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CANARYKING

First 25 minutes of the second half

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30 minutes ago, Chelm Canary said:

Is this thread and some of the following posts satire?

It's an honest question. 

A 3 nil home win and topping the table. I actually don't know. If it isn't satire,  then I think there's some on here would benefit from some intensive therapy.

In honesty we haven't seen us play well for a full 90 minutes perhaps since we turned Huddersfield inside out under Farke. Not sure what the issue is but it would be nice to iron it out. Better teams might have got a goal or two in that patch and but for poor finishing and a good savesl from Krul might have been the case today. Thankfully we have such rich quality on the bench it was never really an issue today

Edited by AJ

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I’m a full time paid up member of the happy clapper society, rose tinted, but first 20 minutes of 2nd half was dire. 
Happy tonight but not sure if we can get away with this and succeed by next May. 

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2 hours ago, AJ said:

In honesty we haven't seen us play well for a full 90 minutes perhaps since we turned Huddersfield inside out under Farke. Not sure what the issue is but it would be nice to iron it out

So we expect expect to iron out the problems and then win 7-0 every week?

In all my years on this forum, these are some of the most entitled and craziest comments I have read.

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Yes Norwich couldn't barely string two passes together for a while in the 2nd half but the factors like the very hot weather for football, taking the foot of the pedal cause Coventry were very limited and the fluidity of the team still nowhere near peaking were relevant!

 

Some fans need to get rid of Eutopia ideas that we are going to play great every minute of every game and take of the yellow and green rose tinted glasses about previous promotion successes. We had many single goal victories in the two Farke title winning seasons and the two Lambert promotion seasons and quite a lot of games where we wern't at our best.  

 

I always use our last game at Portman Road early in the 2018/19 title winning season as a perfect example! - We looked poor and struggled to get a draw against the worst Ipswich team in living memory who finished rock bottom that season. - Any Norwich fan at that game walking out that day who'd of suggested that Norwich would go onto finish top would of had their sanity seriously questioned!

 

The Championship is a grind and many games you have to just find a way of winning. A strong squad for the Championship with the right attitude will achieve this and then later of on in the season with confidence levels high and the team all on the same wavelength performances will improve! 

Edited by kingsway
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7 hours ago, Chelm Canary said:

So we expect expect to iron out the problems and then win 7-0 every week?

In all my years on this forum, these are some of the most entitled and craziest comments I have read.

No, we don't need to win 7-0 every week which is a ludicrous take from my comment, but we do need to try and play well for a full 90 minutes. As said in my previous post and by others on here, that 25 minutes bad patch could have led to a draw or defeat against stronger teams so it's hardly a crazy or entitled comment. 

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41 minutes ago, AJ said:

No, we don't need to win 7-0 every week which is a ludicrous take from my comment, but we do need to try and play well for a full 90 minutes. As said in my previous post and by others on here, that 25 minutes bad patch could have led to a draw or defeat against stronger teams so it's hardly a crazy or entitled comment. 

Perhaps our standards don’t drop against stronger teams in the same way? 

It is crazy, IMO, that Smith gets slaughtered for not winning, despite good performances early in the season, to being criticised for winning but not performing well, to some new hybrid of being questioned when his side win, play well, but have a dodgy 20 minute spell!?!

Judge the performance on 90 minutes. But ultimately, judge the Smith and the team on results. Yesterdays was a 3 nil win. Enjoy it!

Edited by Creedence Clearwater Couto

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The fact is those who are now super pro-Smith are agitated so much about people bringing up shortcomings because they can see the weaknesses the rest of us can see, the shortcomings, the frailty at times that will be exploited by better teams and the denial stinks to high heaven.

You can celebrate a victory, you can celebrate goals, I did, but we’ve been in this position so many times you can feel the weakness that’s there. Should we just ignore those weaknesses because we beat Coventry?

Edited by The Real Buh

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13 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

As long as when we win there's negatives too we can all be happy. What's not to like...

