The first 12 games vs 20/21 and 18/19 and Smith's problem

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Have been digging around online to draw some comparatives with the prior two championship campaigns to hopefully spark some discussion – not just with how things are stacking up statistically, I understand this is not everyone’s cup of tea (nods to Dean Smith), but also to try to understand the current, pretty muted, mood of the fanbase.

So here we go, I haven't covered everything I want to so might add some other bits to this later: 

 

 

 

Average position of teams faced (below) – our easy start has been noted across the board and a look to the prior 2 championship seasons does back this up – with the average position of teams faced (based on current standings) being 16^th. On comparison, 2020/21 represented a marginally more challenging start with an average position of 14^th, albeit still on the favourable side, and 2018/19 more challenging still but remaining pretty middle-of-the-road overall. Notably a difficult opening 5 games, and overall more teams being played from the top (5) and bottom third (6) as opposed to the middle third (1). This certainly does bring the importance of October more into light, as we are naturally beginning to play a larger portion of sides in and around us.

 

Percentage of player gametime lost – i.e. of the players who played the previous year in the league over 90 minutes, how many did we lose and to what extent were their minutes lost in the teams overall playing minutes?

This one is really surprising to me. On the surface it felt like, with only 4 senior signings made and no players unwilfully pinched from premier league clubs last year, that we had retained most of the squad. But we have actually lost a significant chunk of it - the 4 loanees, Rupp, PLM, Rashica, Tzolis and Placheta all out on loan. At the other end we’ve brought Cantwell back from the cold, Sinani, Hugill, Hernandez have all returned from loan spells. Byram and Omobamidele back from long-term injury layoffs. Gibbs has also broken into the side. As a result the player turnover at the club is much higher than what it ‘feels like’. Particularly on comparison to 2020/21 where we only lost a very small percentage of playing time from the prior season. Whilst none of these changes were done against the club’s will, there is surely a degree of patience which should be afforded to Smith through a period of many changes.

This is another aspect which makes 2018/19 such a special season, we lost 14 'playing' individuals from the prior season, including Maddison, Oliveira, Josh Murphy, Angus Gunn, Harrison Reed, Hoolahan, amongst others. We replaced them with cheap overseas players, spending little and massively cutting down the wage bill. There was nothing to get excited about from this, nor from the prior season's performance under Farke, yet the team delivered the most memorable and chaotic campaign I have ever seen despite expectations being at a serious low!

I haven't considered injuries in the above, and might come back to this, but my impression is that the notable holes in Smith's central midfield and at left back have been much more significant on the team than any pains we were suffering early on in 18/19 and 20/21. Albeit we were fielding Sorensen at left back from the Brentford away game in 2020/21 - and worse injuries came in the following month or so to extent we could barely field 11 senior players!

So yes whilst the start has been favourable, player turnover has been high and we are suffering through multiple injuries to vital areas on the pitch, despite this we’re matching 2020/21 for points accumulated and surpassing 2018/19, with more goals scored to boot and only less conceded in 2020/21. With key players to come back into the fray we look like an excellent shout to finish in the automatic places this season.

So why is everyone so miserable?

Clearly, none of the above statistics can illustrate the ‘eye-test’ in how our undeniably strong numbers have accumulated this season; this is where Smith seems to be failing for many. It seems unlikely right now that anything under Smith this season will ever surpass peak Farkeball, but a more emotionless look at the results above under Farke at this stage does show there may be an overreaction to what we have seen so far.

Don’t think about the euphoria and/or chaos of Huddersfield at home, Leeds away, Sheffield Wednesday at home, Forest at home - but look at the games below. How strong and 'entertaining' were these performances?

