FFP? how long can it survive.

[mastoola 183]

With Barca being knocked out of the Champions league tonight and a Billion in debt do you think the rules will be adjusted to keep them afloat? They seem to be the benchmark by what other clubs can overspend without a penalty.  

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

28 minutes ago, mastoola said:

With Barca being knocked out of the Champions league tonight and a Billion in debt do you think the rules will be adjusted to keep them afloat? They seem to be the benchmark by what other clubs can overspend without a penalty.  

It’s interesting as clubs like Barcelona just can’t fail. I imagine a consortium takeover much like Chelsea is still very possible but with Saudi backing and unlimited pockets to draw from. They’re still a world renowned club and fans faced with liquidation will choose survival by any means. This team would be a sportswashers dream acquisition 

[chicken 2,624]

I believe FIFA have been looking at FFP and changing it for some time now.

I have sympathy for fans of any club that have shocking ownership that fund them through debt. In many ways I have no sympathy for Barcelona or Madrid in many ways.

It's their ownership model that's part of the problem I believe. This article sort of covers it:
https://sports.ladbrokes.com/news/football/la-liga/what-has-gone-wrong-at-barcelona/

New rules:
https://www.nationalworld.com/sport/football/what-are-uefas-proposed-financial-fair-play-changes-how-new-rules-will-work-3623936

Edited October 26, 2022 by chicken
New rules.

[AJ 1,218]

9 hours ago, mastoola said:

With Barca being knocked out of the Champions league tonight and a Billion in debt do you think the rules will be adjusted to keep them afloat? They seem to be the benchmark by what other clubs can overspend without a penalty.  

Might not be to the same astronomical levels, but there’s a few clubs closer to home with substantial debt. Manchester United are almost half a billion in debt but nobody is pointing any fingers, as are Arsenal. Tottenham reportedly edging closer towards a billion, namely due to the cost of their new stadium I imagine. It’s not sustainable or fair for these clubs to continue as they are without punishment. As a business they get away with it because assumably their assets outweigh their debts

[Scot-e-dog 34]

Funnily enough my lad and I were having exactly this conversation the other day.

 

FIFA/UEFA cannot afford for Barca to go belly up and thus, just how much are they willing to fiddle the system to allow that to happen.

 

This had the potential to create a beast though.  Fiddling the system won't remove Barca's debt, but will will allow the likes of Man City and PSG to abuse the system even further.

 

Furthermore, the ripple down effect will (in my opinion) be catastrophic to lower leagues as part of the likely solution is things like European supers leagues, etc, etc with no relegation.

 

As painful as it may well be, the best long term solution for world football will be to let Barca go to the wall and fight their way back, like Rangers did.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

I seriously find it hard to think about all this now. The world is in a bad place where people have been encouraged to live beyond their means by getting into debt. Anyone can see this won't end well.

This concerns me a lot more than football clubs debts and I hope the clubs don't get away with something ordinary folk don't get away with.

 

[chicken 2,624]

2 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I seriously find it hard to think about all this now. The world is in a bad place where people have been encouraged to live beyond their means by getting into debt. Anyone can see this won't end well.

This concerns me a lot more than football clubs debts and I hope the clubs don't get away with something ordinary folk don't get away with.

Spot on. My folks always taught me to not buy something you can't afford. It is seriously scary how people are encouraged to get into debt and end up paying a lot more for things as a result.

In footy it's even worse IMHO. It tends to be owners borrowing money against the clubs. It happens in business too - people buy a company and then instantly take out a loan against said company for the value of their investment. So they essentially spend nothing and gain a business that has to service a debt. But that's ok, because if they business goes belly up the owners walk away...

 

6 hours ago, AJ said:

Might not be to the same astronomical levels, but there’s a few clubs closer to home with substantial debt. Manchester United are almost half a billion in debt but nobody is pointing any fingers, as are Arsenal. Tottenham reportedly edging closer towards a billion, namely due to the cost of their new stadium I imagine. It’s not sustainable or fair for these clubs to continue as they are without punishment. As a business they get away with it because assumably their assets outweigh their debts

Arsenal are more like £230m I believe. Chelsea were the top club in terms of debt owed with over a billion, something like £1.3b but not sure how that's adjusted now with the sale as I think a fair amount was owed to Abramovic. Spurs are close to £1billion... I think Everton were close to £500m.

[mastoola 183]

20 hours ago, SwearyCanary said:

It’s interesting as clubs like Barcelona just can’t fail. I imagine a consortium takeover much like Chelsea is still very possible but with Saudi backing and unlimited pockets to draw from. They’re still a world renowned club and fans faced with liquidation will choose survival by any means. This team would be a sportswashers dream acquisition 

I think you will find maybe that Barca is almost a Municiple club so can't be bought by a rich owner

[mastoola 183]

12 hours ago, AJ said:

Might not be to the same astronomical levels, but there’s a few clubs closer to home with substantial debt. Manchester United are almost half a billion in debt but nobody is pointing any fingers, as are Arsenal. Tottenham reportedly edging closer towards a billion, namely due to the cost of their new stadium I imagine. It’s not sustainable or fair for these clubs to continue as they are without punishment. As a business they get away with it because assumably their assets outweigh their debts

Maybe the cost of infrastructure like a new stadium isn't considered under ffp as it will be offset over a number of years as a business loan

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

2 hours ago, mastoola said:

I think you will find maybe that Barca is almost a Municiple club so can't be bought by a rich owner

You’re right. My bad. 

Maybe then as others have said, if the big clubs fail the FFP so regularly they’ll just move the goalposts to make it so they don’t 

[mastoola 183]

8 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

You’re right. My bad. 

Maybe then as others have said, if the big clubs fail the FFP so regularly they’ll just move the goalposts to make it so they don’t 

Historically the chairman seems to get voted in on how much money they can spend in their tenure. Spanish football is so so corrupt.  the four biggest teams have a tv deal that the rest of the Legue is not party too

Edited October 27, 2022 by mastoola

[hertfordyellow 460]

Didn’t they operate two of their ‘levers’ with the Spanish governing body to keep their spending within the rules? It means they have sold off future tv revenue to 3rd parties. This means their wages to turnover ratio meets the requirements ( for now ). Reckless but within the rules no?