🙃

 

 

13 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

As long as when we win there's negatives too we can all be happy. What's not to like...

🙃

 

I get you Nuttyo, we win , most are Happy!! Fortunately it wasn't a perfect performance , therefore those who like to criticise have a bone to chew on..most of the rest are happy!! That leaves Keith Scott , Big Vince, Rebate weirdo and a couple of other trolls  .

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26 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Dissent will not be tolerated

Dissent will, crass stupidity won't which is why you have been outed Buh. 

Too thick to realise YOU are the joke.

Jog on Lab Specimen Boy.

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Let’s look more objectively. It had a period of poor play after what was a very dominant first half. It is however huge progress on the previous two performances and the result shows the right score for me. The days where it all clicks are not weekly unless you look at the top end of the EPL. Other teams may well punish us when we step off it, but equally they may not and if a better team looks like they may actually start to exploit our lapse I think you’ll see Smith getting more urgent and animated and a more urgent response from the players. Again, maybe not but until it happens we can’t say. 

3-0 win with work to do, as there will always be and valid points made from many. Also worth noting g the fluidity of 60+ minutes and good form from Ramsey, Nunez and Pukki. Byram despite being injured a lot happy to throw himself in throughout and a real commitment from him to show and repay the faith in him. He is class imo. Not to forget, better hopefully to come too with key players return, whenever that is! 

Onwards and upwards. Smith still getting things right overall for me 

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1 hour ago, SwearyCanary said:

Let’s look more objectively. It had a period of poor play after what was a very dominant first half. It is however huge progress on the previous two performances and the result shows the right score for me. The days where it all clicks are not weekly unless you look at the top end of the EPL. Other teams may well punish us when we step off it, but equally they may not and if a better team looks like they may actually start to exploit our lapse I think you’ll see Smith getting more urgent and animated and a more urgent response from the players. Again, maybe not but until it happens we can’t say. 

3-0 win with work to do, as there will always be and valid points made from many. Also worth noting g the fluidity of 60+ minutes and good form from Ramsey, Nunez and Pukki. Byram despite being injured a lot happy to throw himself in throughout and a real commitment from him to show and repay the faith in him. He is class imo. Not to forget, better hopefully to come too with key players return, whenever that is! 

Onwards and upwards. Smith still getting things right overall for me 

Good comments and I agree there were some good positives. 

Here’s the BUT … To answer earlier points, I don’t think the negative comments are satire, certainly not from me. The majority of people I spoke to after the game shared the same view. Despite a 3-0 win and being top of the league, our performance in parts of the game particularly 2nd half was not good enough for when we come up against better teams.

We seemed genuinely clueless at times in terms of how to get down the wings. That nice triangular football we used to play where we would skin teams down the wings and make glorious crosses … instead we kept having to check back and when we were in crossing positions we often didn’t cross the ball. What’s the strategy here, walk the ball into the net?

Is it because we are missing a Hoolihan / Maddison creative person to get the ball to? Is it players not getting in position?

Homework for the team - wing play

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There is too many and too fast coming games in this league.

We come from hectic period to yesterday game and some really believe we can push and play at full speed this routine game all 90 Min!??

This is out of reality and some players really played too many games recently and same time hot weather 2 -0 at ht etc all too normal to be like that 2nd half.

Key is we are on great run and also transfer window closed so mood is great and have to play 2 at home next 3 games so really good period to consolidate out position !

Then international break will come we will regroup and back some injured players and all seems in control at the moment.

 

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14 hours ago, Chelm Canary said:

A 3 nil home win and topping the table. I actually don't know. If it isn't satire,  then I think there's some on here would benefit from some intensive therapy.

This is the problem when people nail their colours to the mast so early, I feel.

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3 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

The fact is those who are now super pro-Smith are agitated so much about people bringing up shortcomings because they can see the weaknesses the rest of us can see, the shortcomings, the frailty at times that will be exploited by better teams and the denial stinks to high heaven.