Of course this is all subjective, but the only games that stick out as particularly memorable across both season openings – in a good way - under Farke were the Bristol City away game in 20/21, and Stoke away up until Buendia’s unfortunate red card. I can however recall plenty of pretty mediocre performances with even winning matches being shaky and arguably 'lucky'. Points earned with penalties (Rotherham, Middlesbrough), fortunate goals (McLean’s deflected goal at Brentford, Huddersfield away), or late winners coming after stuttering performances (Wycombe, Rotherham, Birmingham, Swansea). In narrow winning positions we also had a tendency to gift the opposition a superb chance in the final 5/10 minutes – but rarely got punished – I previously criticised Farke for not making subs early enough in these matches and causing a loss of initiative. Overall, it felt like we were still in first or second gear. Sounding familiar at all?

Just to caveat that I understand this summary is negative, but I want to try and root out some of the criticisms which were being made of the team at the time – versus the team today – as there are some similarities. I’m sure this will be backed up with a look at some old match threads and may do this later, though I certainly don’t feel like the descent was as bad as it is now. It’s a shame fans were not allowed at Carrow Road either as I wonder what the atmosphere would’ve been like through these matches – again I would wager probably not as quiet as it is today.

In 2018/19 after a mixed start with some brave performances against the top sides, the Preston and Middlesbrough games fuelled a turning point, it felt like the side matured somewhat around then – I’d say pretty comparable to the Millwall home game of this season; strong, controlled, comfortable – but more satisfying because of where the team had just came from. To be honest, 2018/19 does get a bit of a free pass as there were so many factors working against us that it feels unfair to directly compare performance levels to justify any subpar elements to this season (massive loss of players, reduced wage bill, new players brought in for a pittance, a harder run of fixtures), we were a side in massive transition from top to bottom!

I personally think our problems in the fanbase run a little deeper than just ‘Smith’s football is boring’, ‘there’s no plan on the pitch’, etc, this is about the overall direction of the club, the compounding depression of the prior two premier league seasons, the loss of Farke who oversaw our most exciting period of the century, the fall out with Webber at the end of last season, the loss of faith in ever being successful in the PL under the current ownership, and everything in between.

Expectation in the championship is higher than ever with fans wanting perfection. It is understandable to a degree, of course expectations evolve over time and we have gone from a side in complete transition on a shoestring budget in 18/19 to a team brimming with quality, strength in depth, and financial strength (for the championship). The increase in expectation is also compounded by last season. Webber has always talked of incremental improvement and building better for long term stability, but clearly unravelled somewhat after last season which was supposed to be our true arrival to the top league, the only way he will regain his reputation if we can somehow surpass 2020/21 and go back up stronger. But I don’t think we will surpass 2020/21 and it is difficult to understand how we can do better in the PL with so much reputational damage, mental scarring in our failed team of PL players and fans, and our general lack of financial competitiveness.

Last season was an existential crisis for many and fans are still coming to terms with it all. I think all of this is the real drive behind the quietness of Carrow Road, the miserable-tone of many on the board and that level of ‘so-so’ feeling for many others. I don’t think this feeling will change for the rest of the season.

For Smith, whilst I’d agree he lacks the same charisma / passion of Farke, the rapport with the fans, and the football has been patchy up to now, the real material issue behind it all is that he is the unfortunate flagbearer for a period where we are stuck in footballing ‘limbo’. Too good for this league, nowhere near good enough for the league above. That will only change when the cycle breaks and we find ourselves with a more certain direction to aim for (whether that’s aiming to get back to the top of the championship after faltering down the league, or actually being competitive in the premier league).

If we do go up this season, which I think we will, I hope that the inclusion of Attanasio in the board can be a drive for change and a better use of the transfer market, right now it's probably the most tangible thing we can look towards for a competitive attempt at premier league football. As well as (hopefully) keeping all our best players from the prior season (i.e. no Skipp or Buendia situations). A couple of things that might genuinely make things different with another attempt.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Hank shoots Skyler
Graphs double posted

[AJ 1,218]

Great thread! Nice to see those stats, I genuinely didn’t know we’re actually doing better than 20/21, at least it doesn’t feel like it for some reason. Perhaps because I think so far under Smith we’ve rarely performed well for the majority of a game, but we did under Farke eventually, perhaps not in the first 12 according to the stats above though!

