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TeemuVanBasten

I regret calling for Farke's dismissal...

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Abuse via morse code, we've hit new heights people! 🙂

It's very easy to have regrets in hindsight because we expected to run away with the league again - but, if we kept Farke in charge and Webber was the one to walk, you could never play out both scenarios to determine if we're in a worse or better shape now.

And let's be honest, it really isn't all that bad right at the moment... We're pulling up from a significant blip and atmosphere was a lot better tonight. 

I didn't realise how unlucky we were until watching the highlights when I just got back... Should really be in within a few points of 2nd right now.

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3 hours ago, repman said:

This was the problem with all of last season generally, the club essentially sold its soul in an attempt to stay in the PL. Looking back now it's easy to say we would take another relegation and try over and over to stay up while playing 'good football' in both divisions. This time last year nearly all fans would've sacked Farke in order to attempt to keep us up.

I wouldn't have sacked Farke to stay up.  Mainly because it was evident from a very early stage that the new recruits - with the very tenuous exception of Normann for a brief period - and the new formation, were patently not going to achieve that whoever was in charge.  And frankly anyone who claims that there was a massive upturn in results after Smith took over is ignoring the early season fixtures.  Who did we beat after that ?  Brentford under Farke then Southampton, a god-awful Everton side,  Burnley and an even-worse Watford team.

I would have completely accepted gradual development based on yo-yo parachute payments to incrementally improve and / or at least maintain the vision and identity that had been so painstakingly created over the previous three seasons. Particularly given that we had the COVID financial hole to fill.

It'll be interesting to see if Burnley undo all of the good work that Kompany has done this season on promotion or if they are looking towards a 'bigger plan.'   I suspect that they may tweak a few things but maintain the structure that got them there in the first place, just as Brentford have done, knowing that they may well get relegated but that they will be in a good position to bounce back.

 

 

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7 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

More than I regret voting for Brexit.

And that's saying something.

What were we thinking? What were the board thinking?

We can't blame Webber for this entirely, the fans had turned on Farke. They should have turned on Webber and his recruitment,  but they didn't they turned on Farke.

He was a great coach, lets be honest, is a source of regret, as I'm sure it is for a lot of people, that we didn't get behind him like Forest did with Cooper this season.

Cooper was set to be sacked, fans voiced their displeasure at this, recruitment team got sacked instead. That's what should have f*cking happened here isn't it, and Webber led the recruitment.

 

Please, stop with the “he was a great coach” BS! He wasn’t, if he was he would have coped better with the 2 times he led us in the EPL!

Good coach, definitely not great! 

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7 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

More than I regret voting for Brexit.

And that's saying something.

What were we thinking? What were the board thinking?

We can't blame Webber for this entirely, the fans had turned on Farke. They should have turned on Webber and his recruitment,  but they didn't they turned on Farke.

He was a great coach, lets be honest, is a source of regret, as I'm sure it is for a lot of people, that we didn't get behind him like Forest did with Cooper this season.

Cooper was set to be sacked, fans voiced their displeasure at this, recruitment team got sacked instead. That's what should have f*cking happened here isn't it, and Webber led the recruitment.

 

The issue isn't with sacking a fundamentally failing manager, it's replacing him with someone who has tried to bring a style of play to a squad built to play a different way without the wholesale change to bring about that style.

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7 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Nope. Impressed that you've actually started a thread calling for a dismissal for doing what you wanted. Maybe you should take it as a sign that you're utterly clueless. 

Or maybe it should be taken as a sign that although opinionated, TuBs is open minded enough to realise ( eventually) that he was wrong. Me n TuBs have had our runs ins......but if he is wrong, he will say so. Is that really so bad?

FWIW I was always of  the firm belief that Farke was a good  coach, who given better players would have performed better. There wasn't any more to squeeze out of the budget. We were as good as we were going to be. Bigger faster stronger players with the same or better technical abilities were out of our reach. Put Farke in charge of even Leicesters quality of players and he'd be fine. I have also always believed 433 only ' works' if you are as good if not better than your opposition. 4231 is , and has been my favoured formation to aid a solid yet flexible set up. 

Progress in Football is rarely linear , unless you have bottomless pockets. Pep? Good coach  yes, best in the world? , hard to say , has just demonstrated ( Haaland) that he certainly has access to the best tools , or toys , depending how seriously you take your footy.

