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Bert

I am just fed up

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I am a passionate Norwich fan home and away. I live for my football 

Even in the dark times of the past relegation to the 3rd tier as an example, I have never felt apathy before but that is exactly what I am feeling now

i am not looking forward to going to the Carra in fact I am dreading it.

how has it come to this, why can’t smith/jones/Webber see they are ripping the heart out of the club

i really have little optimism that it will change anytime soon. The fact that Webber doesn’t want to be here shows in the way the club is performing

what can be done, I have given up even musing about the solutions

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Relax Bertio.....We'll go barnstorming to the Blades and Burnley and collect the maximum six points and all the negatives will be soon be forgotten....Be positive, we're on the up!.....Just like this flyin' fella....below.....

Pig Fly GIF - Pig Fly When Pigs Fly - Discover & Share GIFs..."OINK!"...

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I think what with covid and so on, some people have rather become ‘entitled’ and can’t seem to see the bigger picture.

I’m in my 50s and we are far better than many  seasons I’ve supported us.  The idea that it isn’t is ridiculous.  

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I hate to keep flogging a dead horse, but I wish Farke was still here. He made me truly love football and supporting Norwich again.


Just to clarify, I'm not saying we should bring him back - the boat has sailed, I just wish we had that atmosphere back. 

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1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

I think what with covid and so on, some people have rather become ‘entitled’ and can’t seem to see the bigger picture.

I’m in my 50s and we are far better than many  seasons I’ve supported us.  The idea that it isn’t is ridiculous.  

The latest topic is always the worst Branstono, it's how these guys get through the day. Imagine if there was nothing to whine about, their existence would be pointless....well, more pointless.

 

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We are bang average at the moment. 

I've seen a lot worse under Roeder, Hughton and others, a lot better under Lambert, Neil and Farke and others. This is meh.

NCFC is very cyclical we've had our good years for a while, a period of ****ness awaits.

Hopefully there will be fundamental changes soon at the very top so this 'bigger picture' becomes much more evident.

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Just now, Capt. Pants said:

We are bang average at the moment. 

I've seen a lot worse under Roeder, Hughton and others, a lot better under Lambert, Neil and Farke and others. This is meh.

NCFC is very cyclical we've had our good years for a while, a period of ****ness awaits.

Hopefully there will be fundamental changes soon at the very top so this 'bigger picture' becomes much more evident.

Roeder was the worst for me. I think it was the only time I've ever not wanted a manager to turn it round and went to games actually hoping to lose to hasten his departure.

With Smith, I don't have that personal animosity and still would love it if he somehow turned it round, improved how we play and went on another winning streak.

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33 minutes ago, Bert said:

I am a passionate Norwich fan home and away. I live for my football 

Even in the dark times of the past relegation to the 3rd tier as an example, I have never felt apathy before but that is exactly what I am feeling now

i am not looking forward to going to the Carra in fact I am dreading it.

how has it come to this, why can’t smith/jones/Webber see they are ripping the heart out of the club

i really have little optimism that it will change anytime soon. The fact that Webber doesn’t want to be here shows in the way the club is performing

what can be done, I have given up even musing about the solutions

I personally wouldnt live for football, as you will have a miserable life being a Norwich fan.

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8 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Roeder was the worst for me. I think it was the only time I've ever not wanted a manager to turn it round and went to games actually hoping to lose to hasten his departure.

With Smith, I don't have that personal animosity and still would love it if he somehow turned it round, improved how we play and went on another winning streak.

Never been there - can’t want us to lose, it just isn’t in my genes….but Roeder was not nice. Grant was so bad it was almost funny.

Edited by Branston Pickle

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We've had worse sides but i'm struggling to think of a period where i've enjoyed watching us less than the last 2 seasons. 

Its worse when you still have some good players and see tham being wasted than it was when we had no good players and were rtuly sh*t. I can accept us being sh*t, what i struggle with is when I think we are underperforming. 

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12 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

We are bang average at the moment. 

I've seen a lot worse under Roeder, Hughton and others, a lot better under Lambert, Neil and Farke and others. This is meh.