I think the main difference for me personally is that whilst I acknowledge Smith is doing a good job so far, I just don’t love him. Farke had a special connection with the fans, players and generally bought passion and togetherness to the whole club. Smith isn’t doing that so it just feels a bit… flat.

[Michael Starr 519]

The key factor here is that we've yet to face the top teams like Burnley, Watford and Sheff Utd. Instead, we've played some of the weaker teams in the league, including the bottom three of Coventry, West Brom and Huddersfield.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Stats are useful but in the end just that. Comparisons are always fraught with the factors that are impossible to add in. And most of those are unknown. And ultimately mean more to the coaching staff than us.

After watching us play Cardiff first game, I honestly didn't believe, at that stage, that Morison would be sacked before Deano. But now we sit proudly in the automatic places.

But well done Hank for doing so much groundwork. The club could do with you.

[Branston Pickle 3,653]

Good analysis, but the problem with this ‘we’ve played sides from the lower half’ thing is that they weren’t necessarily there when we played them, nor will they be at the end of the season.  It is misleading in terms of their relative form at the time: for example Bristol were a real form side and I’m pretty sure were in the top six (whatever that means after, what, 7-8 games)…it just feels an unfair yardstick at an early stage in the season, where one win can see you jump 4-5 positions.

Ultimately, I think after 12 games you can generally say you’ve probably played a fair mix of sides.  Indeed, using this league position thing, the fact we’ve not played Watford is less of a factor than Swansea or QPR.  

Edited October 8, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[lake district canary 4,531]

Interesting stuff, but ultimately the crux of the matter is not the stats - it's how we feel that matters.  We (some of us, many of us?) are feeling a bit flat about things. All the excitement of the Farke era and the promotions has gone, the way Webber's stock has fallen and the way the last PL season went has affected the way we view things. We don't look to have a focussed way of playing that we did under Farke in the good days.......it's just different.

So a lot of things according to the stats are better - and we've got a strong squad - so it is to be hoped that we start to look better on the pitch as the season progresses and then we might feel better about it. It was probably always going to be a bit like this unless we had got in another charismatic leader in the Farke mould....a Knutsen or another big character.

Smith is just a bit ordinary looking and sounding in comparison - not his fault, it's just the way he is - a good man and experienced in his job - his day will come if we are promoted and then do better in the PL the following season - but his main problem for some/many fans is that he is not Farke or someone similar.

The other thing I think is that I always thought that under Farke, the best was yet to come - that he would always develop what he had into something better - as in 17/18, as in 18/19, as we started to do until lockdown in 19/20, as he did in 20/21 - and as (imo) he was in the process of doing last season and believe he would have made just as good a fist of staying in the PL last season as Smith did. I don't think the same with Smith - he has to show us that he can develop the squad into a strong looking cohesive unit, rather than the rather mixed bag we have at the moment.  Good enough for top of the league, but it doesn't feel that great.

So interesting as it is to see all those stats, it's more about feeling than stats.

Edited October 8, 2022 by lake district canary

[cambridgeshire canary 6,703]

38 minutes ago, AJ said:

Great thread! Nice to see those stats, I genuinely didn’t know we’re actually doing better than 20/21, at least it doesn’t feel like it for some reason. Perhaps because I think so far under Smith we’ve rarely performed well for the majority of a game, but we did under Farke eventually, perhaps not in the first 12 according to the stats above though!

I think the main difference for me personally is that whilst I acknowledge Smith is doing a good job so far, I just don’t love him. Farke had a special connection with the fans, players and generally bought passion and togetherness to the whole club. Smith isn’t doing that so it just feels a bit… flat.

Amusing how Farke is viewed as this magical fantastic saviour who is a million times better than Smith by some on here and yet the facts are that

 

A- Smith did better in his breif time in the Prem with us than Farke did in his one and a quater seasons

B- Smith in his first season in the Championship with us at this point at the season has more points than this point in the season under Farke in Farkes two championship promotions with us

 

But of course, Smith puts his hands in his pockets, drinks tea from a mug and his football is slower so clearly Smith is the worse manager..

