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Mr.Carrow

Cantwell

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I guess the point of my post went over your head...

Not in career achievements, no - I'm comparing certain aspects of both those players' personalities to Cantwell. 

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It's been great to see the old Todd back this season.  I hope it continues, and that he gets the game time he deserves.

I imagine some of the blame for depriving us of the 'real Todd' over the past two seasons lies with Webber's 'unfortunate'
and unprofessional remarks in his 2019-20 post-relegation interview [when quizzed about his poor recruitment, Webber's desperate gaze fell upon the hapless Todd and, being a straight talker who shoots from the hip, Webber deflected with "at least I'm not sulking or lying on a football pitch hoping someone takes a picture of me"].  I'm sure we all remember that man-management masterclass. In an ideal world, Todd would have ignored Webber, as he generally deserves, but which of us, aged 22, and blessed with an odious, unprofessional and narcissistic boss would have been motivated to run through walls for him?

Anyway, hopefully Todd has grown older and wiser, and hopefully Webber is on his way out. perhaps, if we're lucky, this could clear the way for a few more seasons of the real Todd at Carrow Road?

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Well if Smith is still here to have an opinion on Cantwell's contract, I'd like to think he'd be persuading Webber (if he's still here) to do his best to keep Todd. Smith should have a say on contract renewals as well as new signings.

 

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I think when you combine the points discussed above about Webber’s attitude to Cantwell and the general tendency to undervalue talent that has come up from within a club and add the venomous attitude of part of the fanbase to him, unfortunately I see zero chance of Cantwell being here after the end of this season. It’s just a case of where he’ll move to. I think his tweet should be read in this light, strikes me as an honest description of where he is.

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3 hours ago, It's Character Forming said:

I think when you combine the points discussed above about Webber’s attitude to Cantwell and the general tendency to undervalue talent that has come up from within a club and add the venomous attitude of part of the fanbase to him, unfortunately I see zero chance of Cantwell being here after the end of this season. It’s just a case of where he’ll move to. I think his tweet should be read in this light, strikes me as an honest description of where he is.

Agree with this. Hopefully he has matured to know what he has to do to be successful - be 100% focussed regardless of where he is and regardless of outside distractions.  Looked pretty good at times on Saturday - we need more of that. 

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16 hours ago, mrD66M said:

I guess the point of my post went over your head...

Not in career achievements, no - I'm comparing certain aspects of both those players' personalities to Cantwell. 

Know them well do you? 

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Based on his Social Media post I’d personally assume one of two things, either a new contract is very unlikely to be agreed or Todd has had an offer and he’s not happy with it.

Edited by Monty13

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30 minutes ago, mrD66M said:

About as much as you do Cantwell.

Ooooh what a burn 😂

So your comeback says you don’t know Cantwell, Joe Cole or Beckham. But you can make a really good claim to compare aspects of their personality. Good one 😂

Edited by SwearyCanary

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41 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

Ooooh what a burn 😂

So your comeback says you don’t know Cantwell, Joe Cole or Beckham. But you can make a really good claim to compare aspects of their personality. Good one 😂

Apologies, didn't realise I was replying to a teenager... 

Comeback? burns? You sound like my nephew... might as well put Fortnite on and bust some moves, I would rather discuss football and related stuff than that. 

If you don't agree with my post that's cool too, but I guess the way you show your maturity is by throwing shade at people. Well done.

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4 minutes ago, mrD66M said:

Apologies, didn't realise I was replying to a teenager... 

Comeback? burns? You sound like my nephew... might as well put Fortnite on and bust some moves, I would rather discuss football and related stuff than that. 

If you don't agree with my post that's cool too, but I guess the way you show your maturity is by throwing shade at people. Well done.

You’re right of course, people under 40 shouldn’t possibly use vernacular that the youth use. Except that’s complete bo**ocks and they can. I will however enjoy ‘busting some moves’ this evening, but then I’m glad you’re ‘cool’ with that, just like me being ‘cool’ with your hypocrisy (or is cool an acceptable word to use? Would like your approval on this) and lack of acknowledgment that you don’t know the players you compared Cantwell to, so your original point was not really based on anything whatsoever. it’d be like me saying I think Pukki is our version of Juliet Bradbury, because he looks like he might quite like hiking in the Lake District. 

Obviously it’s a sensitive subject though, otherwise you’d not have said your post went ‘over my head’ and insinuated I was somehow unable to understand your point because of my intellectual inferiority. Perhaps if you don’t want to be responded to in kind you shouldn’t cast the first stone. 

Laterz fam 

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21 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

You’re right of course, people under 40 shouldn’t possibly use vernacular that the youth use. Except that’s complete bo**ocks and they can. I will however enjoy ‘busting some moves’ this evening, but then I’m glad you’re ‘cool’ with that, just like me being ‘cool’ with your hypocrisy (or is cool an acceptable word to use? Would like your approval on this) and lack of acknowledgment that you don’t know the players you compared Cantwell to, so your original point was not really based on anything whatsoever. it’d be like me saying I think Pukki is our version of Juliet Bradbury, because he looks like he might quite like hiking in the Lake District. 

