Rip pound sterling

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

1 minute ago, Well b back said:

Lol indeed.
We had 862 billion of reserves, would be interesting to know how much we have left

 

Sorry, I think I've missed a story here. What are we talking about? 

[Barbe bleu 814]

9 minutes ago, ricardo said:

We'll  never run out of printing ink and paper😉

Thats very 20th century.   These days people realise that money is imaginary and that you dont need to actually 'have' any. Besides which it's not paper anymore 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Barbe bleu

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

Just now, Barbe bleu said:

Thats very 20th century.   These days people realise that money is imaginary and that you dont need to actually 'have' any.

Unfortunately, this only applies to people that already have lots. 

[ricardo 7,345]

3 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Thats very 20th century.   These days people realise that money is imaginary and that you dont need to actually 'have' any. Besides which it's not paper anymore 

Very true, its a sort of plastic now, my mistake.

I just tried to imagine a million quid into my current acc but it didn't work. Perhaps you have to be C of Exc to work that trick.

[Barbe bleu 814]

15 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Very true, its a sort of plastic now, my mistake.

I just tried to imagine a million quid into my current acc but it didn't work. Perhaps you have to be C of Exc to work that trick.

It's imaginary .  But it's a shared delusion. You can't just imagine to yourself that £141.85 is as valuable as a lambourgini aventador, you have to convince the dealer too

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

5 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

It's imaginary .  But it's a shared delusion. You can't just imagine to yourself that £141.85 is as valuable as a lambourgini aventador, you have to convince the dealer too

Bingo. 

It works better with billions though, because it's all too abstract for anyone to properly comprehend. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Barbe bleu 814]

On 27/09/2022 at 12:43, Yellow Fever said:

Just been called up by my FEX broker (they know I have USD to sell). 

Did you sell ?

[Yellow Fever 3,747]

14 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Did you sell ?

No. 😉.

I can wait for parity.

[Pyro Pete 1,889]

Economists going mental over what is happening to the economy:

 

[Yellow Fever 3,747]

1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

Did you sell ?

I  get almost daily updates from several brokers. Without plagiarising their report suffice to say the 10pm missive tonight is basically that the pressure is still on to see how low the pound can go with no rate rise etc in October. The govt or Bank may well have to intervene (again). 

[ron obvious 1,499]

Might be worth comparing other currencies, e.g. the £ to euro over the last 5 years. And the dollar to euro.

Gives a bit more perspective.

 

[Well b back 3,190]

10 hours ago, ron obvious said:

Might be worth comparing other currencies, e.g. the £ to euro over the last 5 years. And the dollar to euro.

Gives a bit more perspective.

 

The pound is crashing against the EURO as well

[Well b back 3,190]

15 hours ago, ricardo said:

So after all the fun and games, ftse and quid up on the day.

Rum old do.

Any comment on this morning ?

[Van wink 2,994]

Ken, understated as ever:

'Former Chancellor Ken Clarke has taken aim at Kwasi Kwarteng's mini-Budget, saying no other Tory Government would have made such a "mistake".

Lord Clarke, who was chancellor from 1993 until 1997, suggested Liz Truss and her new Government had put at risk the Tories’ reputation for “good housekeeping”. 

We also had Mark Carney putting the boot in this morning, quite understandably so, all adding to to the fracturing of confidence, I really cant see them riding this out by burying their heads, the financial markets are after the pound and I see nothing  other than a change of policy, (however that is achieved), fighting them off.

[horsefly 4,287]

So, the BOE has had to bail out the government to the tune of a mind-blowing £65bn in order to stop pension funds collapsing, doing the very opposite of what it wanted to do by adding to inflationary pressures rather than reducing them. Yet still this morning every government spokesperson remains entirely unrepentant that its unfunded tax cuts have caused a financial sh*it-storm devastating the country's economy. The hubris of this bunch of intellectually stunted gangsters is unprecedented in the history of financial meltdowns.

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by horsefly

[ricardo 7,345]

59 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Any comment on this morning ?

Yes, all markets across Europe down around 1.5 percent and pound and Euro both down 1 percent v dollar. Many other currencies have dropped a lot more. We are seeing flight to the dollar at the moment which is not a surprise considering where the energy crisis will hit most. The US is virtually insulated from this as Biden can stop US energy exports at the stroke of a pen. We in Europe are what is technically termed fcuked.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Van wink said:

Ken, understated as ever:

'Former Chancellor Ken Clarke has taken aim at Kwasi Kwarteng's mini-Budget, saying no other Tory Government would have made such a "mistake".

Lord Clarke, who was chancellor from 1993 until 1997, suggested Liz Truss and her new Government had put at risk the Tories’ reputation for “good housekeeping”. 

We also had Mark Carney putting the boot in this morning, quite understandably so, all adding to to the fracturing of confidence, I really cant see them riding this out by burying their heads, the financial markets are after the pound and I see nothing  other than a change of policy, (however that is achieved), fighting them off.

Dear old Ken did also say he thought Quasi was a good Chancellor and a very clever man. I guess that was a hint that he may have to later course.

