First Sutton, now Dublin

[littleyellowbirdie 2,536]

42 minutes ago, Canary Jedi said:

Blimey. Why on earth do you come to this forum then?

I’ll tell you why I come here. I like reading other opinions and perspectives because just occasionally people make a good point that I didn’t consider. Even from people who might never have kicked a football!

Equally, people who have played the game are known to make incredibly shortsighted and I researched comments.

When it comes to opinions about Norwich, Norwich fans are probably better placed than some disgruntled ex-pro that doesn’t know the club.

Oh come on. Most opinions on here are usually couched in very conclusive and authoritative terms, "they're crap" being a common one. 

What's this thread about at the end of the day? Some who want Smith gone are so pathologically convinced that they're correct that they're threatened by anything contrary and will create a whole thread trying to discredit two Norwich hall of famers in their determination to drown out anything that might offer another narrative. 

Sutton's a regular contributor to the Pink Un, so it's literally his job to pay proper attention to Norwich, and he knows the club and the football industry. 

 

[The Raptor 1,205]

4 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Seems like a pr campaign from the club to buy him more time. 

Mark rivers obviously didn't get the memo. He's been quite critical on his radio Norfolk commentaries. As critical as he dares to be if he wants to be invited back anyway!

[littleyellowbirdie 2,536]

3 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Take Nutty's point about Sutton's free-thinking, but in general I think @king canary is right - ex-players don't often call for coaches to lose their jobs, and probably for the reason you suggest. 

I remember being very struck by Lineker attacking the sacking of Hughton as being premature when any reasonable interpretation of the situation was that it was left too late. They were team-mates at Spurs and so it's only natural for Lineker to support his mate, not least because everyone thinks Hughton is a lovely bloke, but basically I think you can take these pundits' opinions with a pinch of salt.

I always thought there was something a bit iffy about the pathological hatred of Hughton among some. Sure it wasn't super pretty, but we had some belting games in the Premier League under him. Even after finishing 11th that first season, there were plenty hell-bent on getting rid of him over the summer. I found it impossible to ignore the possibility that those who just wouldn't stop weren't maybe a teensy bit racist. 

His whole tenure seemed characterised by toxicity, whether the results were good or not. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,289]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

 the possibility that those who just wouldn't stop weren't maybe a teensy bit racist. 

Wow. 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

30 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I always thought there was something a bit iffy about the pathological hatred of Hughton among some. Sure it wasn't super pretty, but we had some belting games in the Premier League under him. Even after finishing 11th that first season, there were plenty hell-bent on getting rid of him over the summer. I found it impossible to ignore the possibility that those who just wouldn't stop weren't maybe a teensy bit racist. 

His whole tenure seemed characterised by toxicity, whether the results were good or not. 

I mean……. Some maybe. But I reckon the majority (probably around 99%) just hated the horribly dull football where we would go 1 nil down and take off attackers to protect the deficit for some reason. Time and time and time again. 

If you liked Hughton’s football then it does explain why you’re more tolerant of Smith than most of the fan base 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,536]

3 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

I mean……. Some maybe. But I reckon the majority (probably around 99%) just hated the horribly dull football where we would go 1 nil down and take off attackers to protect the deficit for some reason. Time and time and time again. 

If you liked Hughton’s football then it does explain why you’re more tolerant of Smith than most of the fan base 

I wouldn't say I liked it, but people using works like 'crap', 'torrid' and other subjective terms like it should have some authoritative weight because they personally see it like that, let alone making up stats on the spot about how many people think the same, and then don't  offer much of substance in their view doesn't really sway me very much. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

I wouldn't say I liked it, but people using works like 'crap', 'torrid' and other subjective terms like it should have some authoritative weight because they personally see it like that, and they aren't actually offering much of substance in their view doesn't really sway me very much. 

Swaying your view is not part of their intent for giving their own most of the time. Hughton’s football was crap. Smiths football is crap. We could take tiny spells of each and say that it wasn’t 100% crap, but much like if the carrots on a roast are cooked to perfection but the rest is a bag of rubbish you say the meal was crap. 

I don’t mind that it doesn’t sway you. I don’t mind that I’m not supporting my view with mounds of empirical evidence. Smith has brought crap football to Norwich and now his crap football is running low on results to justify its existence. My view. Shared by others, not by some, don’t care. 

Smith out

[OnDaBall 137]

I wouldn't be presumptuous enough to state what percentage of fans thought one way or another, all I remember about the Hughton era was that I dreaded going to carrow road to watch it and most of my mates felt the same.

[tricky974 61]

If either Sutton or Dublin had been a player is under his management then that would give an insight into him as a manager, but they haven't and they don't watch what's happening on the pitch week in week out. So, I take there opinion and listen to what they have to say and then discard.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

6 hours ago, king canary said:

I doubt it is a coordinated campaign from the club- much more likely that ex players will generally defend their own in these circumstances. Much more unusual to see an ex player openly say a manager should be fired, especially a British manager who they may have some pre-existing personal relationship with.

Did you listen to Mark Rivers on canary call after the Burnley game? He was rather scathing of Smith on there he’s very refreshing the anti lappin if you will who always seems to tow the club line when on 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

19 minutes ago, OnDaBall said:

I wouldn't be presumptuous enough to state what percentage of fans thought one way or another, all I remember about the Hughton era was that I dreaded going to carrow road to watch it and most of my mates felt the same.

So just like now really 

[Channon’s Windmill 326]

Love Dion, he stood out as a player at time when his compatriots were pretty dire, however he is talking drivel, Smith needs to go, a bad apple in the fruit bowl and all that.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

1 hour ago, The Raptor said:

Mark rivers obviously didn't get the memo. He's been quite critical on his radio Norfolk commentaries. As critical as he dares to be if he wants to be invited back anyway!

