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cambridgeshire canary

So on we go to Burnley tommorow..

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25 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Only now starting? 

Well, I have been saying we have been playing some poor football and we were riding our luck at times. What more do you want me to say? 

 

I was hoping things would turn. Is that really so wrong? To have hope and positivity?

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It's unlikely they are going to sit in with 2 banks of 4 and did concede 2 goals at the weekend. Can't say that we look like we're going to win but this will really show where we are as a side. There might be more opportunity to play football rather than have 80% of the possession and spend half the game playing from side to side only to concede 3 goals from crosses.

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I hate the fact I'm am hoping for a hiding and Smith to be fired post game.

Sorry guys, just want this over and the next phase to begin.

Now if Smith's phase begins tomorrow with a huge win I'm equally fine

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Burnley are the least-inconsistent of the top teams this season. I couldn't bring myself to say consistent because nobody is really taking this league by the scruff of the neck.

It'll be an indicator as to how close / far away we are. Draw and good performance or a win and we can start to look forwards.

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Just now, hogesar said:

Burnley are the least-inconsistent of the top teams this season. I couldn't bring myself to say consistent because nobody is really taking this league by the scruff of the neck.

It'll be an indicator as to how close / far away we are. Draw and good performance or a win and we can start to look forwards.

Why is Burnley now the indicator of where we are? That was supposed to be Watford, then Sheff U, now it's Burnley. 

If we lose to Burnley will it then be in form QPR that shows us where we are? There comes a point where " seeing where we are against XYZ " has to stop and we realise exactly where we are, and that's outside the top 6 where we fully deserve to be on performances and results and leadership. 

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17 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Well, I have been saying we have been playing some poor football and we were riding our luck at times. What more do you want me to say? 

 

I was hoping things would turn. Is that really so wrong? To have hope and positivity?

I think the repeated sneery comments with copious laughing or sarcastic winking emojis aimed at people concerned by Smith for a while is probably what some take exception with. I’m hopeful of a turnaround as it’s the fastest and least disrupted outcome, but I still want Smith out medium term and if we continue playing poorly much shorter term as this would seem the best outcome. 

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Burnley are no better than the rest of the teams in this division. It's dog eat dog this season, just have to hope we stick in there and get promoted somehow. Still got the players to do it against any team, including Burnley. 

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5 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Why is Burnley now the indicator of where we are? That was supposed to be Watford, then Sheff U, now it's Burnley. 

If we lose to Burnley will it then be in form QPR that shows us where we are? There comes a point where " seeing where we are against XYZ " has to stop and we realise exactly where we are, and that's outside the top 6 where we fully deserve to be on performances and results and leadership. 

Well, it's slightly down to the nature of the Championship. It was Sheffield United at the start of the month, when we were both top 2. And if it's still Sheff United then a point away from home and scoring 2 goals would be a positive, not a negative.

I think we pretty much have the points we deserve so far overall, so yeah our position is a relatively fair reflection right now. When there's only 9 points between 13th and 1st, you can only really go by the 'current best' teams, which is kind of my point.

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And my Point is we need to stop "seeing where we are" relative to who the months current hot topic is. 

We are not top 2 candidates this year, under this regime. That's clear. 

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I don’t like the fact he said he’s not concerned about us dropping out of the top 6. All smacks a bit of Costa del Colney at the moment.

also now using the “we had no defensive midfielder for 15 games” as an excuse. Quite. If only someone could have foreseen that only having one in the squad was a risk. 

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7 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Burnley are no better than the rest of the teams in this division. It's dog eat dog this season, just have to hope we stick in there and get promoted somehow. Still got the players to do it against any team, including Burnley. 

I disagree and currently they’re better than 21 other teams. It won’t be far off that come the end of the season I suspect. 
Hope is the right term, because it’s becoming more based on hope than the initial expectation

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Burnley had a much greater squad upheaval than us, have a manager who has only had four months to impose his style on the team and oversaw a transfer window in which saw his club net £40 odd million in profit.

We've a squad that only really saw departures of players we were happy to see the back of, have a manager who has had since November last year to mold his squad and enjoyed a net spend on his squad in the last window.