Why they keep asking old timers about the economy is beyond me. What can they do? We all know full well what is happening and its up to us to either believe the Government or not believe them. I don't think the vote is close at the moment.

[ricardo 7,345]

Markets extremely volatile this morning. The quid now back up on both Euro and Dollar.

[ron obvious 1,499]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

The pound is crashing against the EURO as well

 

It's not crashing. Though I'm sure you'd like it to. It's back to 2017 levels (& higher than many other periods inbetween).

[ricardo 7,345]

It's now crashing upwards.😉

[sonyc 5,491]

Quite a thing that The Economist has changed its front page (including Twitter header).

They believe her actions may have damaged her irreparably.

 

[horsefly 4,287]

22 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

 

It's not crashing. Though I'm sure you'd like it to. It's back to 2017 levels (& higher than many other periods inbetween).

Now tell those comforting words to everyone who is comparing their personal financial position now to that which they experienced in 2017. Ditto schools, hospitals, etc, etc.

[sonyc 5,491]

Gross misconduct in public office? Reckless behaviour?

Investment bankers are reporting that yesterday was as close as it gets to having a systemic breakdown in pensions funds and people's savings ruined. Apparently a very worrying day for many.

Though, it's not over yet perhaps 

Incredibly tone deaf response by Truss in her local radio 'appearances' this morning. Didn't even hear what her favourite record was or favourite colour!

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

I don't pretend to understand economics in much more than layman terms, but one thing I do remember from Black Wednesday is that the main thing that made it such a crisis was the predictability that the government would have to move to inflate the value of the pound against the actions of the speculators every time it fell; effectively this certainty made it a sure bet for the speculators. 

Kwarteng's stupid move had an immediate negative effect, but arguably a U turn immediately after such a strong negative reaction might have been the predictable reaction; by not doing so, perhaps it has kept the speculators guessing, causing them to hedge a bit, hence the modest rally we're seeing. 

Edited September 29, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 3,747]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

It's now crashing upwards.😉

Still around 1.08. 

Ignore the noise (the £ however is now not acting like any sensible reserve currency which is why we dumped it a few years back).

Just came off the phone with broker - everybody knows which way it's going (still think parity) - happy to wait 😉

[horsefly 4,287]

38 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Gross misconduct in public office? Reckless behaviour?

Investment bankers are reporting that yesterday was as close as it gets to having a systemic breakdown in pensions funds and people's savings ruined. Apparently a very worrying day for many.

Though, it's not over yet perhaps 

Incredibly tone deaf response by Truss in her local radio 'appearances' this morning. Didn't even hear what her favourite record was or favourite colour!

Clearly her favourite colour is red as she is so determined to ensure that's the colour the economy stays in.

Her car-crash performances on local radio stations were confirmation (if that were needed) that she hasn't got a bleeding clue. Looking forward to Starmer making mincemeat of her at the next PMQs ('cos there's fu*ck all else in which to take any pleasure).

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

Gross misconduct in public office? Reckless behaviour?

Both, I would have thought - although not sure that reckless behaviour is a criminal offence other than in some specific situations but Gross Misconduct in Public Office most definitely is and potentially with some very heavy penalties for those convicted of it.

[sonyc 5,491]

16 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Both, I would have thought - although not sure that reckless behaviour is a criminal offence other than in some specific situations but Gross Misconduct in Public Office most definitely is and potentially with some very heavy penalties for those convicted of it.

I was thinking more that if one was a senior employee of a company and you'd had such a high level of responsibility and lost your company so much money, the board would step in and dismiss.

And I'm not even thinking about the longer term consequences of your action, the distress, the struggles you've set in train.

To me this has been a sackable offence anyway. 

After Johnson, the bar for incompetence and what you can get away with in high public office has shifted so much.

Edited September 29, 2022 by sonyc

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

5 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I was thinking more that if one was a senior employee of a company and you'd had such a high level of responsibility and lost your company so much money, the board would step in and dismiss.

And I'm not even thinking about the longer term consequences of your action, the distress, the struggles you've set in train.

To me this has been a sackable offence anyway. 

After Johnson, the bar for incompetence and what you can get away with in high public office has shifted so much.

Yes absolutely, and of course Johnson should also have been done for Gross Misconduct in Public Office - I think someone (Cherry perhaps?) did actually have a go but as was so often the case with both Johnson's criminal and constitutional offences he was given a free pass.

Somehow I don't think the same leniency will be extended to Truss - certainly not by her own MPs anyway, a large majority of them never wanted her for PM in the first place and that was before she tanked the economy!

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

There is a relevant piece in the FT by Robert Shrimsley explaining why Brexit is central is this crisis. I cannot quote it all but this paragraph gives the gist of it:

"The markets are primarily reacting to a bad fiscal statement from Kwasi Kwarteng. But both the chancellor’s decisions and the backlash are the culmination of actions and attitudes that all spring from Brexit absolutism; from lost market access, continued confrontations with the EU, overhyped trade deals that add little to GDP, the sustained assault on British institutions and prime minister Liz Truss’s onslaught on economic orthodoxy. Investors have got the message. Britain is not the bet it once was."