Yeah I just posted a reply to another post to this effect 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

Just now, Channon’s Windmill said:

Love Dion, he stood out as a player at time when his compatriots were pretty dire, however he is talking drivel, Smith needs to go, a bad apple in the fruit bowl and all that.

Should stick to his stairs to the bedroom catchphrase 

[Big Vince 318]

6 hours ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Seems like a pr campaign from the club to buy him more time. 

Never underestimate the power of the Socialists to use media to malign purposes.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

11 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Never underestimate the power of the Socialists to use media to malign purposes.

I don’t think you understand socialism Vince. if you think Delia and Michael are true socialists I’ve not seen a penny of it myself or had any say at all on how the club is run which would be the actions of true socialists. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

To be honest, it is the stock answer. If only they were given more time. None of our coaches or managers need too much sympathy. They have all jumped into a sacked person's shoes at the first opportunity, got rid of the coaching staff and changed everything around. As if to say, that what happened previous was no good.

All that matters is the support. Sutton and Dublin should know that.

Edited October 27, 2022 by keelansgrandad

[Nuff Said 5,113]

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

All that matters is the support. Sutton and Dublin should know that.

I was going to say all that matters is the results, but then Hughton has come up earlier in this thread and as LYB has said, finishing 11th wasn’t good enough to keep some people happy.

 

Personally, and this is just my opinion, I think there’s some revisionism around Hughton’s time here. Without doubt things got worse the more we struggled, but it wasn’t that bad to start with. But in a reverse of the way Farke’s history is now of a swashbuckling team with a style that Brazil were jealous of (with no endless passing backwards and forwards between defenders and the keeper, lack of subs or possession for possession’s sake without end product) there is a blanket Hughton=bad view. The Roeder, Grant and Gunn eras were in a different class.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,536]

4 hours ago, SwearyCanary said:

Swaying your view is not part of their intent for giving their own most of the time. Hughton’s football was crap. Smiths football is crap. We could take tiny spells of each and say that it wasn’t 100% crap, but much like if the carrots on a roast are cooked to perfection but the rest is a bag of rubbish you say the meal was crap. 

I don’t mind that it doesn’t sway you. I don’t mind that I’m not supporting my view with mounds of empirical evidence. Smith has brought crap football to Norwich and now his crap football is running low on results to justify its existence. My view. Shared by others, not by some, don’t care. 

Smith out

But at the same time, your attitude fully explains why the club can't be bothered engaging with you, and people who share your attitude, any more. You're unreasonable, you effectively say as much and you believe you have a right to be, regardless what effect it has on the club.

Edited October 27, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

8 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

But at the same time, your attitude fully explains why the club can't be bothered engaging with you, and people who share your attitude, any more. You're unreasonable, you effectively say as much and you believe you have a right to be, regardless what effect it has on the club.

Club can’t be bothered engaging with me? Because I’m critical? What are you on about? I bet you get loads of ‘engagement’ from the club then? Thought not, because why would the club need to try and engage with someone who happily turns up and takes whatever tripe they’re given week in and out? 

Honestly, you’re bad for the club and it’s future, you offer nothing, so when Smith heads out of the door I hope you toddle off with him. 

I’m not unreasonable, I have my reasons, just like you. And equally, just like you, YOUR inability to provide convincing reasons for your pov is a factor in why I’ve not been swayed to give Smith more time. You might think your reasoning is sound, but how many others on here as an acid test have replied to you with ‘yeah, that’s a good point actually.’? Do feel free to petition people outside the ground though if you want a larger sample, I’ll come and check on your tally of Smith in v Smith out 😂. 

Cue pompous and snippy response - I imagine you’ll call me a cancer or something, because you’re a really calm and reasonable kind of guy 😂. Or better yet come up with a good argument, you’ve not made one yet - just make sure it’s not a good argument according to you only. 

[BigFish 1,986]

15 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Everyone opinion is “valid” but obviously some are better informed than others. Some may give the likes of Sutton or Dion extra weight because they’ve played the game, others would give more weight to the opinions of those who have watched us week in week out over the last 50 games.

Personally I’d go with the latter. I’ve never agreed with the view that ex players opinions on matters are automatically more valid than fans. Maybe on some technical elements of the game yes but many fans are significantly more intelligent than most ex players and have watched or played the game enough to know what they are talking about. 

 

Everyone has the right to an opinion, but that doesn't make everyones opinion right. Most fans actually know very little about football, even though those that are very intelligent, are skilled in other areas and have been watching games every week for decades. Those within the game, or who have experienced the game from the inside, have very different perspectives and much greater knowledge. But of course that doesn't necessarily mean they are right either.😉

[ged in the onion bag 855]

Dion Dublin, the man who said in commentary, ‘he’s been touched there, he’s got a right to go down’….. actually advocating cheating!   What on earth does he know?   

[ged in the onion bag 855]

3 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Everyone has the right to an opinion, but that doesn't make everyones opinion right. Most fans actually know very little about football, even though those that are very intelligent, are skilled in other areas and have been watching games every week for decades. Those within the game, or who have experienced the game from the inside, have very different perspectives and much greater knowledge. But of course that doesn't necessarily mean they are right either.😉

No, certainly not, the powers that be had 11 yr olds playing in full sized goals for well over 100 yrs before they were shown how wrong it was!    
 

It’s only since Guardiola changed football in 2008 that people in the game started properly thinking about it and most still haven’t got the wherewithal to do that!    There’s certainly an arrogance that they think they know best!