Winners and Losers v Birmingham

[king canary 7,577]

Probably our worst performance of the season but a cracking result. Feel a bit light on the winners but here goes...

Winners

Onel Hernandez- faced some (valid) criticism over his lack of end product and still may be better suited to being a sub but a last minute winner can't be argued with, especially taken that coolly. Also unlucky not to get an assist after some uncharacteristically poor finishing by Pukki.

Byram- the team looks much better with an actual fullback in there, even if his final ball was lacking at times. If he can stay fit he can hold the fort until Dimi and McCallum return.

Dean Smith's substitutions- again, subs changed the game and played a key part in getting us back into it.

Those of us who said this was a poor league- we've not got going yet but we're second and have won 4 on the bounce. There are some scrappy teams in this league but eventually our depth of quality will win out over teams.

Losers

Dowell & Sinani- all three of our attacking midfielders got hauled off after an hour v Sunderland but only Onel was left riding the pine. Neither of these two did anything to justify the reprieve though, phoning in completely anonymous performances and both were deservedly hooked after an hour again. If either start v Coventry it'll be a big surprise.

Aaron Ramsey- after some promising flashes from the bench he got a start in his home city but didn't grab it by the scruff of the neck. He's only 19 so inconsistency is to be expected but can have no complaints if he's back on the bench on Saturday.

Marcelino Nunez- after a white hot start to his time in England he's had a couple of difficult games. Gets credit for never hiding and always looking to make things happen but too often tonight his radar was off. Too many overhit balls or misplaced flicks that, against better opposition, may have cost us. Still easily the most creative of our starting midfield though.

Dean Smith's team selection- surprising to see just the two changes after the poor first hour v Sunderland and those choices could have cost us today. Luckily the strength in depth saved us but Smith has to work out his best XI soon. I said after Sunderland he needs to find a way of getting Sargent and Pukki on together and that remains the first order of business but close behind is how to get more out of Max Aarons in attack. 

Championship referees- I really don't like blaming refs but it is kind of amazing we've yet to have a penalty considering some of the stonewallers we've had this season. Add Sargent being tripped to the Byram pull and Aarons kneecapping we've seen in recent games. It really has to change.

 

[sonyc 5,488]

Nice points KC.

I would add Omibamidele surely - a Winner tonight. Huge desire to get that equaliser. 

Agree about Nunez but his FK did set up the goal because Ruddy couldn't claim it.

[Robert N. LiM 4,237]

Team spirit was the big winner tonight.

 

[Midlands Yellow 3,924]

What a fantastic photo, the passion has returned.

[mrD66M 99]

4 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Team spirit was the big winner tonight.

 

Onel is not Norfolk bred, but is NCFC through and through. Talent, perseverance, humility, how he faces criticism but takes on board what he must, team ethic, spirited, energy. This guy cares. Even on his downsides he's one of us.

Milot, are you taking notes?

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

Nunez a loser?

Not for me. For sure, his radar was off at times, and he also had another couple of careless moments, but that work rate and those touches of class.

So many very good passes included in that all out effort, along with a stunner or two.

The free-kick led directly to our first goal. That was a stunning hit as well.

We have a real winner in that boy, surely, not a loser?

[PockthorpePete 331]

20 minutes ago, king canary said:

Probably our worst performance of the season but a cracking result. Feel a bit light on the winners but here goes...

Winners

Onel Hernandez- faced some (valid) criticism over his lack of end product and still may be better suited to being a sub but a last minute winner can't be argued with, especially taken that coolly. Also unlucky not to get an assist after some uncharacteristically poor finishing by Pukki.

Byram- the team looks much better with an actual fullback in there, even if his final ball was lacking at times. If he can stay fit he can hold the fort until Dimi and McCallum return.

Dean Smith's substitutions- again, subs changed the game and played a key part in getting us back into it.

Those of us who said this was a poor league- we've not got going yet but we're second and have won 4 on the bounce. There are some scrappy teams in this league but eventually our depth of quality will win out over teams.

Losers

Dowell & Sinani- all three of our attacking midfielders got hauled off after an hour v Sunderland but only Onel was left riding the pine. Neither of these two did anything to justify the reprieve though, phoning in completely anonymous performances and both were deservedly hooked after an hour again. If either start v Coventry it'll be a big surprise.

