Gibbs and Cantwell

[Richard Richard 186]

Having calmed somewhat since last night's performance I thought this pair deserved a separate mention.

Cantwell - probably out best player last night. Put himself about, gave 100% and looked like the only player comfortable putting his foot on the ball and looking to pass forwards. Frustrating as hell when he had his sulk last year but seems to have turned it round now. HAS to start, one of our few players with a bit of genuine flair/creativity.

Gibbs - looked more assured at right back for his brief appearance last night than poor old Aarons who had a torid game against their winger. Calm on the ball, not panicked into rash passes, instills a bit of confidence that, when he passes, it'll actually find its way to a Norwich player. HAS to start (clearly not at right back - in place of Nunez who was completely anonymous again last night).

Agree/disagree?

[Newtopia 517]

Gibbs was not as good as Aarons, in the second half Aarons put the left winger in his pocket, which was no small feat considering he was on a booking.  Equally Gibbs does look capable of playing at this level..

Cantwell, it will be interesting to see where he goes when he leaves us.  I am conflicted about what standard I think he will go to.  Currently if he was not from our academy would we be offering him a better contract than we offered Rupp?

[Tony DaWonderful 35]

Totally agree regarding Cantwell. Would of taken Sara off and popped Todd in the centre. He was industrious and looked up for it.

Gibbs gets better and better and should always start in my opinion. He looked proper assured at right back.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Considering the way the shoe ins made mistakes, then Todd and Gibbs were much better.

[chicken 2,604]

20 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

Gibbs was not as good as Aarons, in the second half Aarons put the left winger in his pocket, which was no small feat considering he was on a booking.  Equally Gibbs does look capable of playing at this level..

Cantwell, it will be interesting to see where he goes when he leaves us.  I am conflicted about what standard I think he will go to.  Currently if he was not from our academy would we be offering him a better contract than we offered Rupp?

Rupp was 30+ and we seemingly, like some other clubs, are reluctant to hand out long contracts to players post 30. Cantwell is 24, would be silly to hand him a single year, also somewhat doubtful any player at 24/25 would sign a single year contract.

On a free, I suspect there will be some interesting in him from our level, possibly higher. Less of a risk when it's just on wages as there is little outlay for a player that at the very least, could demand £6-7m if purchasing. Wouldn't be surprised to see interest from Europe either, as he has played there before.

Nothing to do with being "from our academy" just like some teams doubled up on him pretty quickly in our last promotion season. 

[Petriix 2,834]

Cantwell will be a Premier League player next season - that's my guess.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

2 hours ago, Petriix said:

Cantwell will be a Premier League player next season - that's my guess.

Absolutely no chance, is my guess.

Cantwell flatters to deceive.

Looked good the other night? Well, he appeared to put effort in and ran around a lot. Once again though, when Norwich need a player to effect a game, he’s found wanting. That was a good Cantwell performance apparently, but it had zero impact on our creativity, attacking threat or ultimately, result. 

That’s my issue with Cantwell, or rather, the importance or rating some fans give him. He’s a tidy player, but never a game changer and too often carried - even when it appears he’s playing well. And he only needs to put in a 7/10 performance, for some fans to rave about him!

Another mistake from Webber, IMO, was not recognising the above and selling him whilst his value was massively inflated! Cantwell could easily have been replaced with a player for a 1/4 of the fee we could’ve got for him at one point. 

 

[TheGunnShow 5,905]

Gibbs, in terms of coming up, has been the rising star of the season up to now. As said, he's got an assurance in possession that sets him apart and looks pretty good in the intangibles - good workrate, healthy turn of pace (but not a speedster), an eye for a pass looks like he's got a decent mentality about him, but that will be tested more when his form struggles as it inevitably will with younger players.

[Number9 272]

58 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Absolutely no chance, is my guess.

Cantwell flatters to deceive.

Looked good the other night? Well, he appeared to put effort in and ran around a lot. Once again though, when Norwich need a player to effect a game, he’s found wanting. That was a good Cantwell performance apparently, but it had zero impact on our creativity, attacking threat or ultimately, result. 

That’s my issue with Cantwell, or rather, the importance or rating some fans give him. He’s a tidy player, but never a game changer and too often carried - even when it appears he’s playing well. And he only needs to put in a 7/10 performance, for some fans to rave about him!

Another mistake from Webber, IMO, was not recognising the above and selling him whilst his value was massively inflated! Cantwell could easily have been replaced with a player for a 1/4 of the fee we could’ve got for him at one point. 

 

Just prior to his being subbed off, Todd was the second best out of the 22 on the pitch at making tackles.

