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The Great Mass Debater

Last seasons Marquee signings

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On 12/09/2022 at 03:16, Kingston Yellow said:

100% this.  We tried to be clever and it backfired massively.  Instead of investing sensibly on experienced players with no resale value, we’ve invested badly (and lost significant sums) on young players with no resale value.

And before anyone jumps down my throat, Rashisca, Tzolis and Sargent would all have been sold had anyone been interested in buying. 

What does 'investing sensibly on experienced players' mean? It's so easy to pop it down on a message board, you'd think all promoted clubs would apply that logic and survive every season.

Investing sensibly, I assume, would not be spending too much money on quality players. Considering our record transfer is around 10 million, a sensible fee for us is below 5 million. 

Which experienced PL quality players cost 5 million pounds, will accept sensible wages and want to come to Norwich? They'd also need to be good enough to guarantee survival.

I'd argue that the club have tried to invest sensibly on experienced players - PLM was pretty experienced and cost 3.5 million, whilst Drmic had success in Germany and signed for free. As I just mentioned in my reply to GMD, we contacted Cahill and King last season too. That gives you an idea of the quality that we can expect if we'd pursue your policy.

Funnily enough, it isn't easy. We need to get everything right - as well as some luck (cough VAR) - in order to have any chance of surviving in the PL. Hopefully the combination of Attenasio plus the new influx of South American players will help give us a bit more of a chance.

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On 11/09/2022 at 13:09, The Great Mass Debater said:

Rashica we were told was coveted by some of the top clubs in England the season before and like RvW before him we had stolen a march on the bigger clubs who wanted him. Tzolis was one of the most exciting young players in Europe, with the potential to be one of the top talents in the world.

Rashica made hardly any impact and has now been farmed out on loan (albeit to a bigger club). Tzolis also shipped out on loan as soon as possible after practically zero game time. 

£20m between them roughly, of our Premier League warchest - money that was supposed to make us competitve in the Premier League.

What are we to conclude that neither were felt to be necessary for even our championship campaign a year later at a level lower?

I think it’s too early to call on Tzolis and Rashica gets game time at a much bigger club than Norwich with the potential for his return 

Onel hernandez and Todd Cantwell have shown us this year that being sent on loan doesn’t mean curtains for your Career with norwich and before writing off either Tzolis or Rashica it would be sensible to note that. 

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9 hours ago, Petriix said:

Sargent has transformed into a 1 goal per 106 minutes Championship striker. £10m seems like a bargain for that. 1 success in 3 signings isn't great, but it's much better than it previously looked. 

The worst thing about signing Rashica was the number of first team minutes he was afforded. I honestly think we would have been better off if he'd broken his leg in training before kicking a competitive ball for us.

On the whole, this year's midfield is so much better than what we had last year.

Not acceptable to wish injury on a player regardless of the situation 

sargent again should be proof that you would be foolish to write off either Tzolis or Rashica just yet 

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6 hours ago, Yobocop said:

I think it’s too early to call on Tzolis and Rashica gets game time at a much bigger club than Norwich with the potential for his return 

Onel hernandez and Todd Cantwell have shown us this year that being sent on loan doesn’t mean curtains for your Career with norwich and before writing off either Tzolis or Rashica it would be sensible to note that. 

Agreed, but the big difference with Onel and Todd is that they had already delivered in a City shirt and it was easier to slot back in. Rashica and Tzolis have shown relatively little really.

 

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On 12/09/2022 at 17:06, Petriix said:

Sargent has transformed into a 1 goal per 106 minutes Championship striker. £10m seems like a bargain for that.

Has he transformed, or was this always his level? Plenty of Championship strikers of this calibre struggle at Premier League level. So the question remains, why are we buying at this standard for a Premier League campaign? - because he was woeful in the Premier League.

Id rather have a 30 year old of the required standard who had a hope in hell's chance of scoring goals to keep us in the Premier League, than a younger player who wasnt at the races but one day could be good enough but probably wont be

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3 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Has he transformed, or was this always his level? Plenty of Championship strikers of this calibre struggle at Premier League level. So the question remains, why are we buying at this standard for a Premier League campaign? - because he was woeful in the Premier League.

Id rather have a 30 year old of the required standard who had a hope in hell's chance of scoring goals to keep us in the Premier League, than a younger player who wasnt at the races but one day could be good enough but probably wont be

Considering he's only what, 21? He's a long way from a strikers peak level at the moment, which would have been part of the thought process.

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23 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Considering he's only what, 21? He's a long way from a strikers peak level at the moment, which would have been part of the thought process.