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

Smiths job is to win points, not make as look like 70s Brazil.

Get behind him and support his, so far successful effort to achieve the Boards Top 26 ambition.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,541]

That's a really thoughtful and insightful analysis. 

As to fan attitudes, I think you're maybe right that the negativity is fuelled by despondency for two huge faillures in the Premier League in a row. Personally, I see that in itself as a reason to just give up following the club; trying to argue against these charges of 'shapeless dross' in the face of decent results is trying to box with a shadow. There's nothing supporting the charges, which is also why you can't argue rationally with them, and what's more, no matter how well we do for the rest of the season it'll always be there and always be impossible to refute with actual facts because 'it's all opinion'. The way the stats are actually now being openly mocked by some is reminiscent of some of the most ignorant Trump supporters out there and their aversion to fact-checkers because facts are inconvenient to their basic prejudices. 

But what's worse, if it is hangover from relegation, it won't even stop at the end of a successful promotion campaign, because all of next campaign there'll be this overwhelming doom-mongering. 

And then what? Say we even do finish up surviving and establish ourselves as perennial survivors in the Premier League, it''ll only be as makeweights scrapping for mid-table positions year after year; it'll just be another form of limbo, and one where you'll be losing or drawing more weeks than you're winning. It's all pointless. 

When the fun stops, stop. 

Edited October 8, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Mason 47 1,376]

Great post.

Interesting also in this perspective of 'we haven't played anyone good yet'-

In the two comparison seasons, looking at our results against the eventual top 6, the first Farke seasons saw us take just 12 from 30 available points. 20/21 was actually worse, 3 wins (all at home 1-0) and 2 draws for 11 points from 30. In the first 12 games for both, we played 6 of these fixtures and garnered just 2 points.

Of course as a metric it's inherently flawed as form ebbs and flows throughout the season- for example, I don't think Reading or QPR are genuine top 6 contenders despite current positions. But I think it'll be very interesting to see where we're at after the week of doom when some of the perceptual 'top 6' fixtures have played out (and all of them away)

Edited October 8, 2022 by Mason 47

[hogesar 9,657]

I think its certainly a modern fan problem. That and the bordering on weird Farke attachment some still have.

Smith is delivering. We have no divine right to be at the top of the Championship but a % of our fanbase think we are bigger than we are and that promotion is a forgone conclusion easily achieved.

 

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,891]

1 hour ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I personally think our problems in the fanbase run a little deeper than just ‘Smith’s football is boring’, ‘there’s no plan on the pitch’, etc, this is about the overall direction of the club, the compounding depression of the prior two premier league seasons, the loss of Farke who oversaw our most exciting period of the century, the fall out with Webber at the end of last season, the loss of faith in ever being successful in the PL under the current ownership, and everything in between.

An excellent, thoughtful post Hank - it'll never catch on.

For me, the above paragraph sums it up perfectly. It's not one single thing,  rather it's a combination of factors that have chipped away at the fan's enthusiasm, dare I say faith, in our ability to become more than we currently are.

I loved Farke, but knew that his time had come to an end. I think whoever we got after him would be suffering from the same 'hangover' type fatigue that is hovering over the heads of many a supporter. 

OTBC

[Ian 1,129]

1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

Good analysis, but the problem with this ‘we’ve played sides from the lower half’ thing is that they weren’t necessarily there when we played them, nor will they be at the end of the season.  It is misleading in terms of their relative form at the time: for example Bristol were a real form side and I’m pretty sure were in the top six (whatever that means after, what, 7-8 games)…it just feels an unfair yardstick at an early stage in the season, where one win can see you jump 4-5 positions.  

Interesting point - wonder if this is the average CURRENT league position of teams we have played, or if it is the average league position of teams when we played them?

Obviously this has little meaning early on in the season, but if it is their current league position rather than when we played them, it has even less IMO.

