Talking about Farkeball..

[Petriix 2,834]

20 minutes ago, chicken said:

Because you haven't put forward anything but bias drivel.

If you are going to share a balanced view, it wouldn't look anything like that would it? You gloss over so much and just bang on about Farke like he was some sort of messiah.

For example, you fail to mention in our last championship campaign we had Skipp and Buendia. The latter being an incredibly gifted footballer that was incredibly key to Farke's success. Some people even go so far as try to argue that we could have stayed up last season if we had kept him.

Dean Smith is getting better results without that calibre of player in our squad - yet. I say yet, Buendia didn't arrive in a trail of blazing stars, though it was perhaps clear with about 1/3-1/2 a season in that we had a decent player on our hands. Nunez could yet become better than he currently is and more consistent, even if not as good as Buendia he could offer aspects that are just as key to us.

Either way, this team is clearly still finding it's way forward together. Some shaking off the demons of last season, others returning to the club and trying to prove their worth to stay and get a shot at the premier league. It's in transition. It is, undeniably, becoming tougher to beat though.

It can't possibly be a coincidence that you chose your time to create posts and comment on others after a dismal draw though. Apparently we should sack a manager who's got the best series of results in this division going back further than Farke's time here.

I guess I should also apologise on Dean's behalf that English is his first language so there aren't the lost in translation moments that have the impact of warming  you to Farke like his use of "topics" etc.

It's ridiculous and completely laughable. That's my honest reaction. You don't provide a balanced view. It's a view with the "we should never have sacked Farke" skew. In other words, Smith is never going to be good enough for you because he's not Farke.  

There is so much drivel in this it's hard to know where to start. I've provided some reasonable analysis which you've ignored. Instead you deliberately misrepresent my views to make them look ridiculous so that you can dismiss what I say.

There is a very real apathy and disconnection between the team, the management and the fans. Some of us are interested in having a grown-up conversation about it.

I was always holding fire until 10 games into the season before posting that thread. I also started a thread when we played well and beat Coventry. I'd say I was generally more positive than most about the Bristol City game.

But I struggle with the repeated attempts to play 4-3-3. I can't fathom why Cantwell was dropped. I despair every time I see McLean as our single DM.

But, whatever. My opinion doesn't fit your narrative so there's little point in trying to engage in a debate. So maybe you should just ignore my posts rather than being antagonistic. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

I'm really pleased he is doing well, but he's not our  manager any more and he's not coming back.

To be honest, the unrealistic expectations of some are just plain stupid. They want us to be playing beautiful, Liverpool style football at premier League level, and that's it. Never mind we don't have the finances to attract the level of players needed, this has to be the case.

Now we've added a further condition that the manager must be able to work a crowd like Freddie Mercury.

Thank God this stupid, self-indulgent, brattish mentality seems to be fairly restricted.

Edited September 18, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

Unless we spend over a £100m Smith won't give us a better chance of survival. 

Oh and he hasn't got us there yet. Let's see where we stand after we've played Sheff Utd, Burnley and Watford away next month.

Okay, best of three. Okay, best of five. Okay, best of seven. If only we could move the goalposts in a game as often as Smith's critics do.

[Robert N. LiM 4,241]

5 hours ago, Petriix said:

We were better than Brentford by every metric.

Out of interest, what metrics? 

[Petriix 2,834]

8 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Out of interest, what metrics? 

Things like pass accuracy, shots per game. You name it... 

[The Real Buh 3,423]

7 hours ago, astro said:

Yeah, so rational you resort to name calling and belittling when someone has a different opinion to you.
Yours, a concerned supporter x 

The guy is an idiot don’t respond to him

[Midlands Yellow 3,934]

9 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

The guy is an idiot don’t respond to him

On about yourself? 

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

5 hours ago, chicken said:

So Farke was to blame for not playing the system that worked but he shouldn't have been sacked for it?

He shouldn't have been sacked for Webber's shambolic summer transfer dealings which left us starting the EPL season with a considerably weaker squad than we had in winning the Championship (again) the season before - simple as.

[Michael Starr 519]

With better quality players, Farke would be a top head coach.

[Midlands Yellow 3,934]

11 minutes ago, Michael Starr said:

With better quality players, Farke would be a top head coach.

At Borussia Mönchengladbach maybe? 