Burnley haven't lost since August, we've managed two points in fifteen.

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2 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Burnley had a much greater squad upheaval than us, have a manager who has only had four months to impose his style on the team and oversaw a transfer window in which saw his club net £40 odd million in profit.

We've a squad that only really saw departures of players we were happy to see the back of, have a manager who has had since November last year to mold his squad and enjoyed a net spend on his squad in the last window.

Burnley haven't lost since August, we've managed two points in fifteen.

Very true, although so far that's only accounted for 5 points difference between the teams. So far being the key point, of course. Big difference between 2 points and 8 points after Tuesday..

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11 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Well, it's slightly down to the nature of the Championship. It was Sheffield United at the start of the month, when we were both top 2. And if it's still Sheff United then a point away from home and scoring 2 goals would be a positive, not a negative.

I think we pretty much have the points we deserve so far overall, so yeah our position is a relatively fair reflection right now. When there's only 9 points between 13th and 1st, you can only really go by the 'current best' teams, which is kind of my point.

There you go again. Posting sensible, well thought out comments. What are you doing on this board? This is the place for negativity and sneering at others, for hoping we lose and the manager goes. I’m no lover of Smith but the rubbish posted on here recently is unbelievable. We were away at one of the top teams on Saturday and held our own. As you say the top of the division keeps changing so the teams we need to measure ourselves against change.

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2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Very true, although so far that's only accounted for 5 points difference between the teams. So far being the key point, of course. Big difference between 2 points and 8 points after Tuesday..

Agreed, but the majority of Burnley's dropped points happened in August, understandable given the greater transition they were going through relative to us. The majority of our points have been dropped in the past few weeks.

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4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Agreed, but the majority of Burnley's dropped points happened in August, understandable given the greater transition they were going through relative to us. The majority of our points have been dropped in the past few weeks.

However, when we were top people posting on here claimed we hadn’t played any of the top teams. The same is true of Burnley since August. The only side they have played who are currently doing well is Swansea, and they weren’t up there at the time they played each other.

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3 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

However, when we were top people posting on here claimed we hadn’t played any of the top teams. The same is true of Burnley since August. The only side they have played who are currently doing well is Swansea, and they weren’t up there at the time they played each other.

Swansea had won four in a row before they played Burnley. And subsequently won the two matches after Burnley drubbed them.

But yes, they've had a half decent run of fixtures, but they've scored more than anyone else in the league and have the third best defence. It's difficult to see anything other than a comfortable home win tomorrow.

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I want Dean gone but.........in all honesty does anyone of us trust Webber et Al about getting a new 'decent' manager in?? Yes Martin has the club experience but a new manager.....KK is top of my list but can't see him coming here with Webber etc. So who are we actually able to get??

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29 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Burnley are no better than the rest of the teams in this division.

1 Loss in 16 and a +14 Goal difference puts them in for a good shout, though.

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4 minutes ago, RugbyCanary said:

I want Dean gone but.........in all honesty does anyone of us trust Webber et Al about getting a new 'decent' manager in?? Yes Martin has the club experience but a new manager.....KK is top of my list but can't see him coming here with Webber etc. So who are we actually able to get??

Genuine question. What is it about KK that makes him top of the list? 

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47 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Why is Burnley now the indicator of where we are? That was supposed to be Watford, then Sheff U, now it's Burnley. 

If we lose to Burnley will it then be in form QPR that shows us where we are? There comes a point where " seeing where we are against XYZ " has to stop and we realise exactly where we are, and that's outside the top 6 where we fully deserve to be on performances and results and leadership. 

That swings both ways, seeing as those at the other end of the spectrum were doing the same during the nine-game unbeaten run.

Ultimately, we'll only really know where we are at game 23, seeing as results, form, and stats were all dismissed as unreliable earlier in the season when we were winning week after week.

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I was disappointed getting Smith in as I wanted someone who was known for playing possession based attacking football like under Farke, but with the hope they could sort out our defence. Smith was probably the best of a bad bunch in fairness but did show to me we have abandoned our philosophy to start from scratch again, which was always going to take time.

