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VAR as a tool to support a referee when they genuinely need a second look is fantastic.
(Does the VAR **** give an opinion?) rather the ref should be able to watch it back maybe twice and form  his own opinion. Not that of any assistant, and like i say he should get 2 watch backs then make an opinion.

In its currant state VAR IS the ref and its game breaking.

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5 minutes ago, Yellow Wal said:

Brighton v Leicester and VAR at it again.

Surely there must be a better way!

Yep, there is. Go back to proper reffing. If the ref has a bad game you can call him a  w⚓ and then forget a about it later. 

Seeing a these ridiculous decisions made after minutes of scrutiny on screens in forensic detail makes it even worse!

VAR might help to review a red card and we already have great goal line technology. But we have linesmen for offsides and well paid refs for decisions.

The end of VAR too would mean the end of 'checking the club badge'.

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3 hours ago, Don’t be Krul said:

If it reduced the number of terrible tackles, why did Van Dijk stay on the pitch yesterday? Ref gave a yellow, VAR looked at it and agreed. Not so sure myself

Before VAR there would have been more terrible tackles, and fans outraged when players were punished for dangerous tackles, these days there are far less of them, and good riddance.

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1 hour ago, sonyc said:

Yep, there is. Go back to proper reffing. If the ref has a bad game you can call him a  w⚓ and then forget a about it later. 

Seeing a these ridiculous decisions made after minutes of scrutiny on screens in forensic detail makes it even worse!

VAR might help to review a red card and we already have great goal line technology. But we have linesmen for offsides and well paid refs for decisions.

The end of VAR too would mean the end of 'checking the club badge'.

Plus a review of the offside rule.

How can a linesman tell which of five players in the box are onside or offside if they don't have help. How can he tell which of those played or attempted to play the ball.

As dear Mr Clough said; " If a player is not interfering with play then he shouldn't be on the pitch"

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13 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

Before VAR there would have been more terrible tackles, and fans outraged when players were punished for dangerous tackles, these days there are far less of them, and good riddance.

I can never remember so many bad tackles that go unpunished as there are these days. How can somebody tackle for the ball when they are only intent on standing on their opponents foot or ankle? It happens all the time and, as with van Dijk, VAR sees this and does not punish it.

Perhaps referees do not understand the game as much as those who have played, it in those circumstances. Is football the only top sport that does include ex-players in officiating duties?

 

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Another one in the United game, if that's a foul on Eriksson then the game's totally gone as a contact sport. 

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Arsenal goal ruled out for a foul in build up, hy VAR. With enough angles it was just about a foul, maybe, but should it be watched 50 times by VAR and then by the on field ref another 30 times desperately trying to rule it out?

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Good old big ears . SPOT ON. Gary

Match of the Day host Gary Lineker stated: 'I say this as a @LCFC fan: these VAR decisions are sucking the life and joy out of the game.'

on BrightonV leicester game.

 

SUCKING THE LIFE AND JOY OUT OF THE GAME.

 

Edited by Mengo

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9 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

going to a game of football is so passé these days when you can do what a proper football fan does and watch from Indonesia and pretend you are a fan or, indeed, have any idea what’s going on.

Good to know I’m not a proper fan because I now live on the opposite side of the planet.

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The ones that pi55 me off is when an offside is given because the heel or toe is beyond the defender when it has no bearing whatsoever on that goal being scored - so much for the advantage be given to the attacking side - that seems to have gone out the window since VAR - hate it with a passion 

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People now seem to be hooking onto this mantra that VAR isn't the problem, it's the people running it. No, it isn't. VAR is the problem. It has no place in the game and should be binned. It undermines the referee, slows the game down and it has been shown that it doesn't help to get decisions consistently correct. No, it doesn't even out over a season either.

Watch again Conor Coady's celebration for Everton. Didn't count. Or Mac Allister's screamer for Brighton. Didn't count. Or Cornet's last second equaliser for West Ham. Didn't count. All ridiculous decisions - decisions which sensible, rational people who know the game and who are not placed under ludicrous pressure do not make. Refs are being hung out to dry - it isn't their fault they are allowed to officiate in games worth millions when they are paid peanuts in comparison to the 20-year-olds calling them names and don't even have to prove their ability beyond a simple bleep test or two and an occasional assessment by a dinosaur.

Better referees are what we need. Full time, preferably ex-professional players or coaches, paid properly (i.e. average for the leagues they work in), with minimum physical assessments and mental awareness testing, psychological evaluations, compulsory retirement at 50 etc. Let them explain their decisions; let them give interviews and go on MOTD.

Unfortunately, VAR is cheaper and more entertaining for Sky/BT/Amazon.

