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Sooty57

Did Billy buy a return ticket?

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After many offered the opinion that Billy Gilmour's move to Brighton would benefit him by working with Graham Potter, it is ironic that Potter looks like he's going the other way.

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Maybe Potter knew what was coming and signed him so he wasn't on Chelsea's books anymore. Football genius

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9 minutes ago, OnDaBall said:

Maybe Potter knew what was coming and signed him so he wasn't on Chelsea's books anymore. Football genius

And added 10 million to his new clubs kitty. Bit like on the old Champ Managers when you'd create a new manager, take over Man Utd and make them buy Shaun Carey for £5 million before retiring.

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Chelsea will have sounded out Potter via his agent before sacking Tuchel. This is all a bit quick and convenient.

Masterstroke by Potter re Gilmour.

 

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34 minutes ago, daly said:

No way will Chelsea go for Potter

Obviously the Chelsea Board didn't consult you first 😉

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27 minutes ago, Sooty57 said:

Obviously the Chelsea Board didn't consult you first 😉

No pity they didn’t 

12 months max and back to Championship 

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52 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

I thought there was a buy back clause, but I'm not sure.

As good as Brighton are, they could easily get relegated if they make a bad appointment. 

The obvious choice would be Knudsen from Bodø/Glimt.

I believe there is, but Chelsea don't have to exorcise it, just like Liverpool have a £40m buyback clause on Rian Brewster...

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53 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

I believe there is, but Chelsea don't have to exorcise it, just like Liverpool have a £40m buyback clause on Rian Brewster...

I'm still trying that with last season.

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13 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

I thought there was a buy back clause, but I'm not sure.

As good as Brighton are, they could easily get relegated if they make a bad appointment. 

The obvious choice would be Knudsen from Bodø/Glimt.

Oh no hes the Norwich 2023/24 target when we fire Smith

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47 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Yeah. Probably. But £40m is the new £5m for EPL teams, so you never know. 😉

I both understand the resentment towards Billy Gilmour and I don't.

Yes, he was built up by the media to be a hybrid of Deschamps, Pirlo and Zidane.

But shock, horror, he failed to live up to it.

A 20 year old with zero top team experience failed to live up unreasonable expectations of the English media. Who da thunk it. 😉

Also, a 20 year old with zero top top team experience was still better than your most experienced midfielders (Normann and McLean) A look at the numbers will tell you that.

That's a damning indictment on the Norwich recruitment team.

As a neutral who watched most of your EPL matches in the EPL, the narrative that Billy Gilmour was a failure is a false narrative. 

With all due respect. 😉

He doesn't deserve resentment, it's not really his fault he didn't live up to what other people made him out to be. And he did try. He didn't give up.

Equally though, I don't agree he was better than the two midfielders you mention, and he had some first team exposure at Chelsea.

I'm not sure what numbers you are looking at?

Vs Normann, Normann scored a goal unlike Billy. Normann got 2 assists, Billy got 1. Normann won more in the air. Normann made more combined tackles / interceptions and clearances and successfully dribbled with ball more than Billy.

In fact, the only thing Gilmour done better than Normann, who himself had a poor season, was pass the ball backwards a bit more.

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8 minutes ago, hogesar said:

He doesn't deserve resentment, it's not really his fault he didn't live up to what other people made him out to be. And he did try. He didn't give up.

Equally though, I don't agree he was better than the two midfielders you mention, and he had some first team exposure at Chelsea.

I'm not sure what numbers you are looking at?

Vs Normann, Normann scored a goal unlike Billy. Normann got 2 assists, Billy got 1. Normann won more in the air. Normann made more combined tackles / interceptions and clearances and successfully dribbled with ball more than Billy.

In fact, the only thing Gilmour done better than Normann, who himself had a poor season, was pass the ball backwards a bit more.

