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KeiranShikari

Club's video on finances

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5 minutes ago, essex canary said:

If you have the highest admission prices in the league to fund amongst other things the doubtless highest senior management bill in the league

You think Kompany and Bellamy are on less ? How much do Watford spend on hiring and firing their management teams ?

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2 minutes ago, Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB said:

Do you think a lack of atmosphere is because there is a disconnect between the fans and the club or just down to the home fans not being very good supporters?...........

I think it's because the fans aren't making any noise. Are fans responsible for making noise? No. Would we get better results with more noise, possibly. Would the morale of the squad, their enthusiasm and the quaity go up? Possibly. The players tried to do their bit for starters by getting good results, which wasn't good enough. It's notable that accusations that they're not trying are starting to creep up, which possibly is a reflection that the apathy of the crowd is affecting them. 

But fans in the ground are paying punters so they're entitled to get their entertainment how they please; there's no fault in them choosing not to support the team vocally. 

 

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15 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

The point is irrefutable in isolation. It doesn't reflect the bigger picture though.

The last year and a half has been miserable around Norwich CIty. Our 2 previous seasons in the stadium have been miserable relegations. Norwich fans have never been the most vociferous but will get behind a team when there's actually something there to support, not what we've been served up thus far.

It's the club pointing fingers. No disconnect though because we're there to be pointed at though I suppose.

I think they phrased it well. They're not pointing fingers. As consumers, the crowd isn't responsible for creating an atmosphere in an environment where they are paying for entertainment  if they don't want to, but not creating an atmosphere will ultimately hurt the players. 

There was something to support. There was a nine-game unbeaten run that was form to get us back to the Premier League. People weren't bothered because it was all crap, turgid dross, whatever that means. 

At the end of the day, how is the recent history of the club over many seasons the fault of the collection of players on the pitch on any given day trying to win a game of football for the fans' entertainment? You really can't ask more of them than to win the game in front of them, and if that's not enough, then what can they do? 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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Fair play to Anthony, some good answers to some pointed questions - even ones which were a little unfair to lump him with (i.e. non-finance ones). Thought he communicated well, no bulls*** and jargon free. 

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11 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

There was something to support. There was a nine-game unbeaten run that was form to get us back to the Premier League. People weren't bothered because it was all crap, turgid dross, whatever that means. 

 

I think that run was tinged with anxiety because it was clear there was no substance and we were getting lucky/winning because we have significantly more talented players as opposed to because of a system.  That train of thought is currently looking pretty much spot on. Hopefully it flips again and you and the other other 3 members of the Deano Defence Force will be right.

In general I am a fan of Webber and the board but my word they're shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly these days.

Edited by KeiranShikari

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8 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

I think that run was tinged with anxiety because it was clear there was no substance and we were getting lucky/winning because we have significantly more talented players as opposed to because of a system.  That train of thought is currently looking pretty much spot on. Hopefully it flips again and you and the other other 3 members of the Deano Defence Force will be right.

In general I am a fan of Webber and the board but my word they're shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly these days.

That was not backed up by anything of substance. The XG stats in that period were absolutely consistent with the results as they were. 

Interestingly, in this recent run the xG stats have actually dropped; I was wryly amused on the xG thread that people are much more ready to believe in xG now it's saying it's bad when we're getting bad results than when it was good and we were getting good results. 

Basic point of football is to get more goals in the back of the net than the opposition. This season we seem to be contending with a new feature where the fans are giving their own personal marks for style to determine whether they choose to actually support the team or not. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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27 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I think it's because the fans aren't making any noise. Are fans responsible for making noise? No. Would we get better results with more noise, possibly. Would the morale of the squad, their enthusiasm and the quaity go up? Possibly. The players tried to do their bit for starters by getting good results, which wasn't good enough. It's notable that accusations that they're not trying are starting to creep up, which possibly is a reflection that the apathy of the crowd is affecting them. 

But fans in the ground are paying punters so they're entitled to get their entertainment how they please; there's no fault in them choosing not to support the team vocally. 

 

Why wouldn't supporters get vocal? I find it strange that so many do sit on their hands. I'm afraid I get very excited and sing and shout when at matches. I want the whole nine yards when supporting City.

I can't analyse it, I'm not qualified but from a club that have the oldest football anthem, it is strange that the atmosphere isn't more lively.

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1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

@sheffcanary got his question answered.

So anyway, is this bloke for the bed sheet with Delia, Michael, Tom, Stuart, Zoe, Deano, Shakey, Kenny and Grant?