[Nuff Said 5,089]

8 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Chroisht, you're like a stuck record Buh, have you nothing else going on in your life other than  a one man campaign of negativity towards DS. 

Judging by his first paragraph, he has heavy lunchtime drinking going on.

8 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

I’m Not one to sit in the css as no of “ oh if only Farke were still here” he was a great mdd as Agee for us, truly one of the best, but I see why he was sacked. At that exact moment again st Brentford? No, but the writing was on the wall.

Note: comebacks containing the words “who are you” will not be accepted.

[Robert N. LiM 4,241]

9 minutes ago, Petriix said:

Things like pass accuracy, shots per game. You name it... 

Cheers. Do you have a source? I was interested in @aBeesharing the xG table which had Brentford quite a way above us. And I think there was a general perception that while our possession-based style was good for dominating the Champs, Brentford's more direct, counterattacking style would be more suited to taking on superior teams in the PL. In other words, it wasn't a ridiculous decision to try to adapt our style. But that does then bet the question of why we didn't try to do it in the Champs rather than the Prem. Ironically enough, I suspect that is what Smith is trying to do now, and getting a lot of grief for his trouble.

[canarybubbles 1,915]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Okay, best of three. Okay, best of five. Okay, best of seven. If only we could move the goalposts in a game as often as Smith's critics do.

Goalposts? Here are mine.

Automatic promotion with 90+ points - great success, didn't think he had it in him. Automatic promotion - success. Play-offs 85+ points, winning at Wembley - success. Play-offs 75-85 points, winning at Wembley - success, but depends partly on performances; on probation at the start of the 23-24 season. Play-offs 85+, losing at Wembley - keeps job but on probation at the start of the 23-24 season. Play-offs 75-85 points, losing at Wembley - relative failure, sacked. Not making the play-offs - total failure, sacked. I promise I won't move these before the end of the season.

What are your goalposts?

Edited September 18, 2022 by canarybubbles

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

1 minute ago, canarybubbles said:

Goalposts? Here are mine.

Automatic promotion - success. Automatic promotion with 90+ points - great success, didn't think he had it in him. Play-offs 85+ points, winning at Wembley - success. Play-offs 75-85 points, winning at Wembley - success, but depends partly on performances; on probation at the start of the 23-24 season. Play-offs 85+, losing at Wembley - keeps job but on probation at the start of the 23-24 season. Play-offs 75-85 points, losing at Wembley - relative failure, sacked. Not making the play-offs - total failure, sacked. I promise I won't move these before the end of the season.

What are your goalposts?

I actually like these measures. I’m going to steal them 

[canarybubbles 1,915]

1 minute ago, SwearyCanary said:

I actually like these measures. I’m going to steal them 

Sorry, I moved the first couple around while you were replying - the order seemed more logical. But the content hasn't changed.

[The Real Buh 3,423]

45 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

On about yourself? 

This one as well

i made fun of the midlands and he hasn’t been able to sleep thinking about me since 

Stop thinking about me, stop responding to my every post

[Midlands Yellow 3,934]

26 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

This one as well

i made fun of the midlands and he hasn’t been able to sleep thinking about me since 

Stop thinking about me, stop responding to my every post

I’m enamoured by the midlands! Try again strange man. 

[chicken 2,604]

4 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

This was your response to someone saying, "I'm pretty certain that the change in system as well as the accompanying recruitment were driven by the director of football."

I genuinely don't see why you think it's funny. Part of the role of a DoF is to establish the 'culture' of a club so that this is preserved if the head coach changes. It's also to supervise and lead recruitment.

A change in formation isn't "a change in culture" though. Culture is also distinct from pure style. I keep seeing how we have changed our culture... I struggle to see how if I am honest.

"The Norwich Way" - if we subscribe to the club having a footballing identity, has nearly always been about possession. I would like to say slick passing as well, but Crook did that off the deck a fair bit, not a hoof, but cultured long balls. I don't think that's an issue, you can't always play it on the deck. More that we try to be considered with the ball.

I don't see Dean Smith pushing our team to play any differently in regards to culture. If anything, he has only ever stated that is what he wants them to do, only with more pace.

If anything Farke took that to an extreme, whilst it was entertaining at times, he certainly wasn't as tactically flexible as Lambert who did often switch formations, would change a team not working at half time, and had more of a 'swashbuckling' style to our culture of trying to pass the ball.