He was apart of a team that got a 0-0 draw with england though, so you know, winning 🙏😂

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Yeah, I'm intrigued as to what these "numbers" are too. Having watched most of our games last season, Gilmour was comfortably our worst midfielder. Normann beats him with goals and assists, McLean scored so is at worst level with Gilmour's single assist, but arguably beats him as a goal generally trumps an assist. Gilmour's PPG was beaten in dreadfulness only by Kabak if you dismiss those who didn't start more than half a dozen games. His pass completion % was only 2 higher than McLean's, but when you consider that almost all his passes were crappy sideways or backwards ones, then 84% is pretty dreadful; at least McLean attempted occasional attacking balls, as his 3.08 Expected Assists to Billy Gilmours 1.66 will attest (Normann had 2.01).

To put it bluntly, McLean was pretty awful last season, Normann was much worse. And Gilmour was still our worse midfielder out of the three, both on the evidence of my eyes and the numbers that I can see.

So I say again, what numbers do you have @TheDarkKnight that I don't?

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2 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Because goals and assists are the only stats that you judge midfielders.

Did you stop reading after the first couple of sentences? What a bizarre response to a post that as well as using goals and assists, also refers to XA, PPG and pass completion %.

I know arguing that Gilmour was anything other than absolutely dire last year is a tough assignment, but let's try and avoid deliberate disingenuity and strawmen, shall we?

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8 minutes ago, TheDarkKnight said:

Pretty much underlines what I said about most football fans being confused by the simplicity of football. 

The aforementioned Dunga and Deschamps (Throw in Makelele and Lahm) were the masters of "crappy sideways or backwards passing".

Every successful football team requires a metronome in midfield. Pretty much why the Emgland central duo of Lampard and Gerrard failed hysterically.

Masters being the right word. Gilmour is as far removed from a master as anyone has is possible. Your stats are also not accurate, all three of them made errors that led to shots so why they have all been given zero or one for that I will never know. Furthermore, does that count fouls that led to shots or goalscoring chances? Because Billy Gilmour gave away the second most fouls for us last season, largely due to his inability to keep up with play or mark a player. Nothing about set pieces either, which were often inexplicably given to Gilmour to take responsibility for. In fact, I'm pretty certain his solitary assist was from a corner, so he didn't even create a goal from open play. The majority of his freekicks and corners were absolutely abject, but that's as much on Smith for persisting with him.

He could not keep up with the flow of the game, rarely tracked runners, was too often dominated by other midfielders. Rice dominating him in the Chelsea game was a real man against boy moment and hugely frustrating given Rice didn't seem capable of that in an England shirt in the previous summer.

Oh, he also couldn't shoot. 18 shots and only 3 made it to the keeper and none of which caused them to have to make a challenging save.

Can't press, can't mark, can't track a run, can't shoot, can't set up goals, woeful set piece success, but as he can hit a ball accurately 10 yards (as long as he's not pressured) backwards or sideways, he'll card some decent numbers for those suffering from cognitive dissonance to post on an internet forum. So he does have that going for him.

 

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2 hours ago, TheDarkKnight said:

I posted the numbers.

Give them another little read. 🙂

I know. I know. It doesn't fit in with the narrative of using a 20 year old kid as your whipping boy, but do give it a read. 🙂

In the vast majority of passing and defensive numbers, Gilmour was superior to the competitors to his position in midfield. To allege differently is either telling a whopping lie or not believing unbiased statistics. 

I see your numbers. But there's no point taking just individual stats, for example defensively you should combine tackles, interceptions and clearances. Normann was better than Gilmour in this regard, and Normann himself was terrible.

Gilmour was absolutely terrible for us, your stats back that up even if you do decide to use them individually to suggest he was better than Normann. Gilmour didn't influence a single match at Premier League level which is probably why he has gone from being the next big Chelsea star to a £9 mill Brighton punt. 

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PREMIER LEAGUE STATS

Wins: 5 (20th)
Draws: 7 (=12th)
Losses: 26 (2nd)
Goals scored: 23 (20th)
Goals conceded: 84 (1st)
Yellow cards: 55 (=16th)
Red cards: 1 (=15th)
Passes: 14,466 (16th)
Shots: 373 (20th)
Big chances missed: 27 (19th)
Saves: 142 (2nd)
Tackles: 614 (10th)
Own goals: 2 (=4th)
Hit woodwork: 9 (=16th)
Clearances: 816 (3rd)

All your fault Billy. 🙃

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22 minutes ago, Mengo said:

All your fault Billy.

