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The Real Buh

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7 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Like I’ve said I invite you to look at his public posting history. It’s a one man campaign against me with no reply from myself.

I don’t feel sorry for him at all. He’s back on block and he’ll continue to post at me from his squalid grief hole I’m sure. And whatever he posts will be seen as ok because he’s wcorkcanary and I’m the real Buh for everything I say will not be permitted 🤣

I know you were a genuine enthusiast for the Webber/Farke era (as was I at the time) and disappointed to see Farke go (as was I at the time), but it's not Smith's fault that Farke got sacked. 

Do you ever actually listen to what Smith has to say post interview? For the most part, he's picking holes in the performances himself and looking for improvements. He has had major injury problems in two key departments, but still managed to keep the points coming in spite of that. Seriously, just give the guy a break and stop trying to create toxicity for the sake of it. 

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27 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Like I’ve said I invite you to look at his public posting history. It’s a one man campaign against me with no reply from myself.

I don’t feel sorry for him at all. He’s back on block and he’ll continue to post at me from his squalid grief hole I’m sure. And whatever he posts will be seen as ok because he’s wcorkcanary and I’m the real Buh for everything I say will not be permitted 🤣

Have you ever considered that it might be because of the divisive drivel you post ? Which is why i poke at you in the first place. Its really quite simple.  What you give is what get.  

The End, i hope.

Edited by wcorkcanary

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For some reason I feel that our game is as slow, bad and boring as it was in EPL and we only get points due to occasions where some individual player steps up and shows glimpse of quality.

Been watching most matches for last four seasons either through TV or streaming services and was really waiting this season to see us be able to perform and play good football. While watching Reading game it just crawled in my mind that maybe it would actually be time to cancel my Canaries TV subscription as watching recent matches is nearly as painful as the last season. 

 

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54 minutes ago, hogesar said:

We didnt press high under Farke. Very very rarely. It was not a tactic of his and actually explained it wasn't in one of his interviews. That suggests you see stuff that isn't there

Pretty desperate stuff.

"“Our counter-pressing, even in the second half when it was clear we would win the game, was spot on and focused. Every player was just thinking about the team and willing to invest with intensity, then your class can shine and ours was a lot today.

My lads delivered it in possession but also with great intensity against the ball so it was a pretty all-round performance." - Farke, on Norwich

"He always delivers an unbelievable workload and he is thinking about the team with his pressing." - Farke, on Pukki

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1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I know you were a genuine enthusiast for the Webber/Farke era (as was I at the time) and disappointed to see Farke go (as was I at the time), but it's not Smith's fault that Farke got sacked. 

Do you ever actually listen to what Smith has to say post interview? For the most part, he's picking holes in the performances himself and looking for improvements. He has had major injury problems in two key departments, but still managed to keep the points coming in spite of that. Seriously, just give the guy a break and stop trying to create toxicity for the sake of it. 

This isn’t about Farke. I never, ever mention the guy. He’s gone. History. My issue is with Dean Smiths awful brand of football and the way the leadership at this club works.

It isn’t acceptable, in the slightest, that given everything that happened last season Stuart Webber is still employed here. It just isn’t.

I can see the iceberg and I’m just supposed to say nothing? Because the nibbles and complimentary champagne are good right now?

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1 hour ago, The Real Buh said:

This isn’t about Farke. I never, ever mention the guy. He’s gone. History. My issue is with Dean Smiths awful brand of football and the way the leadership at this club works.

It isn’t acceptable, in the slightest, that given everything that happened last season Stuart Webber is still employed here. It just isn’t.

I can see the iceberg and I’m just supposed to say nothing? Because the nibbles and complimentary champagne are good right now?

This is rebuilding time, not finished product time, and he's doing a nice job of simultaneously rebuilding and getting enough points for another stab at the Premier League next time. We have 7 months more to work on cohesion of the squad before the Premier League's an issue, 7 more months to try different things with different players so the club can fully understand how to get the best out of the players and complement them in the next transfer window. 