You can celebrate a victory, you can celebrate goals, I did, but we’ve been in this position so many times you can feel the weakness that’s there. Should we just ignore those weaknesses because we beat Coventry?

I’d be surprised if this was the case for any Norwich fan. 

You enjoy the banter though, fair play. Your online persona adds to the fun on here. 

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1 hour ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

I’d be surprised if this was the case for any Norwich fan. 

You enjoy the banter though, fair play. Your online persona adds to the fun on here. 

The ones like you that dance on the fence hold the club back.

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8 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Us pro-smith brigade are the reason the team you support are top of the league pal 🤭😉

Couldn’t quite say you support smith could you? Had the winky face as the get out clause.

you’ll be amongst the first to turn against him

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I think people need to differentiate. To say that there was a 20-25 minute spell in the second half when we were poor is not moaning. Its a statement of truth. Of course, its unreasonable just to post "crap" etc without any logical solution.

Of course we cannot expect to perform for a whole match. Or season. That is the truth as well.

 

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I got called out a little bit in the match thread for mentioning it but I’m surprised more people weren’t talking about that phase of the game - or at the very least questioning what on earth the crowd were doing if they weren’t wondering about the team.

Firstly - I’m not a Smith outer at all and have been posting varying favourably / positively all through this season (even when we were bottom), so please don’t just pigeon hole me as some nut trying to find a cloud to shout at.

The first half was really strong, we looked head and shoulders better than Cov and pretty much overwhelmed them across all areas of the pitch. The number of errors we forced them into was very satisfying. I don’t think we will get many sides trying to approach a game at Carrow Road like that again as they couldn’t beat our press and had no outlet- unless you’re counting the stands.

I knew Cov weren’t going to be as bad second half but I certainly wasn’t expecting whatever it was I saw from us at the same time.

I totally respect that we can’t outright dominate for 90 minutes and we can’t maintain a high intensity press / high risk possession game too. But I do think there’s a better middle ground between this and what we saw yesterday when we’re 2 goals up. There’s dropping down a gear or two and then there’s popped the gearstick out into neutral and let the car coast along for 25/30 minutes. And it really started to show in the players as they totally lost their edge and sharpness. It almost looked like they were trying to play out the last 45 minutes like it was the last 2 minutes of injury time!

The same sort of thing happened against Huddersfield, where we ended up holding on somewhat against 10 men when it really felt like we should’ve been way out of sight.

Craziest part was when fairly large pockets of people around me actually started booing after a poor Omobamidele pass. I could not believe what I was hearing at 2-0 up - although I did share some feelings of confusion by how much we’d fallen asleep. Clearly a ridiculous reaction from the crowd, but - rightly or wrongly - it does give some measure as to just how bizarre the tail off in performance was. 

A 2 goal lead is pretty famously NOT a secure lead and I can’t help but think our ‘game management’ style of basically trying to keep hold of the ball along the back line at a snail’s pace, with no real desire to take any risks whatsoever, is asking for trouble a little bit. Fortunately when the subs came back on it handed us back some initiative and a third goal pretty quickly.

However it does leave me somewhat concerned if we are to carry this type of mentality into the toughest games this year. I genuinely don’t think we can afford such a slump against a top-6 or even top half side as the momentum will swing too far the other way. Definitely something to think about IMO.

I’m loving the results and that we’re top of the league but feel there’s still more for this team to give, and I think we’re going to need to get there if we’re going to finish in the top two this year! 

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17 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

I didn't say that. We clearly started 4-3-3 and the tempo we played it at............

Thats interesting because  thought we started off 4-2-1-3 with Ramsey playing the forward one of the midfield three.

Be that as it may i thought Coventry were shocking.Its been a long time since our back 4 had so much room and time on the ball especially in the first half.Aarons had the freedom of Carrow Road on the right.

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1 hour ago, The Real Buh said:

you’ll be amongst the first to turn against him

That's quite prophetic. Did you mean "You'll", or perhaps "You'd" ? 