I don't think anyone was saying Billy Gilmour was the only reason we went down. That would be as stupid as arguing he was anything other than useless for us last season. Your stats show that in a team of awful, Billy was able to stand out and be worse than a pretty awful average.

Edited by canarydan23

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32 minutes ago, Mengo said:

PREMIER LEAGUE STATS

Wins: 5 (20th)
Draws: 7 (=12th)
Losses: 26 (2nd)
Goals scored: 23 (20th)
Goals conceded: 84 (1st)
Yellow cards: 55 (=16th)
Red cards: 1 (=15th)
Passes: 14,466 (16th)
Shots: 373 (20th)
Big chances missed: 27 (19th)
Saves: 142 (2nd)
Tackles: 614 (10th)
Own goals: 2 (=4th)
Hit woodwork: 9 (=16th)
Clearances: 816 (3rd)

Yeah but apart from that.

Not a single position on the pitch were we any good.

You don't have a spare £200m do you so we can spare this humiliation next time?

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2 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Yeah but apart from that.

Not a single position on the pitch were we any good.

You don't have a spare £200m do you so we can spare this humiliation next time?

Look the coffee and Pimenta harvest here in Brazil 🇧🇷 wasn't that good , I would love to be able to lend Norwich  some money.

Anyway.

Tuchel and Farke ( aye , aye )

It was Daniel Farke who convinced Gilmour to make the switch to Carrow Road, speaking to him convincingly of the club’s project and the 20 year-old’s role within it. Which makes it all the more strange that, after just a few games of this season, Gilmour found himself out of Farke’s team. In five consecutive matches, he did not even make it off the bench.

your fault again Billy.  🙃

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16 minutes ago, Mengo said:

Look the coffee and Pimenta harvest here in Brazil 🇧🇷 wasn't that good , I would love to be able to lend Norwich  some money.

Anyway.

Tuchel and Farke ( aye , aye )

It was Daniel Farke who convinced Gilmour to make the switch to Carrow Road, speaking to him convincingly of the club’s project and the 20 year-old’s role within it. Which makes it all the more strange that, after just a few games of this season, Gilmour found himself out of Farke’s team. In five consecutive matches, he did not even make it off the bench.

your fault again Billy.  🙃

Got to respect a guy who recognises he's made a mistake and does what he can to rectify the problem, haven't you? Probably why so many struggle to respect Webber.

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4 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Got to respect a guy who recognises he's made a mistake and does what he can to rectify the problem, haven't you? Probably why so many struggle to respect Webber.

Yeah I really struggle for sure . Respect. Your havin a 😃

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35 minutes ago, Mengo said:

Yeah I really struggle for sure . Respect. Your havin a 😃

I'm sure that means something to someone.

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Said it before but Billy's main problem is actually the national media.

Overhyping him to oblivion and then when we are getting hammered there are reports coming out of Talksh1yte, Beeb and Chelski saying basiclly

" Well Norwich are taking a thrashing because they are awefull, but look at Wee Billy... what a Fing player! Hes flying in a team of duds"

That infuriated many as week in week out we just saw him under performing and getting the plaudits despite this.

So actually.... 
The National Sports Media destroyed Billy Gilmour, not Norwich, Not Billy and not TT. 

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21 minutes ago, Nexus_Canary said:

Said it before but Billy's main problem is actually the national media.

Overhyping him to oblivion and then when we are getting hammered there are reports coming out of Talksh1yte, Beeb and Chelski saying basiclly

" Well Norwich are taking a thrashing because they are awefull, but look at Wee Billy... what a Fing player! Hes flying in a team of duds"

That infuriated many as week in week out we just saw him under performing and getting the plaudits despite this.

So actually.... 
The National Sports Media destroyed Billy Gilmour, not Norwich, Not Billy and not TT. 

And the dark knight  😂

Edited by GodlyOtsemobor
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