The squads playing and fighting for points and doing a good job of it. We're joint on points at the top of the table. The past is the past and things are on track for another go at the Premier League with a different manager who has promoted a club and secured them in the Premier League before. And don't bother with your stupid 'yeah buts' as to why it won't work because I'm not f**king interested. 

You all take for granted that it's so easy to just get promoted again, just because we've done it two times on the trot already, but news flash, no other club is doing that. But you know, sack the manager on a 9 game unbeaten run while even on points with first place, because it's all not 'pretty' enough for some people. Jesus wept. Give the squad ballet lessons or something and have them do Swan Lake at half time. 

Last season's gone. You idiots who just want to change backroom personnel all the time and have the club flailing aimlessly like all the other lost causes in the Championship drive me up the wall. Fantasy f**king HR specialists. 

In fact, f**k it, I think you can go on my ignore list, idiot. 

 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie
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20 hours ago, kirku said:

What's our identity?

Grind it out!

On other threads we have concluded the back 4 are never to cross the half way line until they get the nod (be it for corners, free kicks or for the full backs when we are pushing for a winner - current style is never go behind)! 

The midfield 3 are to hold position at all times behind the front 3.  

The front 3 are not allowed to move out of their lengthways channels. 

In summary, no real fluidity but force the opposition to make a mistake and pounce. Preparation for another glorious return to the EPL.

Sound right?

Edited by shefcanary
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6 hours ago, shefcanary said:

 In summary, no real fluidity but force the opposition to make a mistake and pounce. Preparation for another glorious return to the EPL.

Sound right?

To be fair, this is the best synopsis I've seen so far. Little wonder many haven't taken to him. Can't see it working in the Prem but we can worry about that when it happens 👍

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On 05/10/2022 at 20:05, The Real Buh said:

This isn’t about Farke. I never, ever mention the guy. He’s gone. History. My issue is with Dean Smiths awful brand of football and the way the leadership at this club works.

It isn’t acceptable, in the slightest, that given everything that happened last season Stuart Webber is still employed here. It just isn’t.

I can see the iceberg and I’m just supposed to say nothing? Because the nibbles and complimentary champagne are good right now?

This 100%

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On 05/10/2022 at 19:31, kirku said:

Pretty desperate stuff.

"“Our counter-pressing, even in the second half when it was clear we would win the game, was spot on and focused. Every player was just thinking about the team and willing to invest with intensity, then your class can shine and ours was a lot today.

My lads delivered it in possession but also with great intensity against the ball so it was a pretty all-round performance." - Farke, on Norwich

"He always delivers an unbelievable workload and he is thinking about the team with his pressing." - Farke, on Pukki

It isn't desperate it is true- we were never a high press team under Farke, a few random quotes don't change that.

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7 minutes ago, king canary said:

It isn't desperate it is true- we were never a high press team under Farke, a few random quotes don't change that.

They're quotes from Farke himself about our pressing?

Perhaps you prefer the views of others, instead:

"Farke is keen to keep to their high pressing style of play that reaped dividends last year, but any deficiencies are going to be exposed time and again at the highest level."

"He gave the team a new identity and consistently implemented his idea of a 4-2-3-1 system with intensive, high pressing – even though his debut season ended in 14th place in the second English division."

"Despite wowing the Championship with their high-pressing football, Norwich struggled to adapt to the rigors of the top flight"

"Pukki brings more than just goals to Norwich his relentless high press is a nightmare for defenders"

https://youtu.be/KTCmQ6ma4Hk

Edited by kirku

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14 minutes ago, kirku said:

They're quotes from Farke himself about our pressing?

Perhaps you prefer the views of others, instead:

"Farke is keen to keep to their high pressing style of play that reaped dividends last year, but any deficiencies are going to be exposed time and again at the highest level."

"He gave the team a new identity and consistently implemented his idea of a 4-2-3-1 system with intensive, high pressing – even though his debut season ended in 14th place in the second English division."

