So on we go to Burnley tommorow..

[sgncfc 1,223]

In this league, top 2 teams tend to not lose more than 8 or 9 games. We've already lost 5. Blackburn and QPR lose too many to hold any kind of momentum and I don't consider them anything other than play off contenders. Burnley have lost 1 game. They are clearly the best team so far. A draw tomorrow will be a great result.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,679]

7 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

In this league, top 2 teams tend to not lose more than 8 or 9 games. We've already lost 5. Blackburn and QPR lose too many to hold any kind of momentum and I don't consider them anything other than play off contenders. Burnley have lost 1 game. They are clearly the best team so far. A draw tomorrow will be a great result.

To be fair I felt a draw would be great prior to Sheffield and by the end of the final whistle it didnt end up feeling like a good result..  🙃

[nutty nigel 7,509]

34 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Which is a nothing statement considering you can't spell the guys name.

Smith was brought into this club as an improvement, and he failed.. He's now failing at a lower level than the task he was given, and yet there's people saying that he should be judged on his past achievements before we throw the water out (Which we've already done, my I add).

So, we look at his past achievements and see he's historically "At his best", 20+ points off what we require.

You then stick an oar in saying that no-one thinks Smith is an improvement on Farke.... No ****, that's exactly the point being made here!  The discussion is whether we continue with him or not, or turn to a "folk hero" who seemingly ticks far more boxes of the original plan that yielded us happiness and a fair degree of success.

Are you ill🤒

[nutty nigel 7,509]

12 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

In this league, top 2 teams tend to not lose more than 8 or 9 games. We've already lost 5. Blackburn and QPR lose too many to hold any kind of momentum and I don't consider them anything other than play off contenders. Burnley have lost 1 game. They are clearly the best team so far. A draw tomorrow will be a great result.

I've seen enough championship seasons that I didn't really consider us top two even before the season started. I am of course happy to be surprised. Some of our support has become quite arrogant about this bouncing back.

Edited October 24, 2022 by nutty nigel

[cambridgeshire canary 6,679]

10 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I've seen enough championship seasons that I didn't really consider us top two even before the season started. I am of course happy to be surprised. Some of our support has become quite arrogant about this bouncing back.

Not fond of how we are playing but I have said it before but I dont want us to end up going the Watford way of sacking managers on an endless loop once every two months over and over ad over.

[Commonsense 618]

2 hours ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Which top teams have we played then? Sheffield United maybe? Which makes are current plight all the more annoying! 

Weren’t Reading 2nd or 3rd when we played them?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

4 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Not fond of how we are playing but I have said it before but I dont want us to end up going the Watford way of sacking managers on an endless loop once every two months over and over ad over.

Smith has had a year now. Maybe he's out of road? I thought if we lost Saturday and at Burnley he could be. But Saturday's result, and the fact the players appeared to be playing for him, perhaps gives him a few more miles.

But then I remember that Farke was sacked after an away win. So who knows?

[nutty nigel 7,509]

6 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Weren’t Reading 2nd or 3rd when we played them?

They were. And Millwall are top six now. The league is so open that these arguments won't hold water.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

24 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Smith has had a year now. Maybe he's out of road? I thought if we lost Saturday and at Burnley he could be. But Saturday's result, and the fact the players appeared to be playing for him, perhaps gives him a few more miles.

But then I remember that Farke was sacked after an away win. So who knows?

Personally, I don't count time firefighting in the Premier League with an already massively failing inherited squad as time that counts towards rebuilding a team. It was probably useful in terms of understanding where they were falling short at premier League level and what to change next time, but a replacement manager won't have that insight.

Edited October 24, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[nutty nigel 7,509]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Personally, I don't count time firefighting in the Premier League with an already massively failing inherited squad as time that counts towards rebuilding a team.

No but if we fall out of contention those months won't help him. It's all about now.

[Indy 3,283]

Oh so if we’re not counting premiership results Farkes a xxxxx genius! Smith was purely bought in as the Best Chance of Staying up, not to get promoted the following season, if we wanted that then Farke had the perfect resume for that job!

I don’t get this love to keep Smith? I’d love to know what people see that I’m missing?

Lose to Burnley and don’t beat Stoke on Saturday would definitely be enough to get rid!

Edited October 24, 2022 by Indy

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,248]

1 minute ago, Indy said:

 

I don’t get this love to keep Smith? I’d love to know what people see that I’m missing?

Blind loyalty to whatever the club is doing at the time. 

If the club came out and said smith is not the man for the job and they're looking at someone else, they'd all agree that he isn't the man and the new Geezer is the answer. 

[Branston Pickle 3,638]

37 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Weren’t Reading 2nd or 3rd when we played them?

Bristol City - were a form team and top 6.

Tbh league placings until mid-season are a bit pointless - so many sides go on a good/bad run.  It’s pretty stupid to do anything than concentrate on what’s in front of you 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

Just now, nutty nigel said:

No but if we fall out of contention those months won't help him. It's all about now.