You need to allow for the timeline where Smith wins this league and takes us to European places and gets ripped away by a larger club, of course! 🙂

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21 hours ago, CANARYKING said:

City came out after the break and looked bereft of ideas, gave the ball away, couldn’t find a team mate, absolutely terrible, and what did Smith do………..sweet fa, just stood there with his hands in his pockets. Alex Neal or Daniel Farke would be going berserk on the touch line. Come on Smiith let’s have a bit of passion.

When did Farke ever go berserk on the touchline?

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1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think people need to differentiate. To say that there was a 20-25 minute spell in the second half when we were poor is not moaning. Its a statement of truth. Of course, its unreasonable just to post "crap" etc without any logical solution.

Of course we cannot expect to perform for a whole match. Or season. That is the truth as well.

There's a couple of issues I would say with stating it as "poor". 

I know I am probably teaching you to suck eggs here, but when I was coached we were told to consider three moments in games. When you have the ball, when the opposition has the ball and the transition between the two / dead ball situations.

No team is going to have 100% possession, you'd have to be playing kids or non professionals for that sort of possession stat to occur. Man City, for example, won 9-0 against Forest with around 75% of the possession. Therefore, they still have to be good off the ball to ensure that 25% doesn't amount to anything.

There will be moments in games where Norwich don't get hold of the ball, struggle to keep hold of the ball - the most important bit is we play as well without the ball as with it. That is what has let us down in our premier league campaigns. We could be powderpuff in attack and then, as a team, not be strong enough to hold back attacks. Usually due to the issues with CM we have discussed at massive length.

So for me, poor means both on and off the ball. I think they had all of two real goes at us, one was rightly ruled off-side. 

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It was interesting watching Todd and Byram playing down the left in that period. They had zero understanding and Todd kept drifting in field leaving Byram with no pass up the line. We improved a lot when Onel came on and Todd moved centrally. I didn’t think he had a great game whilst playing wide. 

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I guess it's all about expectation. Moaning about 25 minutes in a 3-0 win when the other 65 were pretty good shows where we are. In 2018-19 the expectation was almost zero. At 1-0 down away to 1p5wich we were pretty low in terms of what we'd be happy with. Everything after that was a bonus. Even in the first Farke visit to the EPL we knew we hadn't a prayer but that some of our youngsters would be up for it. Then behind closed doors in 20-21 we managed to squeeze out some results in the early part of the season to set us up for blowing everyone away as the confidence kicked in.

Last season it all came crashing down. Expectation was that we could compete, but we didn't. Now, the expectation is that we are going to walk the Championship again. Yet we all know it just doesn't work like that. Expecting to win every game by 5 or 6 is only going to lead to some serious disappointment.

2 points a game average will see us in the top two. That's where we are. I don't care who we play, whether they are contenders or at the bottom. Get an average of 2 points a game and we'll be promoted.

If we hit that target, I can forgive them having the occasional bad period. Especially in games we win 3-0.

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2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

It was interesting watching Todd and Byram playing down the left in that period. They had zero understanding and Todd kept drifting in field leaving Byram with no pass up the line. We improved a lot when Onel came on and Todd moved centrally. I didn’t think he had a great game whilst playing wide. 

That is also the issue with Byram at left back- he'll also naturally want to go onto his right foot. For Giannoulis or McCallum having Cantwell come inside actually creates more space for them to overlap. 

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3 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

It was interesting watching Todd and Byram playing down the left in that period. They had zero understanding and Todd kept drifting in field leaving Byram with no pass up the line. We improved a lot when Onel came on and Todd moved centrally. I didn’t think he had a great game whilst playing wide. 

Exactly right, and what I meant by the team needing to practice wing play.

Not only this, it seemed like it was just Cantwell and Byram on the wing, there needs to be support of 2 or 3 other players to be able to get those triangular moves going. 

The coaching needs to be about how the rest of the team needs to support the full back and winger when the ball goes to the wing.

I agree that Cantwell and Byram didn’t combine well, and that needs to be worked on, but the rest of the team need to support them.

Same on both wings

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