Aaron Ramsey- after some promising flashes from the bench he got a start in his home city but didn't grab it by the scruff of the neck. He's only 19 so inconsistency is to be expected but can have no complaints if he's back on the bench on Saturday.

Marcelino Nunez- after a white hot start to his time in England he's had a couple of difficult games. Gets credit for never hiding and always looking to make things happen but too often tonight his radar was off. Too many overhit balls or misplaced flicks that, against better opposition, may have cost us. Still easily the most creative of our starting midfield though.

Dean Smith's team selection- surprising to see just the two changes after the poor first hour v Sunderland and those choices could have cost us today. Luckily the strength in depth saved us but Smith has to work out his best XI soon. I said after Sunderland he needs to find a way of getting Sargent and Pukki on together and that remains the first order of business but close behind is how to get more out of Max Aarons in attack. 

Championship referees- I really don't like blaming refs but it is kind of amazing we've yet to have a penalty considering some of the stonewallers we've had this season. Add Sargent being tripped to the Byram pull and Aarons kneecapping we've seen in recent games. It really has to change.

 

Maybe the team selection was based around B'Hams rough stuff. Maybe it is not necessarily a case of our best team, but the one most suited to deal with opposition.

[repman 634]

4 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Nunez a loser?

Not for me. For sure, his radar was off at times, and he also had another couple of careless moments, but that work rate and those touches of class.

So many very good passes included in that all out effort, along with a stunner or two.

The free-kick led directly to our first goal. That was a stunning hit as well.

We have a real winner in that boy, surely, not a loser?

I think he just needs a bit of a rest to be honest, I was surprised when he didn't come off vs Sunderland and could have easily been hooked tonight too.

[astro 358]

The best place for Nunez to learn the English game is by playing. Subbing him off is not going to achieve that. I think he’s a winner, as he is showing that his head doesn’t drop despite playing some dodgy passes. He doesn’t stop trying 👍

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

19 minutes ago, PockthorpePete said:

Maybe the team selection was based around B'Hams rough stuff. Maybe it is not necessarily a case of our best team, but the one most suited to deal with opposition.

Not sure you can justify the selection of Dowell if it’s to combat a ‘rough’ opponent - quite the opposite surely?

[All the Germans 1,075]

18 minutes ago, PockthorpePete said:

Maybe the team selection was based around B'Hams rough stuff. Maybe it is not necessarily a case of our best team, but the one most suited to deal with opposition.

Wholly this. I hate the old cliche "never change a winning team" rubbish. You pick a team that is trying to win the next game, which could be completely different to the team required to win the previous game. 

However, I'm not certain that is actually what Smith did here...  I'll give him the benefit of the doubt...

[ron obvious 1,497]

11 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Nunez a loser?

Not for me. For sure, his radar was off at times, and he also had another couple of careless moments, but that work rate and those touches of class.

So many very good passes included in that all out effort, along with a stunner or two.

The free-kick led directly to our first goal. That was a stunning hit as well.

We have a real winner in that boy, surely, not a loser?

Agree with that, but he must give the opposition a little more respect, they're quite capable of reading his insouciant (haven't used that for a while) tricks & flicks & stealing the ball off him.

However, he's absolute class & I think has the character traits needed to correct his faults & improve. Looks a genuine PL p;ayer in the making to me.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,777]

Nuñez is a quality player, and looks a cut above when we play at home and/or control the game. But when we have to go to some of these grim places against teams who try to impose their physicality rather than play football, he can get taken out of his comfort zone. But once he gets to grips with that and figures out how to combat it, he'll **** all over this division. 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

2 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Nuñez is a quality player, and looks a cut above when we play at home and/or control the game. But when we have to go to some of these grim places against teams who try to impose their physicality rather than play football, he can get taken out of his comfort zone. But once he gets to grips with that and figures out how to combat it, he'll **** all over this division. 

If he has a better DM providing better cover then he will fly 

[Google Bot 3,256]

Overlooking the defensive block Nunez made first half, too. 

[TheGunnShow 5,925]

I'd have thought the winner was the set-piece coach. Really liked how polished Big Andy's equaliser was. Right off the training ground, that one. 😉

[Branston Pickle 3,632]

I think the problem is that ‘winners and losers’ is perhaps a bit too black and white, but it does get a discussion going.

I thought Nunez had a fairly good game, not everything came off but it never will.  He hit a decent free kick that resulted in the first goal, if a bit scrappy.