NCFC is very cyclical we've had our good years for a while, a period of ****ness awaits.

Hopefully there will be fundamental changes soon at the very top so this 'bigger picture' becomes much more evident.

and we've not taken advantaghe of the good years because of the lack of resources and selfishness of our owners. 

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Yes we've all seen worse era's Roeder, Grant, The late 90's etc. 

But these last couple of seasons have been so, Just, Meh that is the only expression I can think of, in the previous bad times there was anger and desperation to turn it around and sort things out. 

Now? There's just a great big feeling of ugh whatever here we go again. Is there abit of entitlement when it comes to the championship after the previous two titles? Absolutely, but I also believe it's 50/50 with a great big feeling of whats the point. 

We all want to win, of course we do, but what's the end goal? Promotion for another humiliation (which on this showing lately I'd expect us to break Derby's record) and I think that's a massive part of the feeling at the minute. 

Its a catch 22 we all hate losing and playing the way we do, but also hate promotion and getting humiliated 🤷🤣

 

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28 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

and we've not taken advantaghe of the good years because of the lack of resources and selfishness of our owners. 

Spot on.

All the best Big K.Scott.

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Sure, the ‘Grant/Roeder’ years were a nadir, but for the club as a whole - not just on the field. It was a 5 year slide from the Premier League (under NW) to League One, during which our finances & playing squad deteriorated steadily. From Huckerby/Ashton to Lee/Mooney. 

Of course we’ve not descended to that level (yet) - but the circumstances were very different on and off the pitch then. Therefore I think it’s an unbalanced comparison to use with at anyone finding the current situation to be their own low point. 

For me, the supposed ‘value’ of this squad - and the fact that many of them were considered as Premier League standard by the recruitment team - is a valid reason for why the abject lack of quality on the pitch this season is creating so much disenfranchisement & discontent. 

I didn’t care how cr*p Julien Brellier was when I was watching our out-of-depth loanee No.8 last year any more than I’m likely to tap a Gibson critic on the arm now and say “think *he’s* rubbish? You should’ve seen us with Adrian Leijer at CB”. 

Those comparisons are pointless. They also don’t make it feel any better right now. 

The fact is, this current crop are supposed to be better footballers. Therefore they should be. Most of them certainly cost us enough. If they’re underperforming or not being allowed to play to their strengths, then it’s a management issue. And for me, that’s why right now the lack of quality, the signs of players going backwards, lessons not being learned and increasing disconnect feels worse.

Don’t confuse expectations with entitlement either - I do expect better from this squad and this management team. We all should. 
 

Of course, Smith’s not the utter so-and-so Roeder was, I don’t dislike him to anything like the same degree. But there’s a vacuum there which is reflected on the pitch and in the empty yellow & green seats. 
 

As Capt. Pants rightly says, we move in cycles at this club and we desperately need the next (hopefully upward) cycle to start sharpish. 

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I understand how the OP feels. I am 60, I love Norwich City, I have always said that only bad health or worse will stop me going to games and I do not consider myself as entitled...........but............I have no connection with Dean Smith and what he is trying to do (I have no idea on that) whatsoever, his appointment seemed wrong to me and I have seen nothing yet that changes my mind on that. We get a lot of noise about the unbeaten run, but if you watched those games we were far from convincing, and the last three results are not really a surprise. 

I sit at Carrow Rd and I watch the team I love with no identity, we have some talented players but Dean Smith has no idea how to get the best out of them, his formations, team selections and tactics are baffling. I will always cling to the hope that he proves me and the rest of us that doubt him wrong, we will see, but personally I feel that his tenure is down their with the likes of Glenn Roeder and the "Blarneymeister" Hamilton............

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I've been watching City for 55 years. I posted yesterday to say that this is the first time I've ever struggled to be enthusiastic about going to a match. Someone last night told me it was worse under Hughton but I disagree. The football back then was boring but the players at that time did at least give their all.

Last night they looked like they didn't want to be there. I think that stems from the top. I've never had the feeling that Smith wants to be here or buys into the club. He just took the job for the money and probably won't look backwards when he eventually leaves. 