The first on the list was a Burnley player, Todd was by some distance the best City player on the list.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

4 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Just prior to his being subbed off, Todd was the second best out of the 22 on the pitch at making tackles.

The first on the list was a Burnley player, Todd was by some distance the best City player on the list.

Great, our creative outlet is busy making tackles..

 

[Ulfotto 618]

I thought Todd looked good as well maybe the substitution was because of the injury he has had.

I also think Aarons deserves credit yes the guy was roasted in the first twenty minutes but after that and particularly after half time he turned it round and there left winger was much less effective.

Plus it was probably my favourite moment of the match when was it Tella tried to shoulder charge Hanley after a bit of pushing and shoving and just bounced off him and fell to the ground which resulted in Hanley getting for doing absolutely nothing.

[Richard Richard 186]

1 hour ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Absolutely no chance, is my guess.

Cantwell flatters to deceive.

Looked good the other night? Well, he appeared to put effort in and ran around a lot. Once again though, when Norwich need a player to effect a game, he’s found wanting. That was a good Cantwell performance apparently, but it had zero impact on our creativity, attacking threat or ultimately, result. 

That’s my issue with Cantwell, or rather, the importance or rating some fans give him. He’s a tidy player, but never a game changer and too often carried - even when it appears he’s playing well. And he only needs to put in a 7/10 performance, for some fans to rave about him!

Another mistake from Webber, IMO, was not recognising the above and selling him whilst his value was massively inflated! Cantwell could easily have been replaced with a player for a 1/4 of the fee we could’ve got for him at one point. 

 

Don't get me wrong - I don't think Cantwell is a world-beater. However, the fact that he can perform at 7/10 and look our best player says a lot about the quality/performance of the rest of the team at the moment....

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

Cantwell has not scored or assisted in two seasons. That’s including us and Bournemouth last year who were relatively dominant against most teams they played. He has played in over 30 games in that time. He is not going to be on the radar of any club higher than championship level because they’d be crazy to consider him an asset. Not even as a sub because he clearly hadn’t made an impact when he has gone on for us because as a creative midfielder he creates nothing. Literally nothing. His performance v Burnley may have shown a good willingness to break up play against a team who still retained and dominated possession, he may have played much better than normal or than the rest of the side, but did Burnley care when the ball was at his feet what he might do? Like any other team we have faced this season, no they don’t. 

Cantwell leaving on a free at the end of the season is what he needs and what we need is to replace him with an actually creative midfielder. 

Edited October 27, 2022 by SwearyCanary

[Capt. Pants 4,194]

Smith went for a straight one for one substitution bringing on Hernandez and chose to bin Cantwell thus removing any ounce of creativity and attacking desire. Sargent was completely useless on the right wing, I'd have taken him off.

Gibbs has been the pick of our midfielders this season; frankly I'm underwhelmed with Sara and Nunez. Yes they need time but we can't have two like that on the pitch at the same time. Even worse really as Hayden looks well off the pace too.

[jaberry2 549]

The problem is at the moment we cant find the right mix in Midfield. You can understand why with Nunez looking pretty poor recently, Sara only offering glimpses of what he can do, Cantwell running about and trying to impact the game but having little affect. That leaves you with Sargeant who is relatively ineffective on the right wing, mainly due to his lack of tracking back and positional sense. Then the only real operators that leaves you with are Gibbs / Hayden / Kenny, with the latter not being favoured by many and the previous two being a little two defensive to play with one another.

[hogesar 9,608]

2 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Great, our creative outlet is busy making tackles..

 

That's not really Todd's fault - he shouldn't have to be doing that work but he did have to because the team couldn't keep possession of the ball.

Todd put in a good performance despite us not having much of the ball which is when creative flair players tend to perform.

[Richard Richard 186]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

That's not really Todd's fault - he shouldn't have to be doing that work but he did have to because the team couldn't keep possession of the ball.

Todd put in a good performance despite us not having much of the ball which is when creative flair players tend to perform.

100% this.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

That's not really Todd's fault - he shouldn't have to be doing that work but he did have to because the team couldn't keep possession of the ball.

Todd put in a good performance despite us not having much of the ball which is when creative flair players tend to perform.

I was being a tad sarcastic. 

My point remains however, he is a creative midfielder who rarely creates anything of note or impacts the team in a positive way, especially  when we need a player to stand up and drag us through. He hasn’t got that ability.

Players such as Buendia, Leitner, Vrancic, Steiperman, Trybull… carried Cantwell. 

[Richard Richard 186]

2 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

I was being a tad sarcastic. 

My point remains however, he is a creative midfielder who rarely creates anything of note or impacts the team in a positive way, especially  when we need a player to stand up and drag us through. He hasn’t got that ability.

