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dylanisabaddog

Asthma and Liverpool

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https://trainingground.guru/articles/liverpool-and-asthma-inhalers-is-there-any-substance-to-the-innuendo

The Internet has for some time been awash with rumours about Liverpool'use of caffeine and asthma drugs.  The caffeine allegations have followed Klopp from Dortmund. They finished top or near the top for a couple of years then suddenly found themselves in mid table. The suggestion is that players can only take so much before their bodies give in. 

The statistic that 22 of 35 Liverpool players have been diagnosed with asthma is extraordinary if true. It should be noted that some of GB's top cyclists were also diagnosed with asthma and needed drugs which provide as a side effect a huge boost in performance. 

There are numerous accusations on the Internet about Liverpool specifically, including an interview with Salah and Henderson who joked about "their secret".

https://www.empireofthekop.com/2022/05/26/video-jordan-henderson-and-mo-salah-nod-to-the-inhaler-rumours-as-they-joke-about-remaining-fit-all-season/

What do people think? Is this true and if so is it likely to be widespread? 

Edited by dylanisabaddog

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Really interesting topic. 

Manchester City have faced allegations of PEDs in the past, and TEU (therapeutic use exemption) abuse. Many other clubs I expect.

Regarding asthma, inhalers have been proven to have a performance enhancement effect due to the steroid content. They are easy to get hold of from a GP,  often prescribed under 'exercise induced asthma' which is a legitimate condition, although hard to define. So I'm not surprised they are used and abused.  

What I do find interesting, is the perception society and the media have on 'doping' and sport. Any allegation in sports such as cycling, athletics and boxing is headline news and the perpetrators vilified. But football, it rarely causes a ripple. It's acceptable for footballers to have steroid injections to treat injuries and aid recovery, yet in cycling anything intravenous is illegal. But cycling is the one with the drug problem, due to it's chequered past. 

If doping in football was properly investigated, and IMO it should be,  the authorities would have a real problem. But it won't be, because of the economic value of the sport. 

Edited by Creedence Clearwater Couto
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Specifically Clenbuterol is taken by some 'athletes' to enhance performance. It is banned by WADA. The same drug is taken to treat asthma. Presumably there is drug testing in football and the banned substances are the same?

The side effects can be severe. I would be amazed if elite footballers are going down that road, but who knows with the contracts on offer nowadays!

I don't know anything about inhalers and the drugs used in them  but this has to be highly suspicious.

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1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

https://trainingground.guru/articles/liverpool-and-asthma-inhalers-is-there-any-substance-to-the-innuendo

The Internet has for some time been awash with rumours about Liverpool'use of caffeine and asthma drugs.  The caffeine allegations have followed Klopp from Dortmund. They finished top or near the top for a couple of years then suddenly found themselves in mid table. The suggestion is that players can only take so much before their bodies give in. 

The statistic that 22 of 35 Liverpool players have been diagnosed with asthma is extraordinary if true. It should be noted that some of GB's top cyclists were also diagnosed with asthma and needed drugs which provide as a side effect a huge boost in performance. 

There are numerous accusations on the Internet about Liverpool specifically, including an interview with Salah and Henderson who joked about "their secret".

https://www.empireofthekop.com/2022/05/26/video-jordan-henderson-and-mo-salah-nod-to-the-inhaler-rumours-as-they-joke-about-remaining-fit-all-season/

What do people think? Is this true and if so is it likely to be widespread? 

Can we start pumping drugs into Norwich players so we have extraordinary levels of performance going forwards? Perhaps Smith is putting something in there gatorade at lunch time which has contributed to our 5 game winning streak 😉. Ps. When I was 8 I used to go to the local sport centre and taking dextrose energy tablets (£1.50 a pack) and I won every medal at school for swimming, running, egg and spoon race. Perhaps I cheated, but I won everything.

