Rip pound sterling

[Rock The Boat 1,323]

2 hours ago, sonyc said:

Gross misconduct in public office? Reckless behaviour?

Investment bankers are reporting that yesterday was as close as it gets to having a systemic breakdown in pensions funds and people's savings ruined. Apparently a very worrying day for many.

Though, it's not over yet perhaps 

Incredibly tone deaf response by Truss in her local radio 'appearances' this morning. Didn't even hear what her favourite record was or favourite colour!

What is this reckless behaviour of which you speak? Perhaps you mean the massive injection of printed money that's gone into the worlds money supply for the past fifteen years by the world's central bankers? Or perhaps holding interest rates so low that in some cases the base rates were actually negative, thereby creating a flood of money that has worked its way into house price inflation, crypto-currencies, booming technology stocks, bond markets, football and much more. Perhaps you can ask why it is a surprise that pension funds might fall when the largest companies are the likes of Facebook and TikTok that don't actually make anything useful, while all those companies that do actually do make stuff are now located in China?

Isn't it clear that for some time the West has been spending way too much time on social media issues, way to much time on trying to oust a democratically-elected President and wasting way too much time in Covid lockdown and restrictions to the detriment of running a healthy economy that eventually the chickens have come home to roost. 

No doubt in a couple of years from now we will look back and see that Brexit will prove to be our salvation from the economic recession and ruin that is about to engulf the world, as we will no longer be tied to the EU dinosaur as it collapses under a mountain of unsecured debt, and we are able to manage our own affaires just as Truss and Kwarteng have begun to do this week. Of course, we shouldn't be surprised from the howls of anguish from the globalist mob (motto: you will own nothing and you will be happy) as they seek to attack our government from all sides.

But as free men and women, we no longer have to shadow other countries' currencies. We can determine our own policies on taxation and no longer need to fall in line with EU taxation policies. We can cut taxes, encourage businesses that actually make stuff other than likes, become highly skilled and waged and become the beacon for other countries to emulate.

[sonyc 5,481]

12 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

What is this reckless behaviour of which you speak? Perhaps you mean the massive injection of printed money that's gone into the worlds money supply for the past fifteen years by the world's central bankers? Or perhaps holding interest rates so low that in some cases the base rates were actually negative, thereby creating a flood of money that has worked its way into house price inflation, crypto-currencies, booming technology stocks, bond markets, football and much more. No, I'm referring to the massive borrowing to pay for tax cuts to the well off in the mistaken view that this act will generate growth to trickle down to the wider economy. But won't...as well you know. The recklessness has been attacked by the investment community, by fellow party members. 

 

Perhaps you can ask why it is a surprise that pension funds might fall when the largest companies are the likes of Facebook and TikTok that don't actually make anything useful, while all those companies that do actually do make stuff are now located in China?

Isn't it clear that for some time the West has been spending way too much time on social media issues, way to much time on trying to oust a democratically-elected President and wasting way too much time in Covid lockdown and restrictions to the detriment of running a healthy economy that eventually the chickens have come home to roost. No, it is not "clear". Lockdowns were not only used as a measure pre-vaccination in the West. Far from it in fact. I don't wish to comment on your inference that Trump was electorally ousted. He lost the election.

No doubt there is huge doubt I believe in a couple of years from now we will look back and see that Brexit will prove to be our salvation from the economic recession and ruin that is about to engulf the world, as we will no longer be tied to the EU dinosaur as it collapses under a mountain of unsecured debt, the EU does face an economic reckoning and we are able to manage our own affaires just as Truss and Kwarteng have begun to do this week 'Manage' is an interesting word! Of course, we shouldn't be surprised from the howls of anguish from the globalist mob Ah yes, the illiberal leftist fascists - which includes anyone from the left of centre but also bankers, the whole of the media etc - the people who make comments underneath Unherd articles - because its the left who have ruined the world - not 12 years of appalling Tory governments who have acted immorally and not in the best interests of the whole nation but a select few(motto: you will own nothing and you will be happy) as they seek to attack our government from all sides.

But as free men and women, we no longer have to shadow other countries' currencies. We can determine our own policies on taxation and no longer need to fall in line with EU taxation policies. We can cut taxes, encourage businesses that actually make stuff other than likes I'm going to agree with you here - would be very positive to really invest again in British industry, become highly skilled and waged as above - agree and become the beacon for other countries to emulate.This last paragraph just demonstrates your Brexit interests and views and is a gallant defence I will give you that - but we are ideologically polar opposites. I see the EU very differently and not just as an economic vehicle.

