the current crop of international managers have charisma, possibly Van Gaal although he's not popular with the media. 

 

That's just what being England manager does to a man

Edited December 5, 2022 by cambridgeshire canary

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

So while there is evidence of him taking us to a semi final and a final, there is yet any evidence of him winning anything.

I am happy that we did achieve those chances but just feel that a more adventurous manager may well have won one of those tournaments.

I do not buy into the argument that he was happy to wait last night. Senegal man marked us. And it was the brilliance of Bellingham and Foden that released us, not a cunning plan.

We have one of the world's best strikers and some top class forwards so its natural to want to attack. Watching endless passing between Maguire and Stones did not tempt Senegal last night. Yet they still managed chances. And I agree with Dixon commentating that sometimes something different from the norm is what changes the game. Last night it was individual brilliance.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

15 hours ago, Well b back said:

England, France Argentina or Holland are now at quite a disadvantage to Spain and Brazil as the former will have to peak in 3 consecutive games, whereas the latter should have a safe passage to the Semis.

Yes, I'd definitely much rather have Brazil's route to the final than the France/England route!!

 

There have been no upsets yet in the round of 16, it'll be interesting though to see if there are any among the rest of the games !

 

Certainly I think Spain have a tricky QF tie against Portugal (if that's how it turns out) and if Brazil underestimate Croatia (ditto) that's definitely a banana skin.  Korea, Morocco etc may still have something to say about these assumptions !

 

Assuming the 8 in the QFs are as expected, any of them realistically can win it.  You need a bit of luck, it will probably take at least one penalty shoot out win. 

 

I'd say at this point the strongest teams so far have been France, Brazil, Spain and England, but Holland have come good at the right time and Argentina always have a chance if Messi can roll back the years at a few key moments.

 

The good thing for England is that they've got through to the QFs at a canter, with no real injury concerns.  Whoever wins from France/England will be on a high and will fancy their chances of going all the way.

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

15 hours ago, Well b back said:

Bellingham saying a lot of you don’t know what you are talking about, in fact the words ‘ talking rubbish ‘ were used.

LOL if he reads the Pinkun it's perhaps an understandable comment ...🤣🤣🤣

[Mengo 821]

Japan v Croatia 🇭🇷  1-1

 

Extra  ⏲️ time.

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

Would love to see Japan go through here.

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

Japan poorer at pens than England!

[cambridgeshire canary 6,675]

Fair play to Japan for getting that far but you can tell which of the two sides was more experienced. Japan looked unsure, full of nerves and clearly had not been training or practicing for pens meanwhile Croatia took it like it was just a training exercise

Edited December 5, 2022 by cambridgeshire canary

[Mengo 821]

4 minutes ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

Japan poorer at pens than England!

Disappointing game to be honest and Shìt penalties 😕.  

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

Still no surprises in the R of 16. The remaining big teams will start to get nervous!

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

Game over. Only Brazil would get a decision like that.

[city4eva 207]

2 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Game over. Only Brazil would get a decision like that.

Looked like a pen to me