I've read posts today suggesting the players aren't as good as we think. I don't think any of them are PL quality but you could say that for every other club in this division. It's incredibly ordinary and we should be sweeping teams like Luton aside.

Inject some passion into these players and we'd be promoted quite easily. More importantly, I might actually enjoy going to Carrow Road. 

 

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1 hour ago, Bert said:

I am a passionate Norwich fan home and away. I live for my football 

Even in the dark times of the past relegation to the 3rd tier as an example, I have never felt apathy before but that is exactly what I am feeling now

i am not looking forward to going to the Carra in fact I am dreading it.

how has it come to this, why can’t smith/jones/Webber see they are ripping the heart out of the club

i really have little optimism that it will change anytime soon. The fact that Webber doesn’t want to be here shows in the way the club is performing

what can be done, I have given up even musing about the solutions

I don't think that this is a Norwich problem as much as it's a football problem. Football in this country has been having its heart ripped out from the top down over the last 25 years, slowly but surely it's gone from being a game for the people to being a soulless product where the players have no connection with the clubs or places they live and are just there doing a job. This started with the big clubs and has spread all the way through the premier League, most of the way through the championship and some way into league one, the knock on effect of this has been to give the smaller teams in league one and league two so little income relative to the required expenditure that they are made up of whoever they can afford on short term contracts with a smattering of youth players loaned from the leagues above so they've lost their identity as well (see the squad churn charts here for evidence https://experimental361.com/2022/09/02/squad-retention-2-september-2022/l).

This decline in connection between clubs and their locale was exacerbated/accelerated by covid and the lack of fans... 

As for what the solution is, I haven't got a scooby, the box has been opened, there's no way to get the demons back in...

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The big question is , is this just a blip or are we on a downward spiral sadly I think it's the latter , I just don't see Smith turning it around yesterday was painful to watch , no quality, no passion , no nothing and I don't buy into the Luton played well thing they really didn't although their goal was well taken , were a big fish in a small pond and were at home to a mickey mouse club like Luton and hardly test there keeper , WHAT A JOKE !😢

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Similar to others , last night i actually would have left early but my lad would have nothing of it. 

At 53 i would also point out ive never left a game early. 

Talking in the car on the way home to Cambridge ive come to the conclusion i feel its the waste of the last few years that has got me . Sure SW runs on about the great training ground ( which is correct ) but equally i just dont see the progression in team strength that the promotions and parachute payments should have given us. 

What is it , 50% of the team is still from 3 years ago . Sure they did a job then but we are aiming for a premiership place and for me we just havent moved on enough . What did SW say about pissing the money up the wall ???  Well its still soaking wet Stuart. 

I would actually be happier in 8th place but with a growing team. A team that doesnt get promoted but is then built on again for next year that is solid and upcoming . 

Aarons, Cantwell, Gibson, Handley, McLean, Onel,  are 5 just off the top of my head as examples. ok players but not good enough to build on and move up. 

And speaking of Max, goodness what a shell he has become. Had a couple of go's last but those aside seems very shy of taking on the player in front 

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1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

Never been there - can’t want us to lose, it just isn’t in my genes….but Roeder was not nice. Grant was so bad it was almost funny.

I was devastated Grant didn't work. He's an absolutely cracking bloke, was so happy when he was appointed. But it was just awful.

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“Football’s the kind of game where, if your teams doing badly, it gets you into the mode of having a laugh at losing. You actually enjoy looking forward to the next tragic defeat. There’s nothing else that gives me that ability. It serves an absolutely brilliant, beautiful purpose. It’s the theatre of emotions, not dreams. The biggest joy of being a football fan is that there is ultimately no joy in it at all.” - John Lydon 

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2 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

I’m in my 50s and we are far better than many  seasons I’ve supported us.  The idea that it isn’t is ridiculous.  

Its about the trajctory, nobody is claiming this is the destination.

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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15 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I was devastated Grant didn't work. He's an absolutely cracking bloke, was so happy when he was appointed. But it was just awful.

He very classily left without taking compensation though, in acknowledgement that he wasn't the man for the job.