I asked three questions though and the one answered should have received a straight forward answer. My questions were gradually building up so the third one was on whether he felt corporate governance was appropriate for such a public facing organisation. Interestingly his answer to the question publicised implied no-one other than he and Stuart are involved in controlling the playing budget on a day to day basis as it goes from window to window, but the club has still ended up borrowing £66m so is everyone else in the club happy with that?  Given that £66m of loans means that any transfers for a fast disappearing promotion push in January would require player sakes first makes me think there will be no great desire for promotion after all.

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11 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That was not backed up by anything of substance. The XG stats in that period were absolutely consistent with the results as they should be. 

Interestingly, in this recent run the xG stats have actually dropped; I was wryly amused on the xG thread that people are much more ready to believe in xG now it's saying it's bad when we're getting bad results than when it was good and we were getting good results. 

Basic point of football is to get more goals in the back of the net than the opposition. This season we seem to be contending with a new feature where the fans are giving their own personal marks for style to determine whether they actually support the team or not. 

 

I'm no XG denier and am not going to talk about it much because it's been done to death. Like pretty much any stat It can be used by either side of the Smith argument. I feel like the more compelling side of the argument right now would be that we had lots of xg against the poorer sides and are now struggling against the more tactically drilled sides.

With 3 of our 4 games before the world cup at home things could of course feel very different before the break starts. Hopefully 'Deano' sorts it out.

 

 

Edited by KeiranShikari

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1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

An enjoyable watch, a set of sensible answers to the many varied questions.

Shows we are in good hands.

I hope they continue with these Insight pieces, it's a credit to the club that they are prepared to do them.

Shows where the power lies! But it does clarify the club's position on many fronts, which doesn't make me feel more comfortable.🤨

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37 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Looks to me like a sanitised version of what you would expect from a face to face Q&A at the AGM.

According to my agm pack, if Ive read it properly,  questions need to be pre submitted this time, think deadline is 4th Nov

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Just now, shefcanary said:

Shows where the power lies! But it does clarify the club's position on many fronts, which doesn't make me feel more comfortable.🤨

Certainly digging their heels in. More Moxey than what Webber had originally been trying to create.  

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1 minute ago, shefcanary said:

Shows where the power lies! But it does clarify the club's position on many fronts, which doesn't make me feel more comfortable.🤨

He does state that he's giving his opinion, he's allowed an opinion.

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3 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Shows where the power lies! But it does clarify the club's position on many fronts, which doesn't make me feel more comfortable.🤨

I noticed your question featured in the video. Kudos!

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4 minutes ago, Diane said:

According to my agm pack, if Ive read it properly,  questions need to be pre submitted this time, think deadline is 4th Nov

With this being published just a couple of weeks before the AGM i am beginning to think Webber and Smith will not be in attendance on the night.

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5 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

With this being published just a couple of weeks before the AGM i am beginning to think Webber and Smith will not be in attendance on the night.

I wonder whether Zoe will be?

I would like to ask her how she was able to sign off the Balance Sheet and conclude that the Club is in a 'strong financial position?

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Just now, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Will watch it now I sent in a question so will see if they answer it. Any highlights from your view? 

The highlight, more of a lowlight actually, was the club doubling down on Webber's attendance = no disconnect line from the summer. It just feels arrogant and willfully ignorant to me. Never feels good being lied to.

Other than that the finance stuff (that he really should only have been answering) was pretty much what I expected. Not the doom and gloom some have predicted. Of course it's obviously favourable that we do get promoted.

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22 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

 

 

I'm no XG denier and am not going to talk about it much because it's been done to death. Like pretty much any stat It can be used by either side of the Smith argument. I feel like the more compelling side of the argument right now would be that we had lots of xg against the poorer sides and are now struggling against the more tactically drilled sides.

With 3 of our 4 games before the world cup at home things could of course feel very different before the break starts. Hopefully 'Deano' sorts it out.

 

 

xG is what it is and can only be used to say what it says, which is either 'you deserved to win' or 'you deserved to lose' in contrast to the result that says whether you actually won or loss. Apart from the first few games, xG has said very well we deserved to win when we were winning and that we've deserved to be losing on this last run. 

This losing run, we've also lost against sides we should have beat, and the xG said we deserved to lose against those sides we should have beat. That points to morale deteriorating, and if morale has deteriorated from a great run of results like that, then lack of enthusiasm from supporters has to be considered as a plausible reason for that drop in morale in the squad.

Again though, those in the ground are paying consumers so do not need to feel responsible if lack of atmosphere results in poorer performance. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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4 minutes ago, essex canary said:

I wonder whether Zoe will be?

I would like to ask her how she was able to sign off the Balance Sheet and conclude that the Club is in a 'strong financial position?

