Ricardo's report v W.B.A.

[ricardo 7,384]

I got the bike back in action today for a pleasant ride down to CR. There is a touch of Autumn in the air now but it was bright and sunny although the wind was a bit on the gusty side.

I expressed on an earlier thread that I was a little concerned that todays visitors might be due a change of fortune because I had watched them against Burnley and Watford and thought they should have won both those games. They are certainly a better side than their league position suggests.

City, kicking off towards the Barclay end for a change, gave Sara a long awaited start while Cantwell was demoted to the bench and in the opening five or six minutes both teams had quite long periods of possession without any end result. This was to change abruptly in the 8th minute with West Brom winning a free kick on their left and about thirty yards from goal. The kick ballooned over everybody and into the path of a completely unmarked Dara O'Shea who had the simple task of nodding in for about 6 yards.There was a lot of finger pointing in the home defence and a rather stunned silence from the crowd.

If we thought it would stir the home side into action we were badly mistaken as a sequence of slow labourious build ups, interspersed with some near fatal giving the ball away, was to be our fare for much of the half. Indeed the visitors might have had a second when from another giveaway in the 15th minute, Hanley was lucky not to get penalised when bundling into Swift in the area. The visitors seemed to be wasting time from an early stage and the crowd got annoyed, but in truth they looked comfortable and squeezed the life out of most of City's attempts to come forward.

It got really quiet as most in the crowd could see that we were second best in most departments and it took a series of corners at the midway stage before the crowd started to get into the game. There were a couple of bright moments from Ramsey who tried to get things going down the left but West Brom defended at the expense of another corner. From the cross there was a scramble and a Nunez shot from 20 yards was only narrowly wide. Ten minutes later he tee'd up from a similar range but shot miles over. I then tried to get things going with my usual pre halftime excursion to the toilets and it did at least produce an effort from Sara that hit the top of the crossbar.

At the whistle there were more than a few boo's round me and although I didn't join in I was strongly tempted to hold up a blank sheet of paper. Unfortunately I didn't have one on me.

Again I expected some sort of response as they came out for the second half and again I was to be sadly disappointed as things continued in much the same manner only slightly worse. Almost all the play was condensed in the City half as the away side continued to dominate and Button, in the West Brom goal might well have brought a newspaper and a deckchair out with him for all the work he had to do.

Hernandez came on for Sara on the hour mark and it did at least give us a bit more going forward as the little man stretched the visitors defence and a cut back gave Nunez a sighter from 25 yards which he could only scoop well over the bar. It did succeed in increasing the intensity as City broke down the right and Pukki almost slipped Sargent in only for the shot to be deflected wide. It turned out to be the prelude to an equaliser however as Hernandez's cut back cross in the 68th minute, found Pukki on the edge of the box and his powerful strke appeared to deflect off Byrom before nestling in the net. West Brom defenders appealed for handball and my son said that in his opinion it was one of those that VAR would have disallowed. It all happened so quick that I won't venture an opinion but all that counted was that the ref, after consulting his linesman, gave the goal.

From here thoughts of a victory probably began to flicker through some peoples minds but I can't say it really looked likely and would have been a travesty of justice had it occurred. Dowell and Cantwell came on in the closing stages and although Dowell had a snap shot straight at the keeper late on, most of the play was still centred in the City half of the field and it took a few stern challenges by the City rearguard to secure what looked for long periods, a very unlikely point.

Again at the end quite a lot of booing, but not from me as I was still looking for my blank sheet of paper.

MOM?

Nah, don't think so.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by ricardo

[Daz Sparks 1,152]

We were cack.

[Branston Pickle 3,656]

Most of the booing was definitely at the ref - as he was utterly crap.  Time wasting galore in the first half resulted in 1 minute of injury time, similar in the second and he gave 4 which had to be the absolute minimum.  

WBA are a decent side and have been playing far better than their results, according to a friend of mine. They were pretty good today, as they ought to be given the players they have, though we’re wasting time at every opportunity and for that alone we deserved something from the game.  Tbh them scoring so early was bad for the game as a spectacle, it was far better at 1-1.

[ricardo 7,384]

5 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Most of the booing was definitely at the ref - as he was utterly crap.  Time wasting galore in the first half resulted in 1 minute of injury time, similar in the second and he gave 4 which had to be the absolute minimum.  

WBA are a decent side and have been playing far better than their results, according to a friend of mine. They were pretty good today, as they ought to be given the players they have, though we’re wasting time at every opportunity and for that alone we deserved something from the game.  Tbh them scoring so early was bad for the game as a spectacle, it was far better at 1-1.

Indeed, Button made Tim Krul look like an amateur in the time wasting stakes. The thing is that it wasn't necessary because they were fairly dominant most of the time.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

You probably didn't see it but at a corner in the 1st half, Sarge took three thumps on the chest while waiting, and the ref was watching. After the third one, he bit and pushed the defender going for the cross. Ref gives them a free kick. Penalty could have been given three times. They bottle it every time.