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VAR is a problem for another reason - it leads to two-tier officiating and the laws being written to "suit it", whilst being absolutely impractical at grassroots level that doesn't have VAR.

Put the offside rule back to how it was in the 90s. If you're ahead of the second-last defender when the ball is played forward, you're off. Doesn't matter if you're on the other side of the pitch, you're off and its blown. Otherwise, all you're doing then is making it harder for the assistant referee. As Brian Clough said, "if he's not interfering with play, what's he doing on the pitch?". This also has the benefit of being more likely to get the assistant to flag straight away as (s)he should just be looking for the offside position when the ball is played.

Another problem with VAR is a propensity to referee tackles by freeze-frame instead of holistically. If a player's going in with a last-ditch tackle, it is possible that they unintentionally hit an opponent hard out of desperation instead of malice. Standing on an opponent doesn't look good on a freeze-frame at all, but if we take the Giannoulis one versus Bournemouth, there was no way that had any malice on it, nor indeed much force for that matter. He was a split-second late on an opponent who absolutely piled in and got red-carded for missing it by a fraction of a second to a player who was on the ground, not at knee height or anything like that.

I actually think we'd solve a lot of simulation problems if we ditched penalty kicks as well, and turned them into penalty corners like in hockey instead.

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1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

I actually think we'd solve a lot of simulation problems if we ditched penalty kicks as well, and turned them into penalty corners like in hockey instead.

The Athletic produced a fantastic article about how ridiculous penalties are earlier this year:

https://theathletic.com/3161748/2022/03/04/penalties-are-too-generous-a-reward-we-have-a-solution-and-it-involves-running?source=user-shared-article

Definitely worth a read for whoever has an account. 

Basically, a penalty kick has a 78% chance of a goal, which is insanely high compared to the possibility of a goal had the foul not been commited, in a sport where there are only about 2.8 goals per game anyway. Some of the statistics in the article make you wonder why penalties have existed in their current form for so long.

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15 hours ago, Daz Sparks said:

VAR is without doubt THE worst single thing introduced to football in my lifetime. 

 

In one way I would have to disagree here. Given how much money is on the line with winning and losing in the PL, and the refs being unable to keep up with the speed of the game, VAR is an extremely valuable tool for refs to call upon. Unfortunately, as Lakey has mentioned earlier in this thread and many others previously, it is simply being applied in the worst possible way. For that reason I would actually agree with your post.

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8 hours ago, Yellow Kiwi said:

Good to know I’m not a proper fan because I now live on the opposite side of the planet.

I ignored that moronic post Kiwi. I've spent most of my life abroad, in the RAF, and then private industry. Now retired with my wife of 40 years in the Philippines. I get to matches when I visit up if I am able to, but to go to a match from here is at best a four day trip and would cost the best part of £3,000. But obviously I am not a "proper" fan.

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The issues with VAR are deep rooted and symptomatic of wider issues with how the game is officiated in this country; possibly reflecting how (on a societal level) 'authorities' become entrenched in a culture of impunity and a duty to 'look after their own'.

Ultimately there's a total lack of transparency and accountability. To me it's all totally backwards. Why on earth do we start from the ridiculous assumption that the on field officials can see and process enough information in real time to make perfect decisions?

This overriding paradigm of unrealistic expectations leads to the perverse outcomes we're seeing. Ridiculous decisions come because the people making them are so far removed from the game.

VAR should be implemented like the third umpire in cricket. The referee should ask for help and we should hear everything that is said. Captains should be able to 'appeal' for a review of any incident, and have a limited number of unsuccessful reviews.

Offside should be automated using real-time tracking technology with far higher resolution than TV cameras currently have. There should be a buffer of 6 inches with no offside given unless the player is at least that far beyond the defender.

A massive factor is the way referees are viewed and treated throughout the sport. Rather than being respected and supported, they are vilified and isolated. Ultimately it means we only see a certain type of referee actually make it to the higher levels: having a thick skin becomes more important than their ability to officiate so we only really encounter the arrogant and obtuse because no one else sticks it out.

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If this thread accurately reflects the opinion of fans in general, (and my personal feeling is that it does), it shows just how much fans hate VAR, sometimes for the way it is being implemented, but often at a conceptual level.

Will the authorities do anything? No. Do they care what the 'legacy' fans think? No.

We'll eventually get a 'review' which will be a whitewash, suggest a minor tweak or two, and things will continue exactly the same as they are now.

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I think if you dig just a little with the PGMOL you are going to find some serious stuff going on there. Criminality, fraud. All sorts.