I am just hoping we Hayden coming back to that it stops our leaky defence and we can piece together our midfield and find the right balance. Hopefully Dimi and Hayden will be the catalyst to turn round our season when fully match fit.

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3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That swings both ways, seeing as those at the other end of the spectrum were doing the same during the nine-game unbeaten run.

Ultimately, we'll only really know where we are at game 23, seeing as results, form, and stats were all dismissed as unreliable earlier in the season when we were winning week after week.

On current form, the season will be as good as over after 23 games.

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4 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

I'd settle for a point against Burnley tomorrow....but not if it means we also squandered a 2 goal lead....

And would you like that point on a plate or floating half an inch above it Sir ? 😇😂

Edited by wcorkcanary

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31 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

I was disappointed getting Smith in as I wanted someone who was known for playing possession based attacking football like under Farke, but with the hope they could sort out our defence. Smith was probably the best of a bad bunch in fairness but did show to me we have abandoned our philosophy to start from scratch again, which was always going to take time.

I am just hoping we Hayden coming back to that it stops our leaky defence and we can piece together our midfield and find the right balance. Hopefully Dimi and Hayden will be the catalyst to turn round our season when fully match fit.

Retrospective assessment of Smith at Brentford:

Quote

 

Having worked together under the leadership of Dean Smith, it was a match made in heaven as both Smith and Thomas Frank shared a similar approach to the game.

That was based around a high-tempo, possession-based game which sees the team move forward with pace and intelligent movement.

It was an approach which served Brentford particularly well under Dean Smith, and when he left to join Aston Villa, it seemed a no-brainer to hand the baton on to Thomas Frank who could simply continue the work that had already been started at Griffin Park.

 

Source: https://www.football.london/brentford-fc/thomas-frank-how-brentford-evolved-15811501

At Aston Villa, written during Dean Smith's second season after Aston Villa beat Liverpool 7-2. 

Quote

 

VERTICALITY & QUICK ATTACKING TRANSITIONS

A major feature of Aston Villa’s play this season has been the fact that they look almost destined to score every time they advance the ball into their opponent’s half. They’ve had a very vertical approach to life in the Premier League this season, favouring long-balls and through-balls to get the ball forward quickly, rather than a slower build-up in which they switch the ball from side to side, looking to shift the opposition like Everton or Tottenham. They aren’t a typical counter attacking side, but they also don’t hang onto the ball for terribly long. Their approach is very systematic and although it favours the left, they look to get the ball forwards as quickly and often as possible. That is further evidenced by their 16 shots per game (3rd best in the league) and 7 goals from open-play (2nd best in the league), despite their possession only being 47.5% (14th best in the league). Relative to their possession, they are incredibly effective at creating chances. The running power, ability in tight areas and dribbling speed of players like Jack Grealish, John McGinn and now Ross Barkley, will continue to be important to their play. But their vertical passing and movement off-the-ball to get forward is perhaps even more significant. They’ve attempted 64 long balls per game so far in the league, the fifth highest. Without a target man like Wesley Said or Keinan Davis, whose number 1 job is to engage in hold-up play high up the pitch, they haven’t been as successful at actually completing these attempts. But it still demonstrates an important feature of Aston Villa’s play and one of their key mechanisms for creating the high volume of chances that they have done so far this season.

 

https://themastermindsite.com/2020/10/05/dean-smith-aston-villa-tactical-analysis/

Overall, the characterisation at Brentford is not dissimilar to how Farke would be characterised, while the approach at Aston Villa demonstrates a pragmatism to adapting that philosophy to getting results  necessary to survive in the Premier League. 

Also somewhat ironic that Thomas Frank has been mentioned in the names banded about by those desperate to replace Smith. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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42 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Agreed, but the majority of Burnley's dropped points happened in August, understandable given the greater transition they were going through relative to us. The majority of our points have been dropped in the past few weeks.

Yep, I agree with that and it's the biggest concern I currently have.

36 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

However, when we were top people posting on here claimed we hadn’t played any of the top teams. The same is true of Burnley since August. The only side they have played who are currently doing well is Swansea, and they weren’t up there at the time they played each other.

Also agree with this, they've had a good fixture list although if they do play well and win against us having also beaten Swansea, they'll be the "current" favourites.

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