I laughed not at the director of football being responsible for ensuring some level of continuity, but at the very notion that he dictates formations. He's not the manager or head coach. I laughed the same when the suggestion was Farke had nothing to do with signings whatsoever and didn't know who would be turning up at the training ground from one day to the next. These are just, at best, misinformed ideas of how the system works. Webber won't be micromanaging the footballing staff like that. At least if he did, then that would be a massive change in culture for our football club.

Case in point is that Smith has asked for and been given players that he has had an input in bringing to the club such as Hayden, and the clear link to Ramsey. Again, if you look at his former clubs, they have shared a very similar philosophy. Developing youngsters, maintaining the identity of the club through it's football as well as how it operates in the community - passing first. All of the teams he has been at have a reputation of trying to play "good football".

It is far more of a match then some on here are willing to respect.

 

[Petriix 2,834]

1 hour ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Cheers. Do you have a source? I was interested in @aBeesharing the xG table which had Brentford quite a way above us. And I think there was a general perception that while our possession-based style was good for dominating the Champs, Brentford's more direct, counterattacking style would be more suited to taking on superior teams in the PL. In other words, it wasn't a ridiculous decision to try to adapt our style. But that does then bet the question of why we didn't try to do it in the Champs rather than the Prem. Ironically enough, I suspect that is what Smith is trying to do now, and getting a lot of grief for his trouble.

I'm not 100% sure of the accuracy, but this has us top of the xg table (select 20/21).

[chicken 2,604]

5 hours ago, Petriix said:

There is so much drivel in this it's hard to know where to start. I've provided some reasonable analysis which you've ignored. Instead you deliberately misrepresent my views to make them look ridiculous so that you can dismiss what I say.

There is a very real apathy and disconnection between the team, the management and the fans. Some of us are interested in having a grown-up conversation about it.

I was always holding fire until 10 games into the season before posting that thread. I also started a thread when we played well and beat Coventry. I'd say I was generally more positive than most about the Bristol City game.

But I struggle with the repeated attempts to play 4-3-3. I can't fathom why Cantwell was dropped. I despair every time I see McLean as our single DM.

But, whatever. My opinion doesn't fit your narrative so there's little point in trying to engage in a debate. So maybe you should just ignore my posts rather than being antagonistic. 

I don't see a disconnect between the team and the fans, nor one between the team and the management.

Hernandez, Pukki, Krul, Aarons, Hanley, Gibson, McLean, Byram haven't changed overnight, Sargent has spoken several times at how he enjoys the positive attention he gets from supporters when he is playing well and says it helps him.

The "apathy" is the fans hangover from last season. People spoke about the hangover of the players on here. How the fans feel doesn't always relate directly to what is happening on the pitch. Just as humans things outside of work can influence our concept of what is happening at work.

You can see this in the way people really are looking back at Farke's time with us as if none of them ever moaned or groaned about it. There is also a clear misunderstanding of how a director of football system works - I made another post about that, but it also ignores the explanation both Webber and Farke gave during their time together here.

IMHO, people are hung up on last season still, there isn't anything much more than that too it. The team are doing what they have during any other transition period and getting on with it. Only now we have professionals of a sufficient standard to be able to still be competitive whilst adapting to each other's games.

Back in 18-19 people didn't have the same level of expectations having seen the season before coupled with the loss of Maddison etc. In 20-21, expectations were higher and I suspect if you look back at the board during that period you would see people were complaining about form etc then too. Especially with Cantwell and Buendia missing due to off-pitch issues. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by chicken

[Norfolk Dan 308]

6 hours ago, chicken said:

It begs the question though, if we were that bad a squad, and we would have gone down no matter what, why did we not at least go with 4-2-5-1 for an incredibly tough opening set of fixtures?

A system the majority of our squad had played the season before, we embedded in and could impart knowledge of and guide new players into in what were some of the hardest games they would face? Literally nothing to lose. Instead he opted to go with a completely new formation, different roles and players looking repeatedly lost. 

Any manager who can play 4-2-5-1, I would take him or her in a flash.... 

[Pyro Pete 1,889]

I wish Daniel the best of luck.

We had some great times in the Championship.

[Robert N. LiM 4,241]

1 hour ago, Petriix said:

I'm not 100% sure of the accuracy, but this has us top of the xg table (select 20/21).