"Despite wowing the Championship with their high-pressing football, Norwich struggled to adapt to the rigors of the top flight"

"Pukki brings more than just goals to Norwich his relentless high press is a nightmare for defenders"

https://youtu.be/KTCmQ6ma4Hk

I'd suggest those views are wrong.

The idea we played 'intensive high pressing' in his debut season is just laughable. We were about the most static a team can be.

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2 minutes ago, king canary said:

I'd suggest those views are wrong.

The idea we played 'intensive high pressing' in his debut season is just laughable. We were about the most static a team can be.

So, on the one hand, we've got:

  • the coach himself
  • a striker widely praised for his pressing
  • a RW with the highest tackles per game in the team
  • a slew of pundits
  • quotes from tactical analysis
  • a video from probably the most credible sports journalism site in the world

And, on the other, saying "no":

Is that a fair summary?

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1 minute ago, kirku said:

So, on the one hand, we've got:

  • the coach himself
  • a striker widely praised for his pressing
  • a RW with the highest tackles per game in the team
  • a slew of pundits
  • quotes from tactical analysis
  • a video from probably the most credible sports journalism site in the world

And, on the other, saying "no":

Is that a fair summary?

No.

Here is a quote from a Michael Bailey article backed up by stats post Smith's first game in charge...

Norwich began the weekend as the worst pressing team in any of Europe’s top-five leagues; meaning they won possession within five seconds of applying pressure to an opponent with the ball just 24 per cent of the time.

On the evidence of the second half at Carrow Road, that figure will improve if the players’ attitude and energy sustains beyond a few weeks.

Using pressures per defensive action (PPDA), Norwich pressed in the second half at twice the intensity of the first. Only the second half at home to Watford featured a more intense press this season. That game saw Norwich turn a 1-1 half-time score into a 3-1 defeat. This time, it came with much greater defensive solidity.

In fact, only four halves of Premier League football from Norwich in either 2019-20 or 2021-22 have featured a more intense press than the second half against Southampton. Two of those were second halves, three of them ended in defeat and the other a draw. Those against Aston Villa were also against Dean Smith.

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Also you can find pressing stats for the Premier League at least here- https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/2021-2022/defense/2021-2022-Premier-League-Stats

Last season we had the 3rd most total pressures but the 12th most in the attacking 3rd.

The season where we were managed by Farke all season we had the 4th most total pressures but the 4th least in the attacking 3rd and by far the most in the defensive 3rd.

Hardly an indication of relentless high pressing. 

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22 minutes ago, kirku said:

So, on the one hand, we've got:

  • the coach himself
  • a striker widely praised for his pressing
  • a RW with the highest tackles per game in the team
  • a slew of pundits
  • quotes from tactical analysis
  • a video from probably the most credible sports journalism site in the world

And, on the other, saying "no":

Is that a fair summary?

King has done a good job of providing you with research above but all you had to do was use your eyes when watching us that high intensity counter-pressing wasn't generally part of Farke's game plan. It didn't need to be at Championship level because we had such a high % of the ball under him anyway. The problem is it then cost us at Premier League level in my opinion.

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20 minutes ago, king canary said:

Hardly an indication of relentless high pressing. 

You're mixing up implementation with intent. 

That we had so many pressures in the defensive third is a clear indication of what we all know - the players weren't good enough to implement his system in the PL.

We can't say Farke was "against pressing" but we can say that it wasn't effective in the PL.

 

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8 minutes ago, kirku said:

You're mixing up implementation with intent. 

That we had so many pressures in the defensive third is a clear indication of what we all know - the players weren't good enough to implement his system in the PL.

We can't say Farke was "against pressing" but we can say that it wasn't effective in the PL.

 

I don't think so- the stat is measuring the attempts to press, not the success rate (although that is what Bailey referenced in his article). There is a seperate stat for success. If we were trying but failing to press in the final 3rd it would still show in the stats- instead it shows we just didn't really try to.