 

[horsefly 4,273]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

What is this reckless behaviour of which you speak? Perhaps you mean the massive injection of printed money that's gone into the worlds money supply for the past fifteen years by the world's central bankers? Or perhaps holding interest rates so low that in some cases the base rates were actually negative, thereby creating a flood of money that has worked its way into house price inflation, crypto-currencies, booming technology stocks, bond markets, football and much more. Perhaps you can ask why it is a surprise that pension funds might fall when the largest companies are the likes of Facebook and TikTok that don't actually make anything useful, while all those companies that do actually do make stuff are now located in China?

Isn't it clear that for some time the West has been spending way too much time on social media issues, way to much time on trying to oust a democratically-elected President and wasting way too much time in Covid lockdown and restrictions to the detriment of running a healthy economy that eventually the chickens have come home to roost. 

free men and women, we no longer have to shadow other countries' currencies. We can determine our own policies on taxation and no longer need to fall in line with EU taxation policies. We can cut taxes, encourage businesses that actually make stuff other than likes, become highly skilled and waged and become the beacon for other countries to emulate.

Hahahaha! That you waste such time spouting economically illiterate tripe I can only assume you enjoy playing the village idiot. My particular favourite is:

"No doubt in a couple of years from now we will look back and see that Brexit will prove to be our salvation from the economic recession and ruin that is about to engulf the world, as we will no longer be tied to the EU dinosaur as it collapses under a mountain of unsecured debt, and we are able to manage our own affaires just as Truss and Kwarteng have begun to do this week."

The government's own departments have recognised that Brexit has cost the country at least 4% of its GDP and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. That act of self-harm already put the country on the back foot in dealing with the economic fallout from global issues. And now we are rapidly entering recession precisely BECAUSE of the utterly reckless fiscal fu*ck-up perpetrated by Truss and Kami-Kwasi of borrowing money to pay for tax cuts. Totally unnecessary "unsecured debts" that you claim to decry, and which cost the Bank of England £65bn in one day to save pension funds from collapse. Christ knows how much this clusterfu*ck will cost the country in the end. What is clear is that millions of people are now being plunged into a state of financial precariousness that will seriously affect their economic security, and physical and mental wellbeing for many years to come. The toll this act of incomprehensible lunacy will have on real people's lives is frankly a shameful ignominy that ought to prompt any decent Tory to resign the whip.

Edited September 29, 2022 by horsefly

[ricardo 7,328]

7 hours ago, Well b back said:

Any comment on this morning ?

Any comment this evening.

[ricardo 7,328]

4 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Still around 1.08. 

Ignore the noise (the £ however is now not acting like any sensible reserve currency which is why we dumped it a few years back).

Just came off the phone with broker - everybody knows which way it's going (still think parity) - happy to wait 😉

Perhaps he will be right tomorrow👍

[littleyellowbirdie 2,503]

2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

 But as free men and women, we no longer have to shadow other countries' currencies. We can determine our own policies on taxation and no longer need to fall in line with EU taxation policies. We can cut taxes, encourage businesses that actually make stuff other than likes, become highly skilled and waged and become the beacon for other countries to emulate.

What I find deliciously humorous about the response to Kwarteng's financial event is that, after many years of Conservative dogma that government mustn't interfere in markets, it turns out that when you insist on running up huge debts and deficits, the markets can very much interfere in government policy with impunity.

[Yellow Fever 3,733]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Perhaps he will be right tomorrow👍

They've be been right so far. If you want to know we are talking in a week or two. Not much has changed at the fundamental level about credibility (zero) in this government and sort of BoE rate rise expected.. I think there is some data out tomorrow by the way.

[Well b back 3,180]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Any comment this evening.

Yep you clearly don’t understand Gilts and Yields ?

Yesterday The BOE had to inject £65 billion just to hold up the £ to save Pension funds and at least 1 bank from going under. Yesterday you commented on 3 things gilts the FTSE and the pound, today you are mentioning just one thing which the BOE are underpinning the pound, why stop mentioning especially the FTSE ?

The BOE have managed to stabilise the pound, however our yield figure is 4.2 % Germany as an example is 2%.

We are blaming Putin, every other country, outside England is blaming, Truss, Kasi, and England, even the Chinese and Russians.

I am happy to listen to any logical reason why borrowing 195 billion without any evidence it can be repaid, is economically sensible, but I haven’t heard any yet. If you think Truss has it right, I hope you are right, however as this is my children’s and grandchildren future at stake, I fear listening to her interviews this morning, the silence was deafening.
The pound is now at 1.11 ( still considerably down on last Friday ). I wonder where it would have been had the BOE not intervened to bail out. 
When are you expecting our Yields to drop ? And are you expecting interest rates to remain low ? 