It's about where we are at the end of the season, which we have absolutely no way of knowing given that all meaningful performance measures are forbidden on here unless they show something negative. 

So many contradictions in all of these arguments. In some minds, there's no way we will improve under Smith to catch up the five points to the top of the table, but it can easily collapse to drop the nine points to the bottom of the table to be relegated, so we must either get in a manager from a lower European League or the guy who took over from Smith at Brentford because he'd continue according to what Smith had put in place there. 

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

[hogesar 9,618]

5 minutes ago, Indy said:

Oh so if we’re not counting premiership results Farkes a xxxxx genius! Smith was purely bought in as the Best Chance of Staying up, not to get promoted the following season, if we wanted that then Farke had the perfect resume for that job!

I don’t get this love to keep Smith? I’d love to know what people see that I’m missing?

Lose to Burnley and don’t beat Stoke on Saturday would definitely be enough to get rid!

Yes, we must have went for Smith with the belief he could give us a better chance of survival. We amassed a couple more points than last time out but we weren't even close.

I suppose the argument is we could have sacked him at the start of the season for that. I don't think anyone would have been hugely upset by it but some (me perhaps) might have seen it as a bit of a rush-of-blood rather than thought out process.

As it is, we've given him the start of the season and a couple of his own signings. Those own signings are finally about to start playing together, it seems.

I advocated more time for him right at the start of the season after the Cardiff and Wigan games and to be fair, he delivered for a 9 game unbeaten run. Where we are now, I doubt anyone would be furious if we sacked him, although again it might be seen as a bit premature from some.

We've not won in 7 though now, is it? If that reaches 9 then I think it's completely fair to question if someone could have delivered better.

5 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Blind loyalty to whatever the club is doing at the time. 

If the club came out and said smith is not the man for the job and they're looking at someone else, they'd all agree that he isn't the man and the new Geezer is the answer. 

Nope, it's nothing like that at all. I didn't want Farke sacked when he was, which is immediately contrary to 'whatever the club is doing at the time'.

It's about the here and now and weighing up both sides, and trying to be fairly impartial to it. Emotional fan involvement is hugely unhelpful in making strategic decisions.

[Branston Pickle 3,638]

6 minutes ago, Indy said:

I don’t get this love to keep Smith? I’d love to know what people see that I’m missing?

I do think that one of the problems is that a lot never took to Smith and were somewhat unwilling to give him much of a chance. Anyone who wasn’t in that camp has been labelled something they aren’t.  I don’t have any particular ‘love’ to keep him but 100% would not bin anyone without giving them a proper chance.  If it doesn’t work out I’ll happily move onto the next, perhaps the next 5 games to the World Cup will decide things. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

17 minutes ago, Indy said:

Oh so if we’re not counting premiership results Farkes a xxxxx genius! Smith was purely bought in as the Best Chance of Staying up, not to get promoted the following season, if we wanted that then Farke had the perfect resume for that job!

I don’t get this love to keep Smith? I’d love to know what people see that I’m missing?

Lose to Burnley and don’t beat Stoke on Saturday would definitely be enough to get rid!

How do you know the board's decision was purely made on staying up? If Smith had come in post-relegation he'd have made perfect sense in terms of rebuilding to be promoted and survive in the premier League as well.

It's not 'love to keep Smith'; it's about allowing time to properly develop instead of cutting everything short prematurely, just as happened with Farke.

Edited October 24, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Indy 3,283]

10 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I do think that one of the problems is that a lot never took to Smith and were somewhat unwilling to give him much of a chance. Anyone who wasn’t in that camp has been labelled something they aren’t.  I don’t have any particular ‘love’ to keep him but 100% would not bin anyone without giving them a proper chance.  If it doesn’t work out I’ll happily move onto the next, perhaps the next 5 games to the World Cup will decide things. 

Trouble is 5 games could result in a couple points! I’d be pulling the trigger this week and get the replacement in before the World Cup, giving him time to evaluate the squad, gain experience with them and set up a system to suite our best team. Robins for me.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

2 minutes ago, Indy said:

Trouble is 5 games could result in a couple points! I’d be pulling the trigger this week and get the replacement in before the World Cup, giving him time to evaluate the squad, gain experience with them and set up a system to suite our best team. Robins for me.

It could also result in 15 points, as happened with five games on the trot earlier in the season.

[Indy 3,283]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It could also result in 15 points, as happened with five games on the trot earlier in the season.

So we write off 1 win in 7 as it’s just a blip, just carry on, so lose at Burnley do you start to change your thinking? How long are you going to give Smith? If you could actually see any improvement in any area then I’d be a little more forgiving, but the football is uninspiring, the players don’t look comfortable in most part and the collective atmosphere is just not there!

Surely the bounce of a inspirational manager, who has ties to the club who might come in and actually feed off the fans might get this squad performing better? Or we just plod along waiting for the run of games where we just about beat a few teams who don’t perform on the day? Well we all have opinions unfortunately the fans have all gone missing and the great atmosphere once generated at Carrow Road has left with Buendia & Farke.