When , due to it's early success, the five year plan morphed into the three year plan , that was us, including Webber 'listening to the noise ' instead of ignoring it.  

"Pave paradise,put up a Parking lot."

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1 hour ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Please, stop with the “he was a great coach” BS! He wasn’t, if he was he would have coped better with the 2 times he led us in the EPL!

Good coach, definitely not great! 

If you can't see how he formed and built our style in his first two seasons, then you can't recognise great coaching. I think we'd all agree ( except Birdyo of course) that DF wasn't perfect. I think you fail to take into account the limitations of the players.... That was our main problem. The fact that he got them playing well, so well in fact that many expected them to just keep improving shows a naivety in development expectations. 

Farke wasn't the problem and I'm pretty sure at this point that Smith is not the solution. In fact now we have 2 big problems rather than one.   

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26 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

If you can't see how he formed and built our style in his first two seasons, then you can't recognise great coaching. I think we'd all agree ( except Birdyo of course) that DF wasn't perfect. I think you fail to take into account the limitations of the players.... That was our main problem. The fact that he got them playing well, so well in fact that many expected them to just keep improving shows a naivety in development expectations. 

Farke wasn't the problem and I'm pretty sure at this point that Smith is not the solution. In fact now we have 2 big problems rather than one.   

If you mean what I think you mean, the two problems are intertwined, they go together, and we won't solve one without the other IMO.

Then there is the bigger, overarching problem of the need for a plan of succession. Maybe the American interest is the first step in this direction, but it could well be stalled, or even abandoned, if we don't sort out the two big problems PDQ.

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I didnt want Farke sacked at the time but let's be honest, that was a minority view at the time.

The Brentford game, whilst great to get a win, was very fortunate and the same weaknesses existed.

 

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Watford fans have never called for a managers head. The board just keep sacking them anyway.

Farke won championship title for you twice. The first time was entertaining and unexpected. The 2nd time was done by flat track bullying lesser teams using better players.

Having won the league twice in 3 seasons I think he deserved more. However we sacked Gracia 6 games after an FA Cup final and 11th place finish in prem.

 

Edited by Moosebadge

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Stick Emi in the current team and we would be as we were 2 years ago.

Everyone forgets how good he was in the Championship.

We just lack someone with his spark.

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18 minutes ago, Moosebadge said:

Watford fans have never called for a managers head. The board just keep sacking them anyway.

Farke won championship title for you twice. The first time was entertaining and unexpected. The 2nd time was done by flat track bullying lesser teams using better players.

Having won the league twice in 3 seasons I think he deserved more. However we sacked Gracia 6 games after an FA Cup final and 11th place finish in prem.

So? What's Watford got to do with any of this. 

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11 minutes ago, duke63 said:

Stick Emi in the current team and we would be as we were 2 years ago.

Everyone forgets how good he was in the Championship.

We just lack someone with his spark.

Emi was Championship cheat mode, he was almost unplayable second title season.

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16 minutes ago, duke63 said:

Stick Emi in the current team and we would be as we were 2 years ago.

Everyone forgets how good he was in the Championship.

We just lack someone with his spark.

We can't afford somebody with spark now because we blew the proceeds. 

I still don't understand which of Rashica or Tsoliz were supposed to be the playmaker we needed to replace Buendia.

It didn't have to be a Buendia tribute act, just a f*cking playmaker of some description. 

Dean Smiths Villa at least tried to replace Grealish with a quality playmaker in Emi Buendia.

Or signings didn't seem to have any rhyme or reason.

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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9 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

 

I hate this whole narrative that webber is some sort of transfer genius. We’ve only sold 1 player he’s bought in for profit all the others we’ve had to sell to make money have been academy graduates who would of been here regardless. It might be easier to argue we got where we did in-spite of Webber and his poor recruitment, there’s a lot mor Drmic than there is Pukki. 

Agree with this, Pukki and Buendia aside his transfer dealings have been as much "money pissed up the wall", as he claimed of his predecessor. 

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11 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Agree with this, Pukki and Buendia aside his transfer dealings have been as much "money pissed up the wall", as he claimed of his predecessor. 