[Indy 3,283]

3 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Yep you clearly don’t understand Gilts and Yields ?

Yesterday The BOE had to inject £65 billion just to hold up the £ to save Pension funds and at least 1 bank from going under. Yesterday you commented on 3 things gilts the FTSE and the pound, today you are mentioning just one thing which the BOE are underpinning the pound, why stop mentioning especially the FTSE ?

The BOE have managed to stabilise the pound, however our yield figure is 4.2 % Germany as an example is 2%.

We are blaming Putin, every other country, outside England is blaming, Truss, Kasi, and England, even the Chinese and Russians.

I am happy to listen to any logical reason why borrowing 195 billion without any evidence it can be repaid, is economically sensible, but I haven’t heard any yet. If you think Truss has it right, I hope you are right, however as this is my children’s and grandchildren future at stake, I fear listening to her interviews this morning, the silence was deafening.
The pound is now at 1.11 ( still considerably down on last Friday ). I wonder where it would have been had the BOE not intervened to bail out. 
When are you expecting our Yields to drop ? And are you expecting interest rates to remain low ? 

Not only our children’s future but our retirement too! My pensions taking a mighty hit, I’ve moved what I can to a safe pot, but the rest is in long term pots open to big changes! I’ve got an appointment with my pension advisor this month.

[Well b back 3,180]

Just now, Indy said:

Not only our children’s future but our retirement too! My pensions taking a mighty hit, I’ve moved what I can to a safe pot, but the rest is in long term pots open to big changes! I’ve got an appointment with my pension advisor this month.

I actually used the deregulation by the Tories to put my fund into cash rather than an annuity when I retired, so I can see the losses on a daily basis. Remember as well they deregulated lenders having to ensure people could repay if rates increased to 5%. They got rid of that ‘ to move the housing markets ‘. Hopefully things will improve and I pray lots of those current home owners won’t lose their houses, because of that said regulation. It is now being talked about that to get a mortgage you are going to have to prove repayments at a rate of somewhere between 7 and 10%. Back to square one maybe ?

[canarydan23 4,060]

On 28/09/2022 at 18:05, ricardo said:

So after all the fun and games, ftse and quid up on the day.

Rum old do.

How's the FTSE today?

 

Oops.

[Barbe bleu 809]

1 minute ago, canarydan23 said:

How's the FTSE today?

 

Oops.

You do know ricardo is winding you all up right?

I dont suppose he is in the least bit interested in these sort of  changes but when he sees a  chart go 'this way' when everyone else wanted it to go 'that way' his eyes light up and a little grin appears.

 

[canarydan23 4,060]

2 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

You do know ricardo is winding you all up right?

I dont suppose he is in the least bit interested in these sort of  changes but when he sees a  chart go 'this way' when everyone else wanted it to go 'that way' his eyes light up and a little grin appears.

 

You overestimate him.

And unless you're one of the dying breed that is a UK-based exporter who manufactures items made almost entirely from domestically-produced goods, I don't think anyone wants to see the chart go the way it has and likely will.

[ricardo 7,328]

23 minutes ago, Well b back said:

 

When are you expecting our Yields to drop ? And are you expecting interest rates to remain low ? 

Interest rates won't remain low, those days are gone for everyone. We have just lived through a twenty year period that is the best it's going to get. The Soviet Union collapsed putting a mass of commodities on the market at cheap prices. A billion Chinese workers entered the world markets and kept production costs at rock bottom. A huge population of baby boomers now have their prime consumption age behind them. In most of the advanced world populations are ageing or are in advanced decline. The future won't  be like the immediate past.

 

[ricardo 7,328]

8 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

You do know ricardo is winding you all up right?

I dont suppose he is in the least bit interested in these sort of  changes but when he sees a  chart go 'this way' when everyone else wanted it to go 'that way' his eyes light up and a little grin appears.

 

😆 

 

[ricardo 7,328]

6 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

You overestimate him.

And unless you're one of the dying breed that is a UK-based exporter who manufactures items made almost entirely from domestically-produced goods, I don't think anyone wants to see the chart go the way it has and likely will.

Stock market prices go up and down everywhere.

Nasdaq down over 3 percent just now.

[1902 1,167]

This however is some lead, it's an outlier given Survation have Labour at a paltry +21 points... But still.

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by 1902

[canarydan23 4,060]

31 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Stock market prices go up and down everywhere.

Nasdaq down over 3 percent just now.

Do they really? How insightful!