[lake district canary 4,531]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It could also result in 15 points, as happened with five games on the trot earlier in the season.

Yes, anything is possible and we should be up for it. But we need to be a bit more cohesive as a team - too many not performing at their best level yet. 

It feels like we need inspiration from somewhere on the pitch - they can all play well, but there is just something lacking. Maybe we lost too many big characters last year and haven't replaced them with big enough characters. Sarge looks the business and so does Pukki, but behind them there is a lot of improving to do.  Sara looks promising and if Nunez can find his sparkle, we should look a lot better - and with Hayden in the side we should be better at the back.

[Samwam27 519]

Now Hayden and Gian are back, we have our best CDM and strongest LB to give balance. There can be no more excuses. Same with Sara. They can only get better and sharper (fingers crossed no more injuries)

Lose to Burnley and we've got poor results against all the top teams this season. Pressure will and should be on. Then comes Stoke, not playing well and a return for Alex.

Sheff showed an improvement in performance but yet again no 90 min performance. I'm starting to have doubts about when Smith or if will get us clicking, but we have no idea if Board have any concerns yet at this stage 

[Samwam27 519]

Have there been any rumours the board is discontent with Smith, or that we're being linked with others managers (e.g Russell due to them going above us!)

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

2 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Yes, anything is possible and we should be up for it. But we need to be a bit more cohesive as a team - too many not performing at their best level yet. 

It feels like we need inspiration from somewhere on the pitch - they can all play well, but there is just something lacking. Maybe we lost too many big characters last year and haven't replaced them with big enough characters. Sarge looks the business and so does Pukki, but behind them there is a lot of improving to do.  Sara looks promising and if Nunez can find his sparkle, we should look a lot better - and with Hayden in the side we should be better at the back.

Definitely. I'm hoping Hayden's experience will give some leadership in the middle of the park as he regains match fitness. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,511]

4 minutes ago, Samwam27 said:

Now Hayden and Gian are back, we have our best CDM and strongest LB to give balance. There can be no more excuses. Same with Sara. They can only get better and sharper (fingers crossed no more injuries)

Lose to Burnley and we've got poor results against all the top teams this season. Pressure will and should be on. Then comes Stoke, not playing well and a return for Alex.

Sheff showed an improvement in performance but yet again no 90 min performance. I'm starting to have doubts about when Smith or if will get us clicking, but we have no idea if Board have any concerns yet at this stage 

True. It was about a 60 minute performance, which coincidentally was about when Hayden started flagging. I really think he's going to be important if he doesn't pick up an injury again. 

[Capt. Pants 4,200]

2 minutes ago, Samwam27 said:

Now Hayden and Gian are back, we have our best CDM and strongest LB to give balance. There can be no more excuses. Same with Sara. They can only get better and sharper (fingers crossed no more injuries)

Lose to Burnley and we've got poor results against all the top teams this season. Pressure will and should be on. Then comes Stoke, not playing well and a return for Alex.

Sheff showed an improvement in performance but yet again no 90 min performance. I'm starting to have doubts about when Smith or if will get us clicking, but we have no idea if Board have any concerns yet at this stage 

I think that's fair. Webber will have to lead on the discontent though, I can't see the BOD doing anything. They couldn't even make an immediate decision on Farke.

I suspect Smith will get until the World Cup though assuming we beat Stoke, which he has to really.

[pete 318]

Are these really Smith's signings?  Do you think Webber stood aside and let Smith sign Hayden, Sara and Nunez.  Ramsey however has Smith's dabs all over it and the juries out on the wisdom of that move.

 

 

[Mr Angry 1,545]

14 minutes ago, pete said:

Are these really Smith's signings?  Do you think Webber stood aside and let Smith sign Hayden, Sara and Nunez.  Ramsey however has Smith's dabs all over it and the juries out on the wisdom of that move.

 

 

He made positive noises about Hayden:

[repman 634]

14 minutes ago, pete said:

Are these really Smith's signings?  Do you think Webber stood aside and let Smith sign Hayden, Sara and Nunez.  Ramsey however has Smith's dabs all over it and the juries out on the wisdom of that move.

 

 

Hayden was by all accounts a Smith signing. Nunez and Sara almost certainly not, but with the model we have that's the way it should be.

[Google Bot 3,259]

1 minute ago, Capt. Pants said:

I suspect Smith will get until the World Cup though assuming we beat Stoke, which he has to really.

A loss tomorrow would leave us 7 points behind Burnley who are on a rebuild, put us on a run of 2 points from 18, unable to beat top half rivals, In a season we started as favourites.

I don't know if we can afford to give him the boot, but it does make you wonder what decision would be made if it wasn't to cost us millions to do so.

In my opinion there's no way he turns this round, especially when you look back at the small percentage who wanted him as manager to begin with:

He'll certainly have some nice payouts on his previous achievement record, we play poor tomorrow and he's a goner (imo).