In my mind the best way for the club to be self funded isn’t to constantly sell its best players but rather keep them and establish the club in the premier league. If we’d kept our best players now we would have an almost entirely self funded squad from the academy which I think would of been capable of doing well in the Prem. Imagine this team 

Gunn

Aarons, Godfrey, Omobamidele, Lewis

Gibbs, Hayden 

Buendia, Maddison, Cantwell

Pukki

thats only two players that haven’t come through our academy, we’d of saved the £80’000’000 we’d spent over the last two windows and more likely than not already be an established Prem side earning £150’000’000 a year in tv money and capable of spending a worth amount on players wages to keep the star players happy. 

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8 hours ago, Google Bot said:

 

And let's be honest, it really isn't all that bad right at the moment... We're pulling up from a significant blip and atmosphere was a lot better tonight. 

 

Both you and Hoggy have said this about the atmosphere bring better last night. Now I'll be honest I didn't go to the Sheff Utd game but it beggars the question just how bad was the atmosphere then?? 

Last night I thought the crowd, on both sides was flat as hell. I remember the days of 17000 in the 90s and we made much more noise back then, I think half the issue is the younger Barclay fans from back then are now family types either spread around the ground or not regulars anymore, and the younger support nowadays just aren't as loud. This isn't just a Norwich thing BTW, atmospheres in English grounds all around the country are terrible nowadays, maybe the younger generation are just too used to football 24/7 on tap these days? 

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2 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

This isn't just a Norwich thing BTW, atmospheres in English grounds all around the country are terrible nowadays, maybe the younger generation are just too used to football 24/7 on tap these days? 

I think you're probably right about how familiarity has made things different for modern supporters.

The build up to the World Cup has also been very apathetic, could be due to it being in the winter or in a country that people don't really associate with football but the first game is on Nov 20th and no-one seems to care.

Have we reached peak football?

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41 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

So? What's Watford got to do with any of this. 

I feel Watford and Norwich are two clubs who seem to have intertwined fortunes. Would not be suprised to see you at Wembley in May to break free from this. Always liked your club as impressed you filled stadium in Championship when poor. I was not happy when you thrashed us 3 0 at Vic Rd on my 40th birthday in Jan. I think we both have players to flat track bully the championship. But no where near good enough for prem. In my opiniin Watford shoud have gone for Farke as soon as you sacked him. Has a midas touch in this league. Although Bilic has started to get a tune out of us.

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10 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Not sure I really follow.

By logic, you should be happy. You got (ostensibly) what you wanted. Why wouldn't you stick with Smith?

Look at an average Farke lineup, and look at the starting XI yesterday. It's not a coincidence that the bulk of the football played under DF, more so than the names on the teamsheet, was progressive - some dare say, european - and there was a positive connection between fans and the club. Yesterday we started with Pukki and Sara. Good, right?

No reason to panic, though. City did well last night, and would've been well worth 3pts if we'd scored. All I want to see is sustained progression, medium to long term, even if it means we wait longer to get promoted again.

"Short term ism" is what got us in this position, rash decisions and fudged transfer policy. 

Beware what you wish for.

Edited by mrD66M

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As I have internet today on my travels thought I’d jump on a take a look…..nothing but the normal culprit starting arguments, if he doesn’t like what’s posted jumps on and starts. It’s monotonous to be honest, everyday the same ****s. Like TVB I’ve blocked him, he’s got all the hallmarks of Bill, City1st etc….. must be one in the same.

Anyhow back to OP, definitely can’t say I totally agree, I didn’t want Farke sacked but fully understood why he went, never wanted Smith and still don’t, as nice a bloke as he appears to be there’s a certain look at what I have done in his interview and really hasn’t got a huge amount to crow about.

Webber deserved to go in the summer for the shambles he caused, he was buying these player he signed Smith with massive grin saying he’d been his choice, his interaction with fans is questionable and I think there’s a fair few  want him to go, so should have gone in my view, but he’s bulletproof with this current set up. His choice when he goes.

Last night was flat atmosphere watching it on the TV, there’s definitely something missing and his reply to contracts makes me think they’re waiting to see how likely promotion is before opening high cost contracts, I can see Cantwell & Pukki walking in the summer with pre contract signed in January.

There are small signs of improvement but not one which can be said shows much quality. It’s certainly a season of let’s see what happens and come the summer could be one of huge changes. Reset time.

Edited by Indy

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1 hour ago, Ken Hairy said:

Agree with this, Pukki and Buendia aside his transfer dealings have been as much "money pissed up the wall", as he claimed of his predecessor. 