Obviously it’s a sensitive subject though, otherwise you’d not have said your post went ‘over my head’ and insinuated I was somehow unable to understand your point because of my intellectual inferiority. Perhaps if you don’t want to be responded to in kind you shouldn’t cast the first stone. 

Laterz fam 

Since you're younger I'll replace Beckham and J.Cole with Lingard and Calvert-Lewin. My main point still stands.

Just for you.

Edit - I said "it went over your head" but not as pointing at anyone's intellectual capacity or anything of that sort, I would not do such a thing. I do know my take is quite a bit "out there" so can't assume someone would know what I mean..😅

Probably weak wording on my part. Still appreciate a bit of good natured trolling though 🤣

Edited by mrD66M

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32 minutes ago, mrD66M said:

Since you're younger I'll replace Beckham and J.Cole with Lingard and Calvert-Lewin. My main point still stands.

Just for you.

This is your original point 

We all have cult heroes. Cantwell is just more like Emi used to be before his mind was at ease, wildly inconsistent, moments of genius in between moments where he can't give a rat's. Mercurial. Sort of cult antihero?

If a player like Beckham or J.Cole was born in Norfolk.. would that be him?

Let’s take it systematically. 
Emi’s wild inconsistency: 39 games, 15 goals and 17 assists (Cantwell 33, 6 and 7 respectively)

despite Joe Cole and David Beckham being well within my generation of player, I’ll ignore them as you offer alternatives and, as I already made clear their careers have no mirror to Cantwell’s wild inconsistency. 
Lingard same season (although in EPL rather than championship) 15 games 9 goals 5 assists. Chose not to move to West Ham and fight for place at MUFC. Didn’t get games, moved to NFFC, played few in a team currently bottom. Definitely inconsistent but way above Cantwell.

Calvert-Lewin EPL 33 games 16 goals 3 assists. Huge injury problems, Cantwell doesn’t share this issue. 

Cantwell’s mercurial cult like talents relate to maybe 3 games in the EPL, where incidentally Buendia was playing alongside and between now and then, one really good reverse pass in a win against Stoke city. 

So to summarise. Cantwell isn’t like Emi used to be, he is consistently inconsistent. He shows flashes of good play, but I could argue that about Ben Gibson (at a push). He is not of the quality you try to make a comparison with (any one of the 4) and he is not a mercurial talent. He is a decent mid championship player who has played well a handful of times. He is an anti hero only in the sense that he didn’t want to sign a new contract (totally fine) and allegedly sulked via some ill advised use of social media - that sorts out the anti bit. And he is a ‘hero’ because of the aforementioned Man City game, a pass b Stoke last week and he lives locally and gives prezzies to kids at Christmas, all for the sheer selflessness of it (handily documented on social media 😂

Joking aside, that’s a nice gesture by the lad. But in the years to come it’ll be up to him to either actually truly become a cult anti hero (Lambert), a cult hero (like Holt, Hoolahan, Roberts, etc) or just a person who played for Norwich a few times in between not wanting to play for Norwich s few times. 

Edited by SwearyCanary
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19 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

before his mind was at ease

Emi's first few months for us. He was inconsistent, rash, non-committal, and not great. Then he evolved his game, found form and stayed there. Cantwell found enough form for a few matches then dropped off a cliff..

I liked Buendia a lot because he made crazy **** happen on the pitch, and became more effective as time went on. Cantwell had a different role to Emi, when both were playing simultaneously - not really a winger, not really a 10, yet sometimes pops in attacking positions and darting runs beyond the Goat. Sometimes he was one of them players that knows how to slow the tempo of games when in possession. 

Great Post, by the way. I like it.

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37 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

He shows flashes of good play, but I could argue that about Ben Gibson (at a push)

This is too good 🤣👏👏👍

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The similarities I point to between Todd and the others are about how they display themselves for the cameras and whatnot. Some of what Cantwell does on the pitch remind me of Cole, with the others is more their attention to fashion trends. Of course Beckham is the most successful of them, and for me it's easy to imagine Cantwell trying to mould his image in that direction, with a Norfolk twist, obviously 😁

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4 minutes ago, mrD66M said:

The similarities I point to between Todd and the others are about how they display themselves for the cameras and whatnot. Some of what Cantwell does on the pitch remind me of Cole, with the others is more their attention to fashion trends. Of course Beckham is the most successful of them, and for me it's easy to imagine Cantwell trying to mould his image in that direction, with a Norfolk twist, obviously 😁

Fair point. Like wearing a sarong but with wellies and a flat cap? 😉

I do agree that Todd seemingly  aspires to generate a brand (yuk) but I would genuinely love to see him show those kinds of flashes just that bit more. Cole at times produced finesse that just made you laugh at the audacity and cheek but even when he didn’t he contributed. He was a bit of a luxury player imo, but in this division Cantwell needs to either be a scrapper or be so good that oppo players are unable to prevent him creating. 

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16 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

Like wearing a sarong but with wellies and a flat cap

Now you've done it! NURSE!

 

🤣🤣😭😭

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Todd telling McCallum to engage and pull him out of position.