Edited by jaberry2

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1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

https://trainingground.guru/articles/liverpool-and-asthma-inhalers-is-there-any-substance-to-the-innuendo

The Internet has for some time been awash with rumours about Liverpool'use of caffeine and asthma drugs.  The caffeine allegations have followed Klopp from Dortmund. They finished top or near the top for a couple of years then suddenly found themselves in mid table. The suggestion is that players can only take so much before their bodies give in. 

The statistic that 22 of 35 Liverpool players have been diagnosed with asthma is extraordinary if true. It should be noted that some of GB's top cyclists were also diagnosed with asthma and needed drugs which provide as a side effect a huge boost in performance. 

There are numerous accusations on the Internet about Liverpool specifically, including an interview with Salah and Henderson who joked about "their secret".

https://www.empireofthekop.com/2022/05/26/video-jordan-henderson-and-mo-salah-nod-to-the-inhaler-rumours-as-they-joke-about-remaining-fit-all-season/

What do people think? Is this true and if so is it likely to be widespread? 

Never their fault

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1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

Our players should have been tested for performance reducing drugs last season….

Bravo.

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Comparisons with cycling are interesting. At least 3 GB medal winners in recent times have taken drugs for asthma. That includes Bradley Wiggins who won the Tour de France closely followed by Olympic Gold. The cycling community had declared that to be impossible until he managed to do it. 

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27 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

Can we start pumping drugs into Norwich players so we have extraordinary levels of performance going forwards? Perhaps Smith is putting something in there gatorade at lunch time which has contributed to our 5 game winning streak

The secret is in the mug.😉

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41 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Really interesting topic. 

Manchester City have faced allegations of PEDs in the past, and TEU (therapeutic use exemption) abuse. Many other clubs I expect.

Watching Jamie Vardy warming up a couple of years ago was a bit of an eye opener. He swallowed 3 sachets of something in about 30 minutes. God knows what it was 🤔

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2 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Watching Jamie Vardy warming up a couple of years ago was a bit of an eye opener. He swallowed 3 sachets of something in about 30 minutes. God knows what it was 🤔

It didnt enhance his personality for sure 😉

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37 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

Can we start pumping drugs into Norwich players so we have extraordinary levels of performance going forwards?

Prob more needed by the defenders than forward tbf

 

I've got me coat

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There are drugs at clubs, including the big UK ones,   but the asthma one is now easily detected.   

An ex player I know insists it's not an issue in britain clubs,  

The Spanish clubs in oarticular seem to physically increase players without retribution.   The drugs test regime does always seem to be one step behind. 

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9 minutes ago, ZLF said:

There are drugs at clubs, including the big UK ones,   but the asthma one is now easily detected.   

An ex player I know insists it's not an issue in britain clubs,  

The Spanish clubs in oarticular seem to physically increase players without retribution.   The drugs test regime does always seem to be one step behind. 

Liverpool allegedly have 22 asthmatic players. They are allowed to use medication in the same way as the cyclists I mentioned above and it provides an 8% boost in performance. 

22 out of 35 is an extraordinary number 

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31 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Watching Jamie Vardy warming up a couple of years ago was a bit of an eye opener. He swallowed 3 sachets of something in about 30 minutes. God knows what it was 🤔

I use caffeine enhanced energy gels on some cycling events. They take a good 10 mins to kick in but you do notice the benefit. 

I've noticed some substitutes take them immediately before coming on the pitch as well. 

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38 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Watching Jamie Vardy warming up a couple of years ago was a bit of an eye opener. He swallowed 3 sachets of something in about 30 minutes. God knows what it was 🤔

Was that not tobacco pouches he used?

But in reference to the asthma, it's interesting reading that article and what the doctor actually says about exercise induced asthma and why it is so prevalent in elite athletes, then think about the conditions that they are training in and it starts to make sense why there is a greater prevalence in athletes than in the wider population, i.e. you train hard in conditions bad for your lungs and you develop asthma. 64% does seem to be a bit of an outlier but if you are only recruiting the players that train the hardest then you would probably expect a higher than high incidence in them. It also details the effects and doping limits of the inhalers... But that's not to say Liverpool aren't abusing it or getting TUEs to use the tablets... 