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2 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

I think what with covid and so on, some people have rather become ‘entitled’ and can’t seem to see the bigger picture.

I’m in my 50s and we are far better than many  seasons I’ve supported us.  The idea that it isn’t is ridiculous.  

What is the bigger picture?

We have spent 3 of the last seven seasons in the EPL yet in terms of personnel we are going backwards. We have received roughly £160M in parachute payments.

Two of our most expensive signings are out on loan. We bring a loan player who hasn't played a full half of football and we are now a third of the way through the season.

We have nobody left coming through who we can sell for £15-£25M.

We displayed our loyalty to arguably our best ever coach by sacking him a day after winning and bringing a coach who had just been sacked. Yet still want supporters to show the same loyalty and to accept below par performance as anything other than a retrograde step.

That is the bigger picture, not this blind loyalty and belief that if you dare to criticise the board, coach or players you are disloyal and a NINO.

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1 hour ago, mrdi said:

Sure, the ‘Grant/Roeder’ years were a nadir, but for the club as a whole - not just on the field. It was a 5 year slide from the Premier League (under NW) to League One, during which our finances & playing squad deteriorated steadily. From Huckerby/Ashton to Lee/Mooney. 

Of course we’ve not descended to that level (yet) - but the circumstances were very different on and off the pitch then. Therefore I think it’s an unbalanced comparison to use with at anyone finding the current situation to be their own low point. 

For me, the supposed ‘value’ of this squad - and the fact that many of them were considered as Premier League standard by the recruitment team - is a valid reason for why the abject lack of quality on the pitch this season is creating so much disenfranchisement & discontent. 

I didn’t care how cr*p Julien Brellier was when I was watching our out-of-depth loanee No.8 last year any more than I’m likely to tap a Gibson critic on the arm now and say “think *he’s* rubbish? You should’ve seen us with Adrian Leijer at CB”. 

Those comparisons are pointless. They also don’t make it feel any better right now. 

The fact is, this current crop are supposed to be better footballers. Therefore they should be. Most of them certainly cost us enough. If they’re underperforming or not being allowed to play to their strengths, then it’s a management issue. And for me, that’s why right now the lack of quality, the signs of players going backwards, lessons not being learned and increasing disconnect feels worse.

Don’t confuse expectations with entitlement either - I do expect better from this squad and this management team. We all should. 
 

Of course, Smith’s not the utter so-and-so Roeder was, I don’t dislike him to anything like the same degree. But there’s a vacuum there which is reflected on the pitch and in the empty yellow & green seats. 
 

As Capt. Pants rightly says, we move in cycles at this club and we desperately need the next (hopefully upward) cycle to start sharpish. 

Very good post. 

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59 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

 

This decline in connection between clubs and their locale was exacerbated/accelerated by covid and the lack of fans... 

As for what the solution is, I haven't got a scooby, the box has been opened, there's no way to get the demons back in...

Whilst accepting that there is generally a decline with connection between club and fans I don't think that is the reason we are in this position.

whatever his faults were as a premier league manager the one thing Farke did brilliantly was to bring a sense of connection back between the fans, the players and the club. Always easy to do when winning but even when it started to go wrong you still had the sense we were all in it together.

Sadly now I dont sense the current manager or many of the players could give a stuff about the club or the fans.

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I don't think it helps with the the state that the game is in either.. VAR, officiating and ever changing rules continually take center stage.  Clubs spending ridiculous money, clubs borrowing ridiculous money.  There's more talk around business models than there is football... And even the football chat is swamped with hipster anagrams to make people feel smart.

Then the realisation that for us to compete beyond bottom 3 we either have to be incredibly lucky with development of key players who decide to stay on for extra season or two - or a large cash injection, that we efficiently utilise.

When you pile how plain boring we are on top of that, it does leave you feeling pretty dejected.  It doesn't take much to get the supporters on-side, but we can't even offer a bit of passion.... The body language is almost as **** as our passing.

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Alright Bill- Sorry, Bert, you do have a point. From what I have seen here and there across social media 'meh' and 'apathy' seems to be the current prevailing mood 

Edited by cambridgeshire canary

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