Team selection is also always going to be a bit subjective - even though they weren’t on top form at Sunderland I feel it would have been harsh to drop Sinani and Dowell, but maybe they do need a rest.

One weird thing - per the stats we committed 5 fouls but managed to get 4 bookings.  Dowell’s was very harsh, the others weren’t for fouls.  Aarons was particularly odd.

[Branston Pickle 3,632]

6 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I'd have thought the winner was the set-piece coach. Really liked how polished Big Andy's equaliser was. Right off the training ground, that one. 😉

Odd, isn’t it. I think we’ve defended them well this seeson, but definitely don’t look hugely threatening up the other end...

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Nunez is an interesting one. I can understand with Nunez as a ‘loser’ after tonight and Sunderland. I can also understand why that is harsh.

He still has shown plenty of touches of magic in these games, but he’s also been caught on the ball multiple times in very dangerous areas, overhit numerous long passes, tried to make thing too difficult and even misplaced some basic passes. 

After previously being pretty god-like he’s probably come down a peg or two, but that’s more a result of fan over-exuberance at the way he started than anything of his own doing. Let’s face it we all want him to be the new Emi don’t we? But it would be silly to think he could just fully integrate after moving to a totally new league / country / language / culture with a snap of a finger without any teething issues.

I have no doubt he will get a handle on things in time!

[sonyc 5,488]

27 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Nuñez is a quality player, and looks a cut above when we play at home and/or control the game. But when we have to go to some of these grim places against teams who try to impose their physicality rather than play football, he can get taken out of his comfort zone. But once he gets to grips with that and figures out how to combat it, he'll **** all over this division. 

I like how he seems to have found an outlet in Onel too. The last two games he has been looking for him. 

I also enjoyed Sara's brief 15 minutes tonight. Although he didn't make any telling passes there's a player there. 

So, all in all, I'm enjoying our South American trio!

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

43 minutes ago, astro said:

The best place for Nunez to learn the English game is by playing. Subbing him off is not going to achieve that. I think he’s a winner, as he is showing that his head doesn’t drop despite playing some dodgy passes. He doesn’t stop trying 👍

Wes was always guilty of the odd rubbish pass too. Funny how people forget that.

So, so happy for Onel.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Canary Wundaboy

[Mason 47 1,373]

30 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

If he has a better DM providing better cover then he will fly 

This is very relevant for me. The two games he's looked more average, two tough bruising away games where Gibbs hasn't been present for the majority. But he learns, contrast almost gifting a goal to Sunlan to the charge and tackle to keep it level. You can see he already has that top-level relationship with the ball.

I'd add a winner in Teemu Pukki, who isn't in goalscoring form right now and who (allegedly) might not want to to be here but has contributed vitally to goals in the last 3 games. A disgraceful player to bring on for the last 30- and the absolute professional.

[king canary 7,577]

10 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

I think the problem is that ‘winners and losers’ is perhaps a bit too black and white, but it does get a discussion going.

Maybe- the idea is to be a snapshot of the game just gone, not a judgement on the player as a whole. I put Nunez in the losers column this week as he wasn't quite up to his own high standards he's already set, particularly in how much he gave the ball away. He's still far and away our best midfielder right now though and I'd suggest these fluctuations in form are entirely understandable growing pains for a player who is adjusting to an entirely new style of football and is still only 22.

[dylanisabaddog 4,858]

11 hours ago, king canary said:

 

Dean Smith's team selection- surprising to see just the two changes after the poor first hour v Sunderland and those choices could have cost us today. Luckily the strength in depth saved us but Smith has to work out his best XI soon. I said after Sunderland he needs to find a way of getting Sargent and Pukki on together and that remains the first order of business but close behind is how to get more out of Max Aarons in attack. 

Championship referees- I really don't like blaming refs but it is kind of amazing we've yet to have a penalty considering some of the stonewallers we've had this season. Add Sargent being tripped to the Byram pull and Aarons kneecapping we've seen in recent games. It really has to change.

 

Agree with all of that. What bothers me with Smith is that he knows that Sargent is ineffective out wide but he persists with putting him there when he brings on Pukki. Pukki is a very clever footballer and I'd like to see at least one game where he's played deeper behind Sargent who we now know is an out and out centre forward and nothing else. 

