So, what did we learn today?

[Unthink road 132]

Great result. OK performance. Hard to judge or learn where we are from today. 20 mins of exciting inter play, but the before and their goal still show room for improvement. Stoke created enough for me to think we look more Championship rather than Premier league potential. 

Hoping this is the turning point. We will see. Want Smith to be our greatest coach, as I would any of our coaches in the future. Great to be winning again. We will ultimately learn where we are as a club at the end of the season. 

[Canary Jedi 574]

17 minutes ago, hogesar said:

If it was a Premier League team then that second half free kick chance wouldn't have been a problem because 2 of their players were offside.

They had two good headed chances. One straight after we scored the first and one from Powell in the second half. There wasn't much more from them.

What about all those saves from Gunny?

[hogesar 9,618]

6 minutes ago, Canary Jedi said:

What about all those saves from Gunny?

Well they only had 4 shots on target. We had 9. Their goalkeeper was busier. 

[astro 358]

Our attack and fluidity of play clicked in the second half, but we still defend like rabbits in headlights. 

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

Learned today that the manager can make 6 changes and beat an inform side, such is the strength of our squad 👍 I've mentioned previously that our squad size and quality in this division is only matched by Watford who will likely go up with us. 

The likes of Blackburn, Burnley, Sheff Utd and QPR have similar sized squads, but nowhere near the same quality.

[shruk4 60]

Norwich did not look good first half. Hayden out for Nunez I'd say. And obviously Cantwell in for Dowell.

[Pyro Pete 1,889]

We learned that Sara is more skilful with his shoulder than many of our players are with their feet.

[Petriix 2,834]

15 minutes ago, shruk4 said:

Norwich did not look good first half. Hayden out for Nunez I'd say. And obviously Cantwell in for Dowell.

You might have missed the goal we conceded when Nunez gave the ball away then failed to recover. 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Really? Up until the substitutions, Stoke created more than we did. The difference was that we took our chance whereas Stoke were pretty wasteful, but I'd argue that in the first hour we created less than we did against Luton and Stoke had more opportunities than Luton did. 

 

Yeah, I'd be inclined to agree with this. We didn't deserve to be ahead at the time and we looked at our best after Sara, Cantwell and Nuñez were all introduced.

 Cantwell, Nunez and Sara behind Pukki then, Hayden and Gibbs DM - is this our best midfield and attack?

[Rottingdean canary 117]

Yes, I'd certainly keep Hayden in alongside Gibbs - with Gibbs pushing forward from time to time.  And Cantwell a definite starter

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

38 minutes ago, shruk4 said:

Norwich did not look good first half. Hayden out for Nunez I'd say. And obviously Cantwell in for Dowell.

Thing is, that could easily fail. There’s a bit of chat about dropping Hayden, but I’m not sure. He helped keep it together during a tough period… I know we looked better when the subs came and he went off, but that can happen late in a game. Doesn’t mean it’ll happen from the start. 

I think Cantwell especially, struggles for consistency  over 90 minutes. Impact sub may suit him. 

We desperately need some consistency, too many different players and systems. I think that starts with Hayden and Gibbs, with Hanley and one other next to him.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Creedence Clearwater Couto

[Van wink 2,994]

First time I have seen Hayden and on the basis of only today not that impressed. Presumably an off day?

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

1 minute ago, Van wink said:

First time I have seen Hayden and on the basis of only today not that impressed. Presumably an off day?

He’s a fairly limited player. Depends what you expect? 

He’ll sit in that CDM role and do a good job at holding position, breaking up play, and off loading quickly to a more creative teammate.

The sort of attributes we’ve missed since Tettey. 
 

 

[Capt. Pants 4,198]

Just now, Van wink said:

First time I have seen Hayden and on the basis of only today not that impressed. Presumably an off day?

Probably an unpopular comment but I'm not sure I rate him at all. Seems incredibly slow getting round the pitch. Hopefully there is more to come, but equally I hope we haven't committed to wasting good money on him. Gibbs is far better.

[Robert N. LiM 4,243]

Just now, Capt. Pants said:

Hopefully there is more to come

I'm sure there is. He's played three games after a long lay-off. I agree Gibbs looks very promising, but that's a tough position for a young player to play in week-in, week-out. Suspect Hayden is going to be very important for us this season.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

2 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

Yes, I'd agree with that. Whether we have a top-six manager, however, is up for discussion.

Well we're 5th so I guess going on the evidence so far the answer has to be 'yes!'. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

20 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Thing is, that could easily fail. There’s a bit of chat about dropping Hayden, but I’m not sure. He helped keep it together during a tough period… I know we looked better when the subs came and he went off, but that can happen late in a game. Doesn’t mean it’ll happen from the start. 

I think Cantwell especially, struggles for consistency  over 90 minutes. Impact sub may suit him. 

We desperately need some consistency, too many different players and systems. I think that starts with Hayden and Gibbs, with Hanley and one other next to him.

Hayden's a player we'll probably be able to do without for lower sides, but for the better quality sides he's going to be a must to reinforce the defence. 