For a Premier League season? Im sorry but the decision to spend huge amounts of money (for this club) on potential when the club needs to upgrade is a poor one in my opinion. Not the approach taken by a club with any serious intent of being competitive in the league.

I wonder if Farke was happy with acquiring players for the future, considering results in the here and now cost him his job very swiftly. Im guessing he'd have preferred a few players for the 21/22 season, not ones which may come good for his successor in a few years time

Edited by The Great Mass Debater

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8 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

For a Premier League season? Im sorry but the decision to spend huge amounts of money (for this club) on potential when the club needs to upgrade is a poor one in my opinion. Not the approach taken by a club with any serious intent of being competitive in the league.

I wonder if Farke was happy with acquiring players for the future, considering results in the here and now cost him his job very swiftly. Im guessing he'd have preferred a few players for the 21/22 season, not ones which may come good for his successor in a few years time

He was no where near ready for the Prem, I think we can all agree. I think the same would applied had we spent the same on an older player, many struggle to adapt to the English game and we were never going to get a proven prem goalscorer within our budget.

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28 minutes ago, hogesar said:

He was no where near ready for the Prem, I think we can all agree. I think the same would applied had we spent the same on an older player, many struggle to adapt to the English game and we were never going to get a proven prem goalscorer within our budget.

That is selling Farke down the river for me

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7 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

That is selling Farke down the river for me

I don't really disagree. But I imagine Pukki was thought of as our main striker, with Idah and Sargent as options. Sargent as a 20 minute hard-working option is different to how much we had to rely on him because of the Todd situation, Rashica not performing and Tzolis even less so. So your points valid, but not really due to Sargent, due to how all the transfers unfolded.

I think we'd have done better but I don't think we'd have had enough to stay up had we only signed 2 players for £20 mill each, for example.

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Just now, hogesar said:

I don't really disagree. But I imagine Pukki was thought of as our main striker, with Idah and Sargent as options. Sargent as a 20 minute hard-working option is different to how much we had to rely on him because of the Todd situation, Rashica not performing and Tzolis even less so. So your points valid, but not really due to Sargent, due to how all the transfers unfolded.

I think we'd have done better but I don't think we'd have had enough to stay up had we only signed 2 players for £20 mill each, for example.

Id probably disagree with that. The main holes in our squad were Emi and Skipp. Two £20m genuine replacements for them and we may well have had enough

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Ultimately we did attempt to sign players for the 'here and now' (there and then?) as well as potential for the future. Unfortunately none of them were ready or good enough for last season.

At least with Sargent we're seeing some of that potential coming good. There's always hope that Tzolis might develop too (despite his mum @Tzol Machine apparently going off him).

The squad as a whole is in a far better place now than at this stage last season. 

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1 hour ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Id probably disagree with that. The main holes in our squad were Emi and Skipp. Two £20m genuine replacements for them and we may well have had enough

I cant think of a genuine 20m replacement for either. 

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3 hours ago, hogesar said:

I cant think of a genuine 20m replacement for either. 

My point is we would never spend that kind of money, and that is our downfall. We are not prepared to pay the fees or wages required to get the calibre required. Take Ajer for instance, seemingly our primary target. We were only competing against Brentford, who despite their darling status at present are not a club we should automatically think we cannot compete with. But we had our upper limit and refused to do what it took to get the signing over the line. 

We were once chasing Virgil van Dijk before he joined Southampton rumour would have it, but we refused to stump up the cash and then look what happened. He was a player we could have conceivably signed if we only had the drive to do so.

Southampton signed van Dijk for £12.5m I believe and sold him for £75m.

If we had a warchest of £60m I think it was, you're talking about potential quality like this. We could have had Ajer had we been willing to pay for him. But we werent, we went with Kabak on loan instead. That worked out well.

I dont think we needed major surgery - just corrective surgery and a few quality additions. 

Pukki we know can score in the PL. We needed one more striker of a similar standard to compete with him. Thats £20m perhaps.

A defensive midfielder - £20m Im sure could get you a replacement for Skipp.

That leaves £20m to replace Emi. That replacement doesnt have to be as good as him, but has to replicate his creativity. We didnt sign anyone like that and therefore Pukki suffered.

**** £20m on someone with a bit of flair and creativity and we might have had a half decent chance. 

 

 

Instead we did what we did and pretty much every single signing was a flop.

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I wouldn't entirely write off Tsoliz in a yellow shirt yet, although definitely wouldn't bet on him succeeding.

Rashica on the other hand simply doesn't have enough strings to his bow, he's not good enough for English football.

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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