Do so then. 👍

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22 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

I asked three questions though and the one answered should have received a straight forward answer. My questions were gradually building up so the third one was on whether he felt corporate governance was appropriate for such a public facing organisation. Interestingly his answer to the question publicised implied no-one other than he and Stuart are involved in controlling the playing budget on a day to day basis as it goes from window to window, but the club has still ended up borrowing £66m so is everyone else in the club happy with that?  Given that £66m of loans means that any transfers for a fast disappearing promotion push in January would require player sakes first makes me think there will be no great desire for promotion after all.

Maybe you shouldn't have been so greedy and then they wouldn't have been able to choose the easy option.🙃

Be more straight to the point next week?

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10 minutes ago, essex canary said:

I wonder whether Zoe will be?

I would like to ask her how she was able to sign off the Balance Sheet and conclude that the Club is in a 'strong financial position?

She is up for re election so it would be bad form not to be in attendance so i am sure you will get your chance provided they take questions from the floor.

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Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

xG is what it is and can only be used to say what it says, which is either 'you deserved to win' or 'you deserved to lose'

You could have 10 potshots and end up with a higher xg than creating 1 good chance. It's obviously a useful analytic but it's like any other stat it needs context. I'm not a data analyst, I'm a football fan. There were wins In our run that which I felt we lucky to win and so did a lot of people. 

It was actually a loss to Stoke at home in the October of 2018 when the fans and Farke truly clicked. Maybe history will repeat itself for Smith.

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9 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

The highlight, more of a lowlight actually, was the club doubling down on Webber's attendance = no disconnect line from the summer. It just feels arrogant and willfully ignorant to me. Never feels good being lied to.

Other than that the finance stuff (that he really should only have been answering) was pretty much what I expected. Not the doom and gloom some have predicted. Of course it's obviously favourable that we do get promoted.

Yeah I couldn’t stop cringing at that part. They basically refuse to admit there is unrest among the fans because we keep showing up. They will find out the hard way I’m sure. Blamed the fans for not getting behind the team was probably the most disingenuous thing I’ve heard in a while. 
 

i find it hard to justify how they are charging the 13th most expensive season ticket in the Prem while not providing anything better than a last place finish in the last two attempts. 

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6 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

Other than that the finance stuff (that he really should only have been answering) was pretty much what I expected. Not the doom and gloom some have predicted. Of course it's obviously favourable that we do get promoted.

Not doom and gloom!? He's practically said the club is shìt or bust on the current squad winning promotion! There isn't a cat in heels chance of that (my opinion of course but ... !). So come January the games up? 

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9 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

You could have 10 potshots and end up with a higher xg than creating 1 good chance. It's obviously a useful analytic but it's like any other stat it needs context. I'm not a data analyst, I'm a football fan. There were wins In our run that which I felt we lucky to win and so did a lot of people. 

It was actually a loss to Stoke at home in the October of 2018 when the fans and Farke truly clicked. Maybe history will repeat itself for Smith.

You're trying to argue that your feelings are of more value than an objective attempt to take luck out of the equation in analysing performance via XG in terms of getting more goals in the back of the net than the opposition. 

You've also mentioned the last few seasons as being a reason not to be enthusiastic in that run. It's fine. You don't have to be enthusiastic if you don't want to, and you aren't responsible if your lack of enthusiasm negatively impacts performance. 

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1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I'm guessing this phrase wasn't used as you've couched it there. What did they actually say? 

I’d also like to see what was actually said as I’ve seen several tweets from Rob Butler and Darren Huckerby talking about this but no actual quotes 

 

Edited by Virtual reality

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4 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Not doom and gloom!? He's practically said the club is shìt or bust on the current squad winning promotion! There isn't a cat in heels chance of that (my opinion of course but ... !). So come January the games up? 

To my untrained eye it doesn't appear that the club are genuinely risking the future right now. We'll obviously be downsizing in the summer if things don't go to plan but I wouldn't be worried about that. We recruit better on a budget anyway.

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1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You're trying to argue that your feelings are of more value than an objective attempt to take luck out of the equation in analysing performance via XG in terms of getting more goals in the back of the net than the opposition. 

You've also mentioned the last few seasons as being a reason not to be enthusiastic in that run. It's fine. You don't have to be enthusiastic if you don't want to, and you aren't responsible if your lack of enthusiasm negatively impacts performance. 

I'm not really arguing anything.

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2 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

To my untrained eye it doesn't appear that the club are genuinely risking the future right now. We'll obviously be downsizing in the summer if things don't go to plan but I wouldn't be worried about that. We recruit better on a budget anyway.

I think @shefcanary is being a little bit uncharitable. Anthony said they run forecasting scenarios where the club does not get promoted. He said in such a scenario the club would rely on player trading. That said, one wonders how much we'd get for players who have been unable to achieve promotion for two years. That is perhaps a small concern.

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