[ricardo 7,384]

Some interesting and well presented statistics.

The difficulty of course in the comparisons is that the 2018/19 season mostly unexpected and you could say it was a team more or less assembled from scratch. Whereas 20/21 and this season had the advantage of  Premiership money to strengthen the side. We were sixth after 12 games in the 2018/19 season which was probably a surprise to many whereas in 20/21 and now we are already in the auto spots where I suggest most people would expect to find us.

2018/19 is certainly the greater material achievement by virtue of the fact that it came out of the blue, so to speak. Farke was expected to get us up in 20/21 which he duly did and this year Smith faces a similar situation and is on course to deliver.

As far as I am concerened, whether you prefer Farke to Smith or vice versa, is neither here nor there. Farke is already a legend and Smith may well become one. He is a pragmatic and respected manager who has been given the resources to get out of this league and I expect him to do just that.

Whether he will ever have an affinity to the fans and be loved like Farke is of course another matter entirely.

 

 

[Robert N. LiM 4,329]

Superb post, @Hank shoots Skyler, which might as well close down this forum. You've said almost everything that needs saying. 

[KeiranShikari 1,410]

14 minutes ago, ricardo said:

He is a pragmatic

Don't let him hear you say that.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

2 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Good analysis, but the problem with this ‘we’ve played sides from the lower half’ thing is that they weren’t necessarily there when we played them, nor will they be at the end of the season.  It is misleading in terms of their relative form at the time: for example Bristol were a real form side and I’m pretty sure were in the top six (whatever that means after, what, 7-8 games)…it just feels an unfair yardstick at an early stage in the season, where one win can see you jump 4-5 positions.

Ultimately, I think after 12 games you can generally say you’ve probably played a fair mix of sides.  Indeed, using this league position thing, the fact we’ve not played Watford is less of a factor than Swansea or QPR.  

Yeah I did consider this. Felt that it’s a bit of swings and roundabouts though, yes Bristol City were in good good form but there’s just as much chance of a team being in bad form - or struggling with injuries etc. It probably evens out over 12 games. 

26 minutes ago, Ian said:

Interesting point - wonder if this is the average CURRENT league position of teams we have played, or if it is the average league position of teams when we played them?

Obviously this has little meaning early on in the season, but if it is their current league position rather than when we played them, it has even less IMO.

You’re right there is some inconsistency here, I did want to qualify everything I’d used in the graphs for clarity but ended up being pestered to leave the laptop so was somewhat rushed in the end! I used current standings for this season but the final standings for 20/21 and 22/23 as they were easier to get hold of. Could be worth a double check as I’m sure there’s probably some differences for how those teams were performing after 12 games. But as with the above point from BP, it probably just about evens out overall.

[nutty nigel 7,528]

So during those games in 2018/19 there were more unhappy fans than there are now. Can I prove that? Obviously not but there was booing from all sides of the ground during games when we passed the ball backwards or across the back five and I haven't heard that this time. Krul wasn't liked and there was massive criticism for playing him in front of many fans first choice Remi Matthews. Everything the club did was roundly criticised or laughed at Remember the pink dressing room?

There was plenty else besides but ultimately we won the league with all those things and all was forgiven, forgotten and erased from memories.

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2022 by nutty nigel

[Branston Pickle 3,653]

4 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Yeah I did consider this. Felt that it’s a bit of swings and roundabouts though, yes Bristol City were in good good form but there’s just as much chance of a team being in bad form - or struggling with injuries etc. It probably evens out over 12 games. 

You’re right there is some inconsistency here, I did want to qualify everything I’d used in the graphs for clarity but ended up being pestered to leave the laptop so was somewhat rushed in the end! I used current standings for this season but the final standings for 20/21 and 22/23 as they were easier to get hold of. Could be worth a double check as I’m sure there’s probably some differences for how those teams were performing after 12 games. But as with the above point from BP, it probably just about evens out overall.