This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine as when Farke joined there were loads of lazy comparisons to Klopp, gengenpressing and heavy metal football simply because he worked at Dortmund, when he was actually much more a pupil of Tuchel.

I'm not saying we didn't press- but using my eyes I didn't see a team with an identity of pressing high, hunting in packs to win the ball back early. If anything I often saw the opposite- when the ball was lost we were often comfortable letting the opposition carry into our half relatively uncontested. Emi was an absolute tiger when he lost the ball but he felt like the exception rather than the rule. 

I guess my overall point is if you asked me to describe the key elements of 'Farkeball' pressing wouldn't be something that springs to mind. 

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IMO, what we are seeing is pragmatism from senior management, insomuch as we are hamstrung by injuries in certain positions.  We are currently playing without a recognised holding, disruptive, ball winning CM, why we have allowed this to happen is another question, but we are, consequently I firmly believe Deano is setting the team up to ensure we can overcome this dilemma.

Potentially we have three players who could perform the aforementioned role, Hayden, Sorensen and potentially Byram.  Two are injured and one is covering at left back, so what do we do to offset the fact we will not win as many balls as we would like, we make sure the defence (in particular) stays more robust by asking the FB’s to remain in their position rather than maraud up-field.  Based on results we are succeeding, is it the most exciting to watch, possibly not.

Once we are able to fill the holding, disruptive, ball winning role I suspect we will see the leash loosened and a more expansive style of football.

So, in conclusion, my opinion is that we are performing very well under the circs and kudos must go to the management and the players.

Given we have averaged 2.56 points per game for the last 9 games, if this is repeated for the remainder of the season our points tally will be 116, beating the current record by 10 points and achieving some 25 points more than would likely be needed to ensure promotion.

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4 minutes ago, Ray said:

IMO, what we are seeing is pragmatism from senior management, insomuch as we are hamstrung by injuries in certain positions.  We are currently playing without a recognised holding, disruptive, ball winning CM, why we have allowed this to happen is another question, but we are, consequently I firmly believe Deano is setting the team up to ensure we can overcome this dilemma.

Potentially we have three players who could perform the aforementioned role, Hayden, Sorensen and potentially Byram.  Two are injured and one is covering at left back, so what do we do to offset the fact we will not win as many balls as we would like, we make sure the defence (in particular) stays more robust by asking the FB’s to remain in their position rather than maraud up-field.  Based on results we are succeeding, is it the most exciting to watch, possibly not.

Once we are able to fill the holding, disruptive, ball winning role I suspect we will see the leash loosened and a more expansive style of football.

So, in conclusion, my opinion is that we are performing very well under the circs and kudos must go to the management and the players.

Given we have averaged 2.56 points per game for the last 9 games, if this is repeated for the remainder of the season our points tally will be 116, beating the current record by 10 points and achieving some 25 points more than would likely be needed to ensure promotion.

the quality of dealing with a problem in a sensible way that suits the conditions that really exist, rather than following fixed theories, ideas, or rules: 

Sounds about right ✅️ 

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2 minutes ago, Ray said:

IMO, what we are seeing is pragmatism from senior management, insomuch as we are hamstrung by injuries in certain positions.  We are currently playing without a recognised holding, disruptive, ball winning CM, why we have allowed this to happen is another question, but we are, consequently I firmly believe Deano is setting the team up to ensure we can overcome this dilemma.

Potentially we have three players who could perform the aforementioned role, Hayden, Sorensen and potentially Byram.  Two are injured and one is covering at left back, so what do we do to offset the fact we will not win as many balls as we would like, we make sure the defence (in particular) stays more robust by asking the FB’s to remain in their position rather than maraud up-field.  Based on results we are succeeding, is it the most exciting to watch, possibly not.

Once we are able to fill the holding, disruptive, ball winning role I suspect we will see the leash loosened and a more expansive style of football.

So, in conclusion, my opinion is that we are performing very well under the circs and kudos must go to the management and the players.

Given we have averaged 2.56 points per game for the last 9 games, if this is repeated for the remainder of the season our points tally will be 116, beating the current record by 10 points and achieving some 25 points more than would likely be needed to ensure promotion.