This is Cantwell's responsibility to close the man down, and not pull McCallum away from his decent defensive position. He didn't, and it led to a goal scoring opportunity. 

This happens a lot. 

 

TC.PNG

Edited by Creedence Clearwater Couto
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17 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Todd telling McCallum to engage and pull him out of position.

This is Cantwell's responsibility to close the man down, and not pull McCallum away from his decent defensive position. He didn't, and it led to a goal scoring opportunity. 

This happens a lot. 

 

TC.PNG

I'm not sure this is strictly true and considering the cross went through McCallum's legs I don't think he did too great here.

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29 minutes ago, repman said:

I'm not sure this is strictly true and considering the cross went through McCallum's legs I don't think he did too great here.

McCallum shouldn’t be dragged out to the byline leaving a big gap to Gibson. Cantwell should close down, and makes a very half arsed attempt too. Perhaps his defensive side is why Smith doesn’t rate him as much as some. As I said, I’ve noticed this sort of situation a few times when Cantwell plays. Turns his back a lot on crosses, too. 
 

Forward play has been better in the last couple of games, but easy for that to hide his inadequacies. Unless playing number 10, he has to support in defensive positions too.

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13 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

McCallum shouldn’t be dragged out to the byline leaving a big gap to Gibson. Cantwell should close down, and makes a very half arsed attempt too. Perhaps his defensive side is why Smith doesn’t rate him as much as some. As I said, I’ve noticed this sort of situation a few times when Cantwell plays. Turns his back a lot on crosses, too. 
 

Forward play has been better in the last couple of games, but easy for that to hide his inadequacies. Unless playing number 10, he has to support in defensive positions too.

I think that situation is pretty much 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. The ball goes to the outside and past Todd but the QPR player practically stops which means he probably could've gone out to him. However the moment the ball is played you do want McCallum coming out to stop as he'd be the only man goalside who can defend. The space that he would leave in behind is irrelevant unless someone makes a run, if it's a run from midfield either Hayden or Gibbs would track, if a player tries overlapping it's on Cantwell.

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13 minutes ago, repman said:

I think that situation is pretty much 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. The ball goes to the outside and past Todd but the QPR player practically stops which means he probably could've gone out to him. However the moment the ball is played you do want McCallum coming out to stop as he'd be the only man goalside who can defend. The space that he would leave in behind is irrelevant unless someone makes a run, if it's a run from midfield either Hayden or Gibbs would track, if a player tries overlapping it's on Cantwell.

Fair opinion. But disagree. That’s too far out of position for McCallum to engage. The easiest thing is for Cantwell to shut down. McCallum is clearly holding shape… Cantwell makes a poor attempt to do anything. 

Edited by Creedence Clearwater Couto

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5 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Fair opinion. But disagree. That’s too far out of position for McCallum to engage. The easiest thing is for Cantwell to shut down. McCallum is clearly holding shape… Cantwell makes a poor attempt to do anything. 

Cantwell covered and saved McCallum on multiple occasions last night.

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1 hour ago, repman said:

I'm not sure this is strictly true and considering the cross went through McCallum's legs I don't think he did too great here.

I actually see this differently.

Ramsay causes the problem by not moving closer to Andre Dozzell to allow Cantwell to commit to closing down the that player in possession.

Dozzell was Cantwell's man.

If Cantwell committed to closing down that player immediately then Dozzell bursts forward gets played the ball in acres of space with no marker. 

Capture.thumb.PNG.704305865d062b436b0eae40c5a85b48.PNG

 

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7 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I actually see this differently.

Ramsay causes the problem by not moving closer to Andre Dozzell to allow Cantwell to commit to closing down the that player in possession.

Dozzell was Cantwell's man.

If Cantwell committed to closing down that player immediately then Dozzell bursts forward gets played the ball in acres of space with no marker. 

Capture.thumb.PNG.704305865d062b436b0eae40c5a85b48.PNG

 

If McCallum engages, a ball is played straight behind him for the attacker to run onto, and he’s out the game - and Gibsons got a problem in the penalty area. 

I get what you say RE Ramsey, but at this point Cantwell has to close down and forget Dozzell. Dozzell may burst forward, but city are in shape defensively with two banks of 4 in front of him. 

Edited by Creedence Clearwater Couto

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3 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I actually see this differently.

Ramsay causes the problem by not moving closer to Andre Dozzell to allow Cantwell to commit to closing down the that player in possession.

Dozzell was Cantwell's man.

If Cantwell committed to closing down that player immediately then Dozzell bursts forward gets played the ball in acres of space with no marker. 

Capture.thumb.PNG.704305865d062b436b0eae40c5a85b48.PNG

 

Is Dozzell the guy bottom left?

I think in the ideal situation Todd might go flying out to him as soon as he receives the ball, but if he does do that he needs McCallum to be a lot closer than he was. Todd charging the guy from that angle gives the guy 2 ways to go, either forwards or backwards.  If McCallum was pushed further up nearer Todd then that eliminates the forward option, meaning that he can only go back and start again. McCallum is probably thinking that he's too far away anyway, and that it's better to be back than get stuck in no mans land. Todd is also thinking that if he goes without the support he gets beaten, and that it's better to just stay compact instead.

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