It wasn’t meant as a criticism, more a comment - comparison is always going to be difficult.  It’s probable that the relative strength of the league varies from one season to the next too, but is nigh-on impossible to tell (plenty have been telling us recently that the standard is poor this year so as to explain why we’re where we are).

[Branston Pickle 3,653]

8 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

So during those games in 2018/19 there were more unhappy fans than there are now. Can I prove that? Obviously not but there was booing from all sides of the ground during games when we passed the ball backwards or across the back five and I haven't heard that this time. Krul wasn't liked and there was massive criticism for playing him in front of many fans first choice Remi Matthews. Everything the club did was roundly criticised or laughed at Remember the pink dressing room?

There was plenty else besides but ultimately we won the league with all those things and all was forgiven, forgotten and erased from memories.

 

 

 

I seem to recall the Stoke game, a game that we lost 1-0 with a Klose own goal, being the one where fans suddenly seemed to ‘get’ it.   Oddly enough if it was this weekend in 2018 (6th October).

[ricardo 7,384]

Indeed, it was the first time ive ever heard the crowd applaud the team after a defeat. We were vastly superior but just couldn't  score that day. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

12 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

It wasn’t meant as a criticism, more a comment - comparison is always going to be difficult.  It’s probable that the relative strength of the league varies from one season to the next too, but is nigh-on impossible to tell (plenty have been telling us recently that the standard is poor this year so as to explain why we’re where we are).

Thanks Branston - not taken as a criticism at all and it was a valid point. There’s always going to be inconsistencies wherever you draw the line in the sand. And agreed with the wider point on the strength of the leagues which is impossible to map out, it feels like the weakest it’s been at this level for some time IMO!

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Interesting stuff, but ultimately the crux of the matter is not the stats - it's how we feel that matters.  We (some of us, many of us?) are feeling a bit flat about things. All the excitement of the Farke era and the promotions has gone, the way Webber's stock has fallen and the way the last PL season went has affected the way we view things. We don't look to have a focussed way of playing that we did under Farke in the good days.......it's just different.

So a lot of things according to the stats are better - and we've got a strong squad - so it is to be hoped that we start to look better on the pitch as the season progresses and then we might feel better about it. It was probably always going to be a bit like this unless we had got in another charismatic leader in the Farke mould....a Knutsen or another big character.

Smith is just a bit ordinary looking and sounding in comparison - not his fault, it's just the way he is - a good man and experienced in his job - his day will come if we are promoted and then do better in the PL the following season - but his main problem for some/many fans is that he is not Farke or someone similar.

The other thing I think is that I always thought that under Farke, the best was yet to come - that he would always develop what he had into something better - as in 17/18, as in 18/19, as we started to do until lockdown in 19/20, as he did in 20/21 - and as (imo) he was in the process of doing last season and believe he would have made just as good a fist of staying in the PL last season as Smith did. I don't think the same with Smith - he has to show us that he can develop the squad into a strong looking cohesive unit, rather than the rather mixed bag we have at the moment.  Good enough for top of the league, but it doesn't feel that great.

So interesting as it is to see all those stats, it's more about feeling than stats.

Good post Lakey- I totally agree and I think you’re close to a lot of the points I made after I looking at stats in the beginning!

[nutty nigel 7,528]

I agree it's about feeling more than facts and stats. But probably the best barometer for that feeling is reactions live in the stadium or live match threads on here.

 

[canarybubbles 1,915]

Really excellent, thought-provoking post. Since reading it I've been asking myself, 'Why do I dislike Dean Smith?'. And judging by many of the posts on here, I'm far from alone. Often it's irrational dislike and not just questioning of his ability.

I can come up with arguments about why I do question his ability as a manager. In my opinion, except for the fact that Núnez and Ramsey are better than Gilmour and PLM, we have hardly improved since last season - the only difference is the quality of the opposition, so we're winning games rather than losing them. We are relying on the individual quality of our players to win games and the team is still less than the sum of the parts, which must be laid at Smith's door if I am right. Now I know many people will disagree with me about this, and that's fair enough, but I think my argument is at least a reasonable one. But it is a reason to *doubt* Smith, not to *dislike* him.