Oh for a Jack Taylor.

[ricardo 7,384]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

You probably didn't see it but at a corner in the 1st half, Sarge took three thumps on the chest while waiting, and the ref was watching. After the third one, he bit and pushed the defender going for the cross. Ref gives them a free kick. Penalty could have been given three times. They bottle it every time.

Oh for a Jack Taylor.

it happened again in the second half. Defender pushed, no action. Sarge pushed back, free kick. I really don't know how they stop this sort of thing other than give loads of pens and that seems unlikely to happen.

[HertsCanary93 222]

The thing that triggered me the most about the ref was his watch gesture when WBA were time wasting... It might have had more of an impact if he'd added on more than 1 minute in the first half.

I thought he was particularly dreadful - and that includes the (imo) stonewall WBA penalty and (less sure on this one) controversial Norwich goal.

I think much of the booing was aimed at him, but there was certainly frustration with the performance as well.

[ricardo 7,384]

14 minutes ago, HertsCanary93 said:

The thing that triggered me the most about the ref was his watch gesture when WBA were time wasting... It might have had more of an impact if he'd added on more than 1 minute in the first half.

I thought he was particularly dreadful - and that includes the (imo) stonewall WBA penalty and (less sure on this one) controversial Norwich goal.

I think much of the booing was aimed at him, but there was certainly frustration with the performance as well.

Yes, I think Hanley was fortunate to get away with that. I was right above it in the River End and it didn't look shoulder to shoulder. 

The booing around me was certainly aimed at the team for a dismal performance. The ref wasn't good but he made two massive decisions in our favour that gave us a point.

[PockthorpePete 331]

What is unclear is what directives the FA have given to refs this season. One appears to be a tightening up on players gaining ground on throw is. I have seen players ordered back on numerous occasions. Something I have not seen before. This seems to have come at the expense of 'boisterous' play. Hefty body checks now seem to be acceptable. As to defenders grabbing and pushing, then simply order them out of the box, without them replaced by someone else standing outside the box. A more open signal to the player, and the crowd, that the clock has been stopped when a player is time wasting, would also help.

[Petriix 2,834]

People seem to be under the misguided notion that the ref stops his watch when there is time wasting. That's only true if a player is actually booked.

[PockthorpePete 331]

Nothing misguided about knowing time is added on for time wasting, without there being any booking.

[Pyro Pete 1,893]

I would disagree that WBA were dominant. We had 66% possession and around 600 passes (compared to their 300).

Admittedly, we did sweet fa with it.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Pyro Pete

[daly 501]

Absolute rubbish today

Negative play with the back 4 going nowhere apart from cross field play

Only looked like giving WBA any problems when Hernandez came on

Refs seem really poor nothing done about the time wasting 

 

[yellowandgreen 34]

We had 66% of possession but 90% of that was in our own half.

[taipei_canary 12]

After watching the highlights I would say it was a goal, there is a WBA closer to the goal line than Byram when Puki shoots and it looks to me it hits the shoulder between his neck and chest. On the basis of that I can't see that VAR would have ruled it out - we were lucky though.

[ricardo 7,384]

9 hours ago, Pyro Pete said:

We had 66% possession and around 600 passes (compared to their 300).

Most of which were in our own half.

[Badger 2,405]

It was a very poor game today agreed - but tbh, I didn't have high hopes for it before it even started - there is something about the "professional way" that Bruce's teams play that I hate.

Only thing to salvage is that we got a point - how many times have we played against teams like this, gone one nil down early and had the game completely closed off to us? When we went behind, I thought that was it and was pleasantly surprised to get a point at all.

[hogesar 9,658]

12 hours ago, Petriix said:

People seem to be under the misguided notion that the ref stops his watch when there is time wasting. That's only true if a player is actually booked.

No although there's a new level of pathetic from the referee when he keeps pointing at his watch for about 6 minutes of time wasting in the first half...yet gives a single minute.

 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,135]

We were awful yesterday, I was getting so frustrated by how they were first to every ball and worked harder than us. I don't care about the misplaced passes or a lack of quality but I absolutely hate it when we get out-worked and out-fought by a visiting team. I don't care whether WBA were desperate to play well and get a result for their manager it's irrelevant to me, at CR infront of our home fans who suffered a lot last year we should want it more and out work and out run every team who visits this year, that's the absolute minimum we should be expecting. 