Precisely what some of us have been saying (though it’s somewhat unlikely we’ll approach anywhere near 116 pts!).  

My only real point all along has been that it’s extremely harsh to judge this season to-date when you consider the injuries..it’s surely how you manage that counts and we’re still managing to get results.  That somehow appears to make me a Militant Smith supporter.

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Furthermore, only 3 teams have conceded less than us and one of those only one less and have also played one game less, and we have the second best goal difference in the league, pretty good for a team with no CM or LB.

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17 minutes ago, Ray said:

IMO, what we are seeing is pragmatism from senior management, insomuch as we are hamstrung by injuries in certain positions.  We are currently playing without a recognised holding, disruptive, ball winning CM, why we have allowed this to happen is another question, but we are, consequently I firmly believe Deano is setting the team up to ensure we can overcome this dilemma.

Potentially we have three players who could perform the aforementioned role, Hayden, Sorensen and potentially Byram.  Two are injured and one is covering at left back, so what do we do to offset the fact we will not win as many balls as we would like, we make sure the defence (in particular) stays more robust by asking the FB’s to remain in their position rather than maraud up-field.  Based on results we are succeeding, is it the most exciting to watch, possibly not.

Once we are able to fill the holding, disruptive, ball winning role I suspect we will see the leash loosened and a more expansive style of football.

So, in conclusion, my opinion is that we are performing very well under the circs and kudos must go to the management and the players.

Given we have averaged 2.56 points per game for the last 9 games, if this is repeated for the remainder of the season our points tally will be 116, beating the current record by 10 points and achieving some 25 points more than would likely be needed to ensure promotion.

Good post. Just to further your point, we also had to bring Byram in as soon as he was fit and he's played several games in quick succession - and the energy required by fullbacks is huge. On top of that, he's right footed and not going to offer genuine width. That side of our team is defensively good but it's not going to be anywhere near as dangerous offensively as if we had both McCallum and Dimi fit.

Then your midfield point can be enhanced further by us not being able to even rotate. Mclean and Nunez have been our only two midfielders for several games. In the championship that's hard work - and I think we saw Nunez poor attempt to defend the Reading goal which could quite easily be fatigue - mental and / or physical. The reality is we've not had the option to bench him or sub him early.

Gibbs back gives us a little more play-room but not a huge amount. I don't particularly rate Sorensen but he's better than no option at all!

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7 hours ago, king canary said:

I don't think so- the stat is measuring the attempts to press, not the success rate (although that is what Bailey referenced in his article). There is a seperate stat for success. If we were trying but failing to press in the final 3rd it would still show in the stats- instead it shows we just didn't really try to.

This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine as when Farke joined there were loads of lazy comparisons to Klopp, gengenpressing and heavy metal football simply because he worked at Dortmund, when he was actually much more a pupil of Tuchel.

I'm not saying we didn't press- but using my eyes I didn't see a team with an identity of pressing high, hunting in packs to win the ball back early. If anything I often saw the opposite- when the ball was lost we were often comfortable letting the opposition carry into our half relatively uncontested. Emi was an absolute tiger when he lost the ball but he felt like the exception rather than the rule. 

I guess my overall point is if you asked me to describe the key elements of 'Farkeball' pressing wouldn't be something that springs to mind. 

A fair and balanced view.

We certainly did press, and to say that Farke was "against pressing" makes no sense, but it also wasn't the rabid type of high pressing that Klopp employed, for sure.

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2 hours ago, kirku said:

A fair and balanced view.

We certainly did press, and to say that Farke was "against pressing" makes no sense, but it also wasn't the rabid type of high pressing that Klopp employed, for sure.

If he wasn't against pressing high he would have tactically drilled it but the attempted press stat shows we didn't do that. Which was my overall point. Its something Smith is clearly working on. After 3 years of not really doing it, it'll take some time but the energy of the likes of Sargent and Gibbs should help.

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