Players such as Buendia, Leitner, Vrancic, Steiperman, Trybull… carried Cantwell. 

It's an interesting point. I remain an admirer of Cantwell when he's not in a strop but was he made to look better than he is when Buendia and co were in the side.....?

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

3 hours ago, SwearyCanary said:

Cantwell has not scored or assisted in two seasons. That’s including us and Bournemouth last year who were relatively dominant against most teams they played. He has played in over 30 games in that time. He is not going to be on the radar of any club higher than championship level because they’d be crazy to consider him an asset. Not even as a sub because he clearly hadn’t made an impact when he has gone on for us because as a creative midfielder he creates nothing. Literally nothing. His performance v Burnley may have shown a good willingness to break up play against a team who still retained and dominated possession, he may have played much better than normal or than the rest of the side, but did Burnley care when the ball was at his feet what he might do? Like any other team we have faced this season, no they don’t. 

Cantwell leaving on a free at the end of the season is what he needs and what we need is to replace him with an actually creative midfielder. 

Bang on. 

Even in the good times, his EPL goals, you could see how limited he was if you looked.

In 18/19 when he came in for a suspended Buendia, our performances instantly dropped. Now that’s more of an indication to how good Buendia was, granted. But I’ll never change my opinion as to how massively overrated Cantwell is.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

5 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Absolutely no chance, is my guess.

Cantwell flatters to deceive.

Looked good the other night? Well, he appeared to put effort in and ran around a lot. Once again though, when Norwich need a player to effect a game, he’s found wanting. That was a good Cantwell performance apparently, but it had zero impact on our creativity, attacking threat or ultimately, result. 

That’s my issue with Cantwell, or rather, the importance or rating some fans give him. He’s a tidy player, but never a game changer and too often carried - even when it appears he’s playing well. And he only needs to put in a 7/10 performance, for some fans to rave about him!

Another mistake from Webber, IMO, was not recognising the above and selling him whilst his value was massively inflated! Cantwell could easily have been replaced with a player for a 1/4 of the fee we could’ve got for him at one point. 

Was incredibly unlucky not to score, and that delightful little chip over the defence to Pukki was unlucky also.

He has always been over rated, but if we had 11 players putting in the effort that Cantwell currently is then we wouldn't be falling down the league into mid-table.

Edited October 27, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

34 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Was incredibly unlucky not to score, and that delightful little chip over the defence to Pukki was unlucky also.

He has always been over rated, but if we had 11 players putting in the effort that Cantwell currently is then we wouldn't be falling down the league into mid-table.

Is he really putting in that much effort? Or does it look more so, against some of his previous lacklustre efforts?

 

Edited October 27, 2022 by Creedence Clearwater Couto

[Richard Richard 186]

Just now, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Is he really putting in that much effort? Or being judged against some of his previous lacklustre efforts?

 

Both his previous efforts during his sulky days and those of his team-mates currently I'd say.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Is he really putting in that much effort? Or does it look more so, against some of his previous lacklustre efforts?

I'd say that its more compared with the efforts of his team mates like Sara, who clearly don't fancy breaking into anything more than a jog. With Sara being particularly lazy, he makes Leroy Fer look like a Gary Holt.

Edited October 27, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[Steve White 24]

Don’t agree with the statement that Hayden and Gibbs cannot play together- a lot of the midfield problems stem from the players in midfield being all over the place - having these two at the base of the midfield would allow the other midfielders to concentrate on attacking plus allowing the full backs to go up. However, Smith must be careful with Hayden’s workload and Gibbs will probably come in when he tires

[vos 155]

Difficult to properly assess Hayden as he is clearly not yet up to speed. At moment would prefer Gibbs. Midfield huge problem at moment. Nunez has suddenly faded and Sara does not look good enough. Would have kept Cantwell on the other night, but it is fair to say he has produced very little so far this season.

 

 

[Richard Richard 186]

1 hour ago, Steve White said:

Don’t agree with the statement that Hayden and Gibbs cannot play together- a lot of the midfield problems stem from the players in midfield being all over the place - having these two at the base of the midfield would allow the other midfielders to concentrate on attacking plus allowing the full backs to go up. However, Smith must be careful with Hayden’s workload and Gibbs will probably come in when he tires

Actually quite like the idea of Gibbs/Hayden as the base midfield players. Play either a 4:4:1:1 or 4:5:1 with Sargent (on current form) up front with Cantwell just behind.

Just don't ask me who the other two midfielders should be from our current crop of under-performers....

[Number9 272]

11 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Great, our creative outlet is busy making tackles..

 

Josh was carrying Max, both of them were in their own half most the game.