Are you curious as to why it happens to have gone down here in particular, to a level so low the only times it's been lower in the past 5 years have been because of a national lockdown or a global stock market crash?

[Barbe bleu 809]

46 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

 I don't think anyone wants to see the chart go the way it has and likely will.

I used to think that, but then I came onto the pink un boards. Whether it's football or non football some guys on here are never happier than when it's all going wrong.

[Barbe bleu 809]

17 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

 

Are you curious as to why it happens to have gone down here in particular, to a level so low the only times it's been lower in the past 5 years have been because of a national lockdown or a global stock market crash?

I'm sure he's curious, but more bothered about stirring your pot.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Barbe bleu

[ricardo 7,328]

15 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Do they really? How insightful!

Are you curious as to why it happens to have gone down here in particular, to a level so low the only times it's been lower in the past 5 years have been because of a national lockdown or a global stock market crash?

Have a look at the global stockmarket movement this year

FTSE down 6.8 percent

CAC (France) down 20.6 percent

DAX (Germany) down 24.6 percent.

Unpleasant facts for those who think it's just the UK.

Edited September 29, 2022 by ricardo

[canarydan23 4,060]

Just now, Barbe bleu said:

I'm sure he's curious, but more bothered about stirrung your pot.

I'm well over being annoyed by stupidity now. I think after the over-exposure caused by Brexit, I've become immune to its ability to rile.

[Barbe bleu 809]

11 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I'm well over being annoyed by stupidity now. I think after the over-exposure caused by Brexit, I've become immune to its ability to rile.

Fair enough.  Sometimes I have to remind myself that it's not an earth tremor caused by fracking but instead it's a collective pulsating of forehead veins as the excitement levels on the pink un rise up again.

I've been caught out myself on the past but like you I learnt from that. I do miss the genuine debate though.

Edited September 29, 2022 by Barbe bleu

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

14 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Have a look at the global stockmarket movement this year

FTSE down 6.8 percent

CAC (France) down 20.6 percent

DAX (Germany) down 24.6 percent.

Unpleasant facts for those who think it's just the UK.

Most of the companies in the UK aren't British

[ricardo 7,328]

32 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I used to think that, but then I came onto the pink un boards. Whether it's football or non football some guys on here are never happier than when it's all going wrong.

There will always be someone who it's going wrong for. But there are two sides to every equation.

[KernowCanary 214]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Have a look at the global stockmarket movement this year

FTSE down 6.8 percent

CAC (France) down 20.6 percent

DAX (Germany) down 24.6 percent.

Unpleasant facts for those who think it's just the UK.

Indeed and to think there is only a Wikipedia article about the crisis in this country, which makes it look like so.

Germany saw a church which is usually lit up at night suddenly no more just to save electricity.

[canarydan23 4,060]

2 hours ago, ricardo said:

Have a look at the global stockmarket movement this year

FTSE down 6.8 percent

CAC (France) down 20.6 percent

DAX (Germany) down 24.6 percent.

Unpleasant facts for those who think it's just the UK.

I'd rather be a millionaire losing 24.6% (after enjoying my wealthiest year on record) of my wealth than a pauper losing 6.8%.

[Herman 9,698]

2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

I used to think that, but then I came onto the pink un boards. Whether it's football or non football some guys on here are never happier than when it's all going wrong.

I have a great fondness of schadenfreude. The more the better.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,503]

6 minutes ago, Herman said:

I have a great fondness of schadenfreude. The more the better.

Contrary to popular belief, there is an English word for Schadenfreude: 'Eastenders'.

Edited September 29, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Well b back 3,180]

4 hours ago, ricardo said:

Stock market prices go up and down everywhere.

Nasdaq down over 3 percent just now.

Because of the Yields that you are not prepared to factor in, if you are watching Question Time because of the turmoil caused by what you are defending a lady had her fixed rate of 4.5% pulled and her new rate will be 10.5 %.

I think your arguments fall down because you are talking about 6 months, a year & 5 years, whilst what has happened to England has happened in 6 days. We have borrowed 190 billion, and as yet will not or cannot tell anybody how we are going to repay it. All these other Countries you have mentioned have not just a plan, but a credible plan approved by the markets.

All we have to do to stop this is issue the plan and if the plan does not stack up, reverse last weeks budget. If it stacks up the problem goes away, our Yields reduce to the same as all other major Countries. Our Yields have almost trebled  ( slightly better since the BOE intervention ) in 5 days, I repeat 5 days, nothing to do with Pandemics, Wars or energy but all because 2 idiots have put our borrowing upto £190 billion and cannot or will not tell the markets how they are going to repay it, and more so how much more they are going to borrow on top of this.