It was the last game before an international break as well so we shouldn't have been taking a breather due to the relentless fixture list, I could kind of understand it if we were away to a hard working side in bad weather during the middle of a fixture list but we should have left everything on the pitch today and didn't, people can talk about a sense of entitlement from the fans but it felt like the team had that sense of entitlement that they could just turn up and win today and that's unacceptable to me. 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Christoph Stiepermann

[ricardo 7,384]

10 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

 

 people can talk about a sense of entitlement from the fans but it felt like the team had that sense of entitlement that they could just turn up and win today and that's unacceptable to me. 

I don't get this "sense of entitlement" nonsense that some are spouting. We arguably have the best squad in this division, if not then certainly top two. In which case any competent manager should be able to get this team promoted. This should not be a season where we are looking at midtable. Yes, there will be many hard games but we should have the edge in quality and depth of squad.

From what I have seen so far there have been moments when we have looked the part but worryingly,  too many moments when we have looked a bit short of the mark. Perhaps this will all come together when we have the DCM position covered and a proper left back.

[Chelm Canary 404]

I can't remember a game in which I've seen so many stray passes.

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Chelm Canary

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,135]

4 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I don't get this "sense of entitlement" nonsense that some are spouting. We arguably have the best squad in this division, if not then certainly top two. In which case any competent manager should be able to get this team promoted. This should not be a season where we are looking at midtable. Yes, there will be many hard games but we should have the edge in quality and depth of squad.

From what I have seen so far there have been moments when we have looked the part but worryingly,  too many moments when we have looked a bit short of the mark. Perhaps this will all come together when we have the DCM position covered and a proper left back.

Agreed and I find it frustrating that some including some journalists keep saying that. It's like they're completely ignoring the context of last season, the fact we know if we get promoted we'll likely have to endure another dreadful season where we lose most games and that we have one of the best teams in this league and expect this team to actually turn up for games which we didn't yesterday. If it's obvious from the first whistle that the team aren't up for the game and think that they don't have to work as hard as the opposition then of course the fans are going to be quiet and moany.

On that last bit though I don't think things will improve if we have Giannoulis and Hayden fit. Byram at left back is already better than most left backs in this league and Hayden really isn't the defensive midfielder people are expecting him to be, he's more of an all rounder but he works hard. In terms of clicking I think the games we've seen so far are as good as it's going to get but none of that will mean anything if the team aren't going to put the effort in like yesterday. 

[chicken 2,624]

15 hours ago, ricardo said:

it happened again in the second half. Defender pushed, no action. Sarge pushed back, free kick. I really don't know how they stop this sort of thing other than give loads of pens and that seems unlikely to happen.

Play advantage, give a yellow after. That way no pen needed. If before a set piece you don't have to give a pen, ball is not considered in play, so players can be carded without pens given.

There are ways and means. 

[chicken 2,624]

19 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I don't get this "sense of entitlement" nonsense that some are spouting. We arguably have the best squad in this division, if not then certainly top two. In which case any competent manager should be able to get this team promoted. This should not be a season where we are looking at midtable. Yes, there will be many hard games but we should have the edge in quality and depth of squad.

From what I have seen so far there have been moments when we have looked the part but worryingly,  too many moments when we have looked a bit short of the mark. Perhaps this will all come together when we have the DCM position covered and a proper left back.

In many cases Ricardo, it usually references last season. And this ongoing argument that a the team are doing well because they are good and has nothing ti do with Dean Smith.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

We do have a paradox here. Yes we are in the top two. Yes we are garnering points at a rate to get us promoted. Yes we have probably the best squad in the league. So we have high hopes of getting promoted.

Yet I can't escape the feeling that we have gone backwards. In all respects. In the coach, recruitment and ability. Its no good us just harping on about a DM. Yes, crucial in today's football, but surely we have the other 10 players to cover that.

For instance, Onel was sent out on loan last season because he wasn't considered as good as Placheta or Rashica. Now he is back and most think he changes a game when he comes on. But is he really the future of the team? Teemu felt he would have moved on. And we have cleared out nearly all of last season's signings.

In fact while there is success on the pitch at the moment, I feel behind the scenes we are in disarray.

[Badger 2,405]

I don't, as a general rule, like pragmatic football but if we want to stand any chance of staying up, were we to be promoted. it will be necessary to be more so than we have in previous years.

One of the most important part of this will be goals against (and xGa). It is early in the season but by these measures we are doing better than the Farke teams, but it does make us less pleasing on the eye. The goals against of Farke teams was always high because we took risks to dominate the game: it worked in the championship but not the Premier League.

We come back again to the same old conundrum - if we want to survive future promotions we have  play in a way that is less pleasing and dominating and need to embed that this year.

There is also the issue (which I know is a red rag to some) that statistically WBA are probably the best team in the league this season so far this season but it is obviously not (yet) reflected in the table. They have the highest xG and the lowest xGa in the championship: striker issues may prevent them getting full value for this atm but despite what some may think the league table is misleading.

[Badger 2,405]

The data to support what I have said above.