[Petriix 2,834]

12 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Probably an unpopular comment but I'm not sure I rate him at all. Seems incredibly slow getting round the pitch. Hopefully there is more to come, but equally I hope we haven't committed to wasting good money on him. Gibbs is far better.

They're different prospects. Hayden's positioning is exemplary, as is his reading of the game. His movement is not. Gibbs has far more in terms of creativity, acceleration, touch, but doesn't come up to the same level on the other fronts. 

[Van wink 2,994]

25 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

He’s a fairly limited player. Depends what you expect? 

He’ll sit in that CDM role and do a good job at holding position, breaking up play, and off loading quickly to a more creative teammate.

The sort of attributes we’ve missed since Tettey. 
 

 

Yes I understand his role and it’s often one where a lot of the good work goes unnoticed, maybe my expectations were a little bit unrealistic but he did look very pedestrian at times, I put it down to him being way off full fitness.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

I think we learnt that,

- we have individual quality that other teams envy hugely. Pukki today was a class above and other very accomplished performances by Gunn, Cantwell, MacCallum and Gibbs. 
- our opposition gave us the win by failing to capitalise on their early possession, which was pretty dominant, and at 1-0 down an unbelievable chance with a free header. 
- Dowell should not be in the squad. Offers nothing and looked lost. 
- Smith picking Dowell and playing him on the wing is just bonkers. To do it for an entire half and then keep him on for another 10 after HT is mental. 
- Gibson is poor and stands out as such in our back line. I think Tomkinson should be in there as I see little wrong with his performance last time out to warrant being dropped - Smith happy to bring young players through? Why not play them then? 
- we still only manage 20 minutes of good football per game (at most). Today it was the last 20. Other sides will score in that time and heads will go down. 
- Smith almost never picks the best team from the start, why do we always improve after our changes? He seems not to know his best 11 and this far in I’m surprised. 
- our football is not entertaining, despite Smith’s claims that this is his brand. For 60 minutes we were out passed by Stoke. We need to see the last 20 for 70 minutes per game to go up. Why can we not produce? 
- we looked better without Max. Hate to say it. 
- like it or not Smith is staying (I don’t like it) and the result is very welcome. But is it promotion worthy? Jury massively out. It’s Stoke ffs. Just hope QPR have started a downturn in time for them coming our way in the week or it could be back to feeling depressed by Wednesday 😂

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,780]

1 hour ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

 Cantwell, Nunez and Sara behind Pukki then, Hayden and Gibbs DM - is this our best midfield and attack?

Harsh on Ramsey, but I'd be pretty disappointed to see any fewer than three out of those four starting in midfield on Wednesday.

[Branston Pickle 3,638]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

Probably an unpopular comment but I'm not sure I rate him at all. Seems incredibly slow getting round the pitch. Hopefully there is more to come, but equally I hope we haven't committed to wasting good money on him. Gibbs is far better.

I think it’s a bit harsh to judge yet, he’s still making his way to match-sharpness.  I did wonder if he’d actually be being used as a starter quite yet if it weren’t for injuries/Kenny being out.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

5 hours ago, daly said:

3-1 more than flattered us 

 

Yes it could easily have been the other way round. They missed some sitters. Nice result but it was not a convincing performance 

[Monty13 2,229]

3 hours ago, shruk4 said:

Norwich did not look good first half. Hayden out for Nunez I'd say. And obviously Cantwell in for Dowell.

Think that’s a little harsh on Hayden. He looks exactly what he is, a man who has played very little football in the last year. He did some good defensive work I thought.

[percy varco 196]

That I have not changed my mind despite the win. Smith out. 

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

33 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Yes it could easily have been the other way round. They missed some sitters. Nice result but it was not a convincing performance 

Until we wheeled on the subs I’d say both teams did their best to send the crowd to sleep.

Only real positive was three points

[hogesar 9,618]

20 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Think that’s a little harsh on Hayden. He looks exactly what he is, a man who has played very little football in the last year. He did some good defensive work I thought.

Agreed. He's clearly not up to match speed but he reads the game well, positions himself well and at least has the discipline to stick to his role.

[shruk4 60]

1 hour ago, Monty13 said:

Think that’s a little harsh on Hayden. He looks exactly what he is, a man who has played very little football in the last year. He did some good defensive work I thought.

Yeah Im not saying never play him again. But him and Gibbs together are maybe not dynamic enough together. And if I have to chose to have one on the pitch its Gibbs.

[Barham Blitz 652]

He looks somewhat ponderous at the moment I agree but I think it is evident that Hayden is still feeling his way back in physically and playing within himself.  We saw in his debut where he put in a lengthy sprint to win back possession in the left back role and had us all worried that he'd injured himself again that he has some pace.  But his defensive nous and leadership are something we don't have elsewhere in the squad.  He isn't any less mobile than Tettey I suspect and better on the ball and we've been lamenting the latter's absence (Skipp aside) for a few seasons now.

I'm fairly certain he'll be starting - fitness permitting - from now on and as I've said before I suspect he'll be captain within a couple of seasons if we sign him permanently.

[City fan 78]

Yesterday's game proved nothing. Stoke are such a poor team, the result just papered over the cracks. It just prolongs the slow painful departure of Smith.