Thanks. I realise I was a bit unclear in my earlier post. The table that @aBeeshared was a league table based on xG, both for and against. So it essentially created an expected result for each game and awarded 'points' accordingly. Now there's obviously a bit of creativity involved in such a table (you have to decide what constitutes a draw, for instance) but I found it interesting anyway.

There were a couple of other warning signs as well, with the benefit of hindsight: our poor record without Emi and our poor record against the other top sides (following on from our poor record against the bottom PL sides in 19-20). 

I guess what I'm saying is that, however badly it was carried out, there were some reasons for changing the style that got us promoted. 

 

 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

11 hours ago, Petriix said:

I'm pretty certain that the change in system as well as the accompanying recruitment were driven by the director of football. 

I feel sorry for Farke both seasons in the Prem with us he was severely let down by Webber. There isn’t a manager alive that would of kept Norwich up with last seasons squad. The first season we went up under Farke was actually when investment should of came as we had a much more competitive squad in that league than we did the last time. 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,037]

17 hours ago, Coneys Knee said:

No words for this

I know. Let's forget the hundreds of millions of talent he developed for us, coz you know, he fell out with Moritz Leitner.

[Pugin 601]

12 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

Goalposts? Here are mine.

Automatic promotion with 90+ points - great success, didn't think he had it in him. Automatic promotion - success. Play-offs 85+ points, winning at Wembley - success. Play-offs 75-85 points, winning at Wembley - success, but depends partly on performances; on probation at the start of the 23-24 season. Play-offs 85+, losing at Wembley - keeps job but on probation at the start of the 23-24 season. Play-offs 75-85 points, losing at Wembley - relative failure, sacked. Not making the play-offs - total failure, sacked. I promise I won't move these before the end of the season.

What are your goalposts?

So, on this basis Daniel Farke was a 'total failure' in his first season, 2017-2018 when we finished 14th, and should have been unceremoniously sacked.

If you say so. They are your definitions.

By extension, there should be 21 managers sacked at the end of every Chsmpionship season.

It really is a puerile view of football.

[canarybubbles 1,915]

10 minutes ago, Pugin said:

So, on this basis Daniel Farke was a 'total failure' in his first season, 2017-2018 when we finished 14th, and should have been unceremoniously sacked.

If you say so. They are your definitions.

By extension, there should be 21 managers sacked at the end of every Chsmpionship season.

It really is a puerile view of football.

No, by extension 21 managers should not be sacked at the end of the season because any judgement needs to take into account the players available to the manager (in this case, Smith), the recent history of the club, the financial situation of the club, etc. For example, 75-85 points and losing in the playoffs would qualify as a great success for the manager of Blackpool and a relative failure for the managers of parachute teams.

Smith does not start from zero. Smith starts from a position of substantial privilege and that needs to be recognised.

Edited September 19, 2022 by canarybubbles

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

20 minutes ago, Pugin said:

So, on this basis Daniel Farke was a 'total failure' in his first season, 2017-2018 when we finished 14th, and should have been unceremoniously sacked.

If you say so. They are your definitions.

By extension, there should be 21 managers sacked at the end of every Chsmpionship season.

It really is a puerile view of football.

It’s his view of Norwich relative to this season based on the time Smith has had, the players and the quality of the opposition. It’s completely valid and considered. Suggesting it’s meant as a measure for all chsmpionship clubs shows that you either didn’t understand what was written or you did and pretended not to to shoehorn your point in. I think if you poll this forum you’d get a big majority that think if we finish 14th Smith should be gone. I could be wrong, but why not give it a go? 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

I don't subscribe to knee jerk sackings but if we are not in playoffs at Christmas, then I'm sorry not sorry but he should go.By that time he'll have had a full season , half in a lower division.  I'm not that impressed so far but results have been decent . Maybe a different guy can do an Alex Neil and galvanise the squad in 2nd half of season, get us playing to potential ( which we are not at the moment, I believe) .. and into a play off spot at very least. Because if not then the top 26 mission has failed....... And a whole new can of worms is opened.  

As an aside , Ajax Lost to AZ Alkmaar at the weekend, so shoite does happen sometimes, and should be dismissed as a blip, unless of course it's a trend... Then the axe must fall, whoever the manager/head coach is. 

[Justin time 182]

11 hours ago, Norfolk Dan said:

Any manager who can play 4-2-5-1, I would take him or her in a flash.... 

I think that the other teams would object to us playing 12 players.🤲✌️