They've been much much worse under Webber over past two years, at least in terms of incoming talent. 

Rashica and Tsoliz is absolutely on par with Naismith and Van Wolfswinkel when it comes to identifying big money flops.

We got our money back on Leroy Fer I believe, and at least saw some flashes of genuine quality from him.

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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13 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

They've been much much worse under Webber over past two years, at least in terms of incoming talent. 

Rashica and Tsoliz is absolutely on par with Naismith and Van Wolfswinkel when it comes to identifying big money flops.

We got our money back on Leroy Fer I believe, and at least saw some flashes of genuine quality from him.

I thought Fer was a good signing he played well in a poor side. 

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3 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

If you can't see how he formed and built our style in his first two seasons, then you can't recognise great coaching. I think we'd all agree ( except Birdyo of course) that DF wasn't perfect. I think you fail to take into account the limitations of the players.... That was our main problem. The fact that he got them playing well, so well in fact that many expected them to just keep improving shows a naivety in development expectations. 

Farke wasn't the problem and I'm pretty sure at this point that Smith is not the solution. In fact now we have 2 big problems rather than one.   

Again it’s not great coaching it’s good coaching. A great coach would have kept us up and adapted a way of playing to do that, but he couldn’t do it could he? 

You mention the limitation of the players, but a GREAT coach would make players better to overcome those limitations, surely? 

So many people thinking he’s great, if he is great why is he not doing better with MG? 

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57 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

I thought Fer was a good signing he played well in a poor side. 

He was a bit hold and cold, depending on whether he looked up to it. Could be all over the shop one week and anonymous the next.

Could have done with a bit more of a grafter, but clearly had match changing ability and that's why he got another Prem move.

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4 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Or maybe it should be taken as a sign that although opinionated, TuBs is open minded enough to realise ( eventually) that he was wrong. Me n TuBs have had our runs ins......but if he is wrong, he will say so. Is that really so bad?

FWIW I was always of  the firm belief that Farke was a good  coach, who given better players would have performed better. There wasn't any more to squeeze out of the budget. We were as good as we were going to be. Bigger faster stronger players with the same or better technical abilities were out of our reach. Put Farke in charge of even Leicesters quality of players and he'd be fine. I have also always believed 433 only ' works' if you are as good if not better than your opposition. 4231 is , and has been my favoured formation to aid a solid yet flexible set up. 

Progress in Football is rarely linear , unless you have bottomless pockets. Pep? Good coach  yes, best in the world? , hard to say , has just demonstrated ( Haaland) that he certainly has access to the best tools , or toys , depending how seriously you take your footy.

When , due to it's early success, the five year plan morphed into the three year plan , that was us, including Webber 'listening to the noise ' instead of ignoring it.  

"Pave paradise,put up a Parking lot."

Bit in bold is key - and indeed applies to life in general, so I'll repeat it.

Progress is rarely linear.

This is probably why I'm more relaxed than many re. Smith's performance as manager/our performances on the field. We will have spells where we look very decent, and spells where we look turgid.

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1 hour ago, Canarywary said:

I fundamentally don't want us to become the sort of club who sacks managers when we're sitting in the play-offs.

Blimey, took this long for a sensible opinion to come in. This is pretty much how I feel. Besides, think we all know Smith will be here until the end of the season at the very least regardless of how we do.. Well, unless we end up liike Brom or Huddersfield who as it happens are two great examples of how things could be worse and how you should always be careful what you wish for

Edited by cambridgeshire canary
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Webber threw Farke under the bus to protect himself and didn’t have a clue about his replacement. Just so happened Smith became available.

Farke is proven in getting a team organised and walking through the championship.

Webber let Farke down on player budget and recruitment and has an overly high opinion himself.

The club should never have agreed to let Webber take time off to  go climbing when the club is in need of restructuring.

This has inflated his ego even more.

The connect between SW and head coach to fans is poor, I’m not even sure either like or want to be in this area. Farke on the other hand…

 

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12 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Nothing the clubs has done in the past 16 months has made any sense for me. BK8, the sale of Emi, the awful recruitment, the sacking of Farke after a win, the hiring of smith. It’s just all one car crash after another really. The latest thing being that interview from the FD who should of just stuck to his abacus 

The lack of real corporate governance makes sense of it all! 😉

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