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No idea about Liverpool specifically, but it's always seemed to me a simple logical probability, in a sport where the financial rewards for success are so high, and where every club is searching for every marginal gain, and where moral principles headed for the coast many, many years ago, that use of illegal drugs is going to be extremely tempting.

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6 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I use caffeine enhanced energy gels on some cycling events. They take a good 10 mins to kick in but you do notice the benefit. 

I've noticed some substitutes take them immediately before coming on the pitch as well. 

Odd. I never do well on any form of caffeine shot at all. Tried liquid ones, Revvie strips, caffeinated gels, and no matter how, I always end up with stitch that I don't usually get. That said, I took a pack of Revvies in for my vets team, a couple of the lads went out and played on them and really rated them. Me, I did a parkrun with one and a 5K road race the day after without on courses of fairly similar difficulty, and did the road race over a minute faster.

Energy gels that aren't caffeinated work best with me. @jaberry2 mentioned Dextro tabs, they're excellent value for money and a decent boost.

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11 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I use caffeine enhanced energy gels on some cycling events. They take a good 10 mins to kick in but you do notice the benefit. 

I've noticed some substitutes take them immediately before coming on the pitch as well. 

Is your real name Lance? 😉

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55 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Watching Jamie Vardy warming up a couple of years ago was a bit of an eye opener. He swallowed 3 sachets of something in about 30 minutes. God knows what it was 🤔

I've always maintained there was something odd about the title winning Leicester team. Their performance levels throughout the team were consistently insane.

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1 hour ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Liverpool allegedly have 22 asthmatic players. They are allowed to use medication in the same way as the cyclists I mentioned above and it provides an 8% boost in performance. 

22 out of 35 is an extraordinary number 

Listen to the report I posted - it gives a more balanced view of why the ratio is higher than the general population,  whether the perceived performance increase is there or not, and the source of the "data" and the subsequent sensationalist click bait conspiracy versions.

 I have no doubt there are widescale performance abuses particularly in the larger clubs, incl lfc,  but the evidence here,  for me,  isn't strong. 

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PED use in football is almost certainly more widespread than is currently known.

I follow cycling and it was very badly rocked by the Operation Puerto scandal in 2006. Essentially, a Spanish laboratory of Dr Eufemiano Fuentes was raided and blood samples of 60 cyclists were discovered and identified.

Only cyclists were incriminated in it; however, over 200 blood samples were found, all allegedly athletes. So who provided the other blood samples? The more observant among you will have noted that this was a Spanish lab and Spanish Doctor and a certain footballing nation were particularly dominant at that time.

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agree on the spain element - the physical growth of some players at RM & FCB is miraculous..

 

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2 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Odd. I never do well on any form of caffeine shot at all. Tried liquid ones, Revvie strips, caffeinated gels, and no matter how, I always end up with stitch that I don't usually get. That said, I took a pack of Revvies in for my vets team, a couple of the lads went out and played on them and really rated them. Me, I did a parkrun with one and a 5K road race the day after without on courses of fairly similar difficulty, and did the road race over a minute faster.

Energy gels that aren't caffeinated work best with me. @jaberry2 mentioned Dextro tabs, they're excellent value for money and a decent boost.

Try concentrated beetroot shots, taste absolutely vile but good results.

If you do some reading there is a lot of research behind it.

https://worldathletics.org/be-active/performance/beetroots-nitrates-boost-performance-enduranc

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2 hours ago, ZLF said:

Listen to the report I posted - it gives a more balanced view of why the ratio is higher than the general population,  whether the perceived performance increase is there or not, and the source of the "data" and the subsequent sensationalist click bait conspiracy versions.

 I have no doubt there are widescale performance abuses particularly in the larger clubs, incl lfc,  but the evidence here,  for me,  isn't strong. 

I'm not so sure. Research it in detail, particularly what happened at Dortmund. Both teams have followed the same performance patterns. 

The interview with Salah and Henderson is interesting, as is the fact that Salah improved dramatically when he joined Liverpool. 

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