VAR should be suspended immediately pending a massive review into the state of refereeing in this country 

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7 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

The Athletic produced a fantastic article about how ridiculous penalties are earlier this year:

https://theathletic.com/3161748/2022/03/04/penalties-are-too-generous-a-reward-we-have-a-solution-and-it-involves-running?source=user-shared-article

Definitely worth a read for whoever has an account. 

Basically, a penalty kick has a 78% chance of a goal, which is insanely high compared to the possibility of a goal had the foul not been commited, in a sport where there are only about 2.8 goals per game anyway. Some of the statistics in the article make you wonder why penalties have existed in their current form for so long.

Exactly. Penalties are a cheater's charter where the odds of getting an advantage are far higher than the risks posed by simulation. By the same token,  you also get referees being hesitant to penalise much at set pieces despite all the grappling and holding going on as by definition, you're giving a free, unpressured shot at goal which is very likely to go in.

A penalty corner would be a reasonable chance that suits those who train their set-pieces diligently, but gives the defending team a chance.

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Simply revert back to what it used to be.  

The rules still state, if I am not mistaken,  'the referee's decision is final'. Then let the referee make the decisions, aided by his assistants, and let those decisions be final whether they are right or wrong. 

Nothing in life is 100% right every time.  Why should football be any different? And,  just as in life you have to accept some bad breaks and just get on with  it,  so you should in football.

Everyone makes mistakes, please don't put referees above that where they mustn't make mistakes. 

As long as the officials are true and fair,  players, fans and everyone connected with the game should accept the decisions.

You would quickly find out who the better referees were and they would get the better games.

As I was always told when growing up with the game, even if the referee is wrong,  he is right. 

Accept it and get on with it. 

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It's not so much VAR it's the incompetent people running and officiating it. Other sports use it well, I don't know why football can't be the same. Maybe football officials are just inherently thick or devoid of commonsense.

Interesting people are criticising Hooper for blowing too early and not allowing play to continue, effectively allowing VAR to overrule the lino. Seems a bit of a contradiction really.

It needs sorting though as officials are getting worse year on year and are simply not good enough. On the otherhand VAR is clearly not fit for purpose.

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Im more interested in the man in the shadows who is standing behind the VAR operative. His name is Gregor, he wears a long dark leather overcoat, he works for a man who has a large yacht in Sardinia, who has links to a Far Eastern Betting syndicate. He stands in the background behind the operative & speaks softly while screwing on the silencer to his 9 mm pistol. "You haf nice wife & Cheeldren, I seen them go to school in mawning, it woood be a shame not to say goodbye to them, eh. Now........ do the right theeng, & make shuur eet izzz offside. Comprendez Amigo.?" Ashen faced, the operative makes a few computer enhanced adjustments. Gregor slips a large envelope onto the desk, turns & walks out the door. "Very good my special friend, I weeel be seeing you"

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6 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

It's not so much VAR it's the incompetent people running and officiating it. Other sports use it well, I don't know why football can't be the same. Maybe football officials are just inherently thick or devoid of commonsense.

Interesting people are criticising Hooper for blowing too early and not allowing play to continue, effectively allowing VAR to overrule the lino. Seems a bit of a contradiction really.

It needs sorting though as officials are getting worse year on year and are simply not good enough. On the otherhand VAR is clearly not fit for purpose.

Quite agree although I do wonder if VAR has simply made the job far harder which was definitely not what was intended. What is clear is that the system works, it's just the people using it who consistently get it wrong. It appears to work without problem in the rest of Europe. 

The way it's used is also questionable. In the Brentford game there was an offence on the edge of the penalty area which was very clear but the review resulted in no penalty. I assume that was because the offence was just outside the area but why on earth not give the free kick? It doesn't make sense and in that particular instance surely it would have helped the situation if a free kick was given on the edge of the box? 

I still haven't seen the Newcastle mistake but the Chelsea one was laughable. That wasn't the fault of VAR, it was the fault of the person using it. It's a common misnomer that these things even themselves out over a season. From what I've seen this season, VAR has already affected the result of 2 West Ham games. I'm no fan of theirs but eventually a team will go down because of a mistake. In fact, thinking back to a game at Villa Park it could be argued that has already happened. 

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VAR is killing the game, it does not work in football and football has to keep changing the rules just to make VAR work. I can't think of any situation VAR works well. If they really use clear and obvious it would only apply in about 1% of cases. 

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John O’Neill (John Fashanu)

Paul Elliot (Dean Saunders)

Matt Holmes (Kevin Muscat)

Alfie inge-Haaland (Roy Keane)

All lost their careers and aspirations due to horrendous challenges.

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