In my case, I can honestly say it is nothing to do with nostalgia for Farke. I was unsure about whether he should be sacked, and still am, but I have no illusions that Farke's was a golden era of continuously glorious football. I might romanticise 18/19 a little (who doesn't?), but I don't see much difference at all between the early stages of 20/21 and this season. I think our game management was a little better perhaps in 20/21, but it was largely a season of hard-fought, ground-out, single-goal wins (despite Huddersfield).

I have one idea I would like to put out there as a possible explanation for the antipathy towards Smith - it is a deflection of anger felt about Webber. His attitude towards the fanbase and the local media stinks, but every time the going gets tough, he removes himself from the kitchen, so we have no way of responding when he says we should go and support another team or he calls the fans 'w*nkers. The relationship between the club and the fans has come close to breaking down and the club don't seem particularly interested in trying to mend it. Smith has made himself the public face of the club, so he ends up taking the flak that Webber should take.

Just an idea.

[Robert N. LiM 4,329]

19 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Good post Lakey- I totally agree and I think you’re close to a lot of the points I made after I looking at stats in the beginning!

I think that's the politest I've ever heard someone say "read the whole post"

[Robert N. LiM 4,329]

Just now, canarybubbles said:

I have one idea I would like to put out there as a possible explanation for the antipathy towards Smith - it is a deflection of anger felt about Webber. His attitude towards the fanbase and the local media stinks, but every time the going gets tough, he removes himself from the kitchen, so we have no way of responding when he says we should go and support another team or he calls the fans 'w*nkers. The relationship between the club and the fans has come close to breaking down and the club don't seem particularly interested in trying to mend it. Smith has made himself the public face of the club, so he ends up taking the flak that Webber should take.

 

I agree that it's a deflection, but rather than anger at Webber, I think it's a transference of the frustration we feel at the idea that a club on our budget can't really rise any higher than Championship winners. At heart, a lot of people are wondering what the point of it all is, but that's a difficult feeling to confront head-on.

Or to put it another way, antipathy towards Smith *and* anger at Webber are both transference of that frustration.

 

 

[Yellow Fever 3,767]

The problem/ideology with Farkeball was simply we'll score more than you i.e. the opposition. We scored a lot and let a lot in in the Championship runs but it was exciting stuff.

In the Prem though it didn't work out so well as the teams generally were defensively much stronger/savvy and more clinical in attack. We rather let in a lot more goals than we scored - the opposite of the championship runs.

Dean is trying to sort that with the players available and so far so good. Well be better prepared next time if we get back to the EPL.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[canarybubbles 1,915]

3 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

I agree that it's a deflection, but rather than anger at Webber, I think it's a transference of the frustration we feel at the idea that a club on our budget can't really rise any higher than Championship winners. At heart, a lot of people are wondering what the point of it all is, but that's a difficult feeling to confront head-on.

Or to put it another way, antipathy towards Smith *and* anger at Webber are both transference of that frustration.

 

 

You may well be right. Purely anecdotal based on my own experience, but I don't quite have that heart-in-mouth feeling when we are leading with five minutes to go, pacing the room as I watch the stream (I live abroad). I hate to admit it, but I do care a little less

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

Smith inherited a team he a lot weaker than what Farke had at this level and he is trying to make it solid. He’s lost Tzolis (still think he will come good) & Rashica. They were replaced with two returning loanees -Hernandez and Sinani. He has inherited an out of form Cantwell and working on him getting better. Pukki is looking more leggy than 2 years ago. There doesn’t appear to be a natural right winger at the club. Hayden is the obvious DM choice and we haven’t been able to use him yet and Smith has taken a gamble on Gibbs. Nunez is an astute bit of business and Sara needs a run of games. 
 

That being said, I don’t think we will go up and the football isn’t pretty. But Farke was given a year in the champs and people should be prepared to give Smith one.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Dr Greenthumb