With Max, is it simply that the opposition has him worked out? Or it may be that he needs better players around him to bring out the best. 

As for the refereeing, we could hope for VAR in the Championship but even some of the stone wall penalties we've already seen wouldn't have been given last season on a second look. Perhaps we're a big team in this division and we may get some of those decisions?

The main issue I have with the refs in this division is the minor professional fouls. I know we were awful against Cardiff but they were allowed to foul us every time we got in their half. Millwall was similar and those sort of teams just keep on doing it until the ref is strong enough to stop it. 

Edited August 31, 2022 by dylanisabaddog

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Interesting on twitter that Nunez actually got voted MOTM. 

Although no obvious standouts I would've felt that Omobamidele would've been a shout, didn't have a whole load to do defensively but was great in possession (anyone see him turn Hogan then flick the ball over Deeney in the second half to keep the ball?) and also scored the vital equaliser when it was needed. 

Hernandez also would've came close despite only playing 30 odd mins, once again showing far more than our other attacking midfielders / wingers in terms of direction and pace. The 4 times he got in behind he nearly put it on a plate for a Sargent header (inches away), nearly assisted again if it wasn't for Pukki totally fluffing his lines, played a neat ball back to Nunez on the edge of the box for a blocked shot and then most importantly scored the winner! Excellent performance.

Nunez was still one of our better players but probably did as much bad things as good things last night, yes the good was really good, but the bad was also really bad...

[jaberry2 550]

26 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Interesting on twitter that Nunez actually got voted MOTM. 

Although no obvious standouts I would've felt that Omobamidele would've been a shout, didn't have a whole load to do defensively but was great in possession (anyone see him turn Hogan then flick the ball over Deeney in the second half to keep the ball?) and also scored the vital equaliser when it was needed. 

Hernandez also would've came close despite only playing 30 odd mins, once again showing far more than our other attacking midfielders / wingers in terms of direction and pace. The 4 times he got in behind he nearly put it on a plate for a Sargent header (inches away), nearly assisted again if it wasn't for Pukki totally fluffing his lines, played a neat ball back to Nunez on the edge of the box for a blocked shot and then most importantly scored the winner! Excellent performance.

Nunez was still one of our better players but probably did as much bad things as good things last night, yes the good was really good, but the bad was also really bad...

Nunez needs to not over complicate the game from time to time rather than persisting on pinging passes 60 yards passes all the time. His vision is good, but 80% of the time needs to concentrate on short pass and move strategy to get higher up the pitch. I dont think he deserved MOTM but there wasnt too many inspiring performances. Pleasing to see Byram play well and get more minutes.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I think that any criticism of Nunez is unwarranted at the moment. Our current system of 4-3-3 doesn't allow for a sitting player. So when Nunez picks up the ball half the time there is no one available to pass to because the players are all over the place. He is an attacking player so is not looking to pass it back to AO or Hanley.

And last night, Ramsey let the RB Williams have a field day on the right and Nunez was have to drift across. And consequently when we got possession back, he was out of position so many times.

We need that forward looking player and I'm sure he can replace what Emi used to do.

[Bovril 218]

As other have said above, the introduction of Hayden will really let Nunez shine. It will also massively help Mclean/Gibbs, both of whom are more centre-mids rather than DMs. 

Alot depends on Hayden getting and then staying fit. If he does stay fit, then we'll have a very good team I suspect. If not, then we'll need to plod our way through matches as we're doing currently. 

I'd personally like us to forget about signing another LB on loan and instead get a proper DM on loan to cover for Hayden. 

[king canary 7,577]

1 hour ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Nunez was still one of our better players but probably did as much bad things as good things last night, yes the good was really good, but the bad was also really bad...

I think the biggest positive is that when he loses the ball he works his **** off to hustle back and win it. He reminds me of Emi in that respect that he combines some real skill with an impressive work rate, in contrast to Sinani or Dowell who can often be found jogging back. 

[hogesar 9,615]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think the biggest positive is that when he loses the ball he works his **** off to hustle back and win it. He reminds me of Emi in that respect that he combines some real skill with an impressive work rate, in contrast to Sinani or Dowell who can often be found jogging back. 

When Sinani is anonymous he seems to be anonymous in every respect. The same applies to Dowell but weirdly he still seems to be heavily involved in most goals we've scored this season, even when he's not played well.