Four wins, top of the league, but...

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

1 hour ago, Tony DaWonderful said:

With Farke you could see the style of play he was building and wanting for the players.

Yes indeed and so could the opposition which is why we had to come from behind in so many games during Farkes tenure in the Championship -- However exciting that was, his tactical naivety also ran into his brief flirtation with the Premier -- Go rewatch those Premier matches for absolute proof...

I've just rewatched Farkes first game for us in the Premier against Liverpool -- Anyone with a modicum of knowledge about football knew we were going to get annihilated that season and so we did.

I hugely enjoyed Farkes tenure, but Smiths team selections and tactics are not as obvious as the former which I believe puts us in good stead for promotion and Premier success.

[wheres my rebate gone? 85]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

So you're criticising Smith for making effective subs at the right times to win games?

I'm just asking because Farke was regularly criticised for not making subs and when he did, for them not making an impact.

Watching Smith Outers wriggle and writhe on this forum is going to become a fantastic hobby.

No, I’m answering the previous post, do keep up! 

[wheres my rebate gone? 85]

1 hour ago, Yellow Kiwi said:

I suggest you go back and look at the forum from August 2018 because you don’t have to look hard to find plenty of posts calling for Farke to be sacked. Even more posters saying the quality of most of the football was awful to watch at that time so I’m not sure what you are calling good football. Do you not recall all the reports of Farke being dumped if we lost to Ipswich? 
 

FYI Millwall game in January 2018 was when I first figured what Farke was trying to achieve. It didn’t make most of it less painful to watch for the rest of the season though because it appeared so rarely. Don’t get me wrong, Daniel got us playing the best football I’ve ever seen at the club but some do seem to have heavily rose tinted specs on or poor memories of the early days. 

I’m sorry it took you so long, I personally thought it was very obvious!

[wheres my rebate gone? 85]

54 minutes ago, chicken said:

We had 2/3s posession, overwhelmingly more attempts at goal, more corners and most independent reports have us down as 'deserved winners!

Was it pretty? No. So what? If you want pretty, try going to watch ballet maybe?

As I said, I thought (and most did), It was a poor performance and boring to watch, I actually watch football to enjoy it! 

[Rivvo 257]

7 hours ago, wheres my rebate gone? said:

Oh of course, he thought he would pick the wrong line up (yet again) and be saved by the subs for the crack, didn’t think of that 🙄, good point well made!!

It’s hardly lucky then is it? The point of my post was to point out that being able to use 5 subs in an effective, game changing way is not luck, his starting line up was surprising given the performance in the last game but for the second game in a row we’ve snatched an away win due to impact subs. I hope this isn’t his strategy for the whole season as I’d rather we were out of sight in games before the 70th minute. I remain to be convinced by Smith and I’m not engaged with him to the degree I was with Farke but even his critics should be able to see he has a clear game plan, and plan B.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Rivvo

[Virtual reality 706]

7 hours ago, Ian said:

What about the match-winning subs he bought on in the last couple of games?

 

Bringing Teemu Pukki on at championship level is hardly inspired management. As for Saturdays victory over Sunderland it was absolutely turgid and we had Hanley to thank for getting anything from the match. Going with that same 11 again was shown to be a poor decision that we needed quality from the bench to turn around. 

[wheres my rebate gone? 85]

32 minutes ago, Rivvo said:

It’s hardly lucky then is it? The point of my post was to point out that being able to use 5 subs in an effective, game changing way is not luck, his starting line up was surprising given the performance in the last game but for the second game in a row we’ve snatched an away win due to impact subs. I hope this isn’t his strategy for the whole season as I’d rather we were out of sight in games before the 70th minute. I remain to be convinced by Smith and I’m not engaged with him to the degree I was with Farke but even his critics should be able to see he has a clear game plan, and plan B.

So going by your comments, his “clear game plan” is the 150 minutes of dross we’ve witnessed in the last 2 games, then plan B is to bring our better players on…..in that case, genius!

[Rivvo 257]

It certainly looks like we are trying to contain teams and wear them down before bringing on Pukki/Cantwell etc, like I said I hope this tactic isn’t the default as it’s no fun to watch but it has got us 6 points out of 6.

[Ken Hairy 3,759]

19 minutes ago, Rivvo said:

It certainly looks like we are trying to contain teams and wear them down before bringing on Pukki/Cantwell etc, like I said I hope this tactic isn’t the default as it’s no fun to watch but it has got us 6 points out of 6.

Can't see Pukki or Cantwell buying into it as a  long term strategy either 

[Yellow Kiwi 20]

5 hours ago, wheres my rebate gone? said:

I’m sorry it took you so long, I personally thought it was very obvious!

I prostrate myself before your footballing genius. When did you have it figured out something special was on its way? Lots of people on here took a whole lot longer than me. I could start bumping threads if you don’t believe me. 

[wheres my rebate gone? 85]

39 minutes ago, Yellow Kiwi said:

I prostrate myself before your footballing genius. When did you have it figured out something special was on its way? Lots of people on here took a whole lot longer than me. I could start bumping threads if you don’t believe me. 

Thank you! 😜

[Tony DaWonderful 35]

6 hours ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

I hugely enjoyed Farkes tenure, but Smiths team selections and tactics are not as obvious as the former which I believe puts us in good stead for promotion and Premier success.

This is brilliant 👏🤣

Smith doesn't even know them himself which makes it all the more laughable! 🤣 🤣

 

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,243]

I feel like alot of our fanbase has been spoilt and "ruined" by the farke years, before he came and gave us sexy football, most would have been happy to keep scrapping wins out however they came (sexy or ugly) and be in the top 2. 

Now, it's not good enough, we need to be blowing teams out of the water every game and how dare we have to come from behind and how dare we have a couple of shìte performances but still win. 

The problem with this thinking is that we done the exact same under farke!! It wasn't all pretty and wasn't all our own way and wasn't us constantly blowing teams away, we had many many shìte performances but still managed to get the win somehow, someway, and THAT is a sign of a team with determination and willingness to keep fighting for the team and for their gaffer! 

My question would be.... 

If it wasn't smith in charge and it was, say Knutsen and we were still grinding out wins without playing like Barca prime, would they still be acting like spoilt children who want it all at once? 

Because it really does seem that there's some who are desperate for smith to fail and seems like they think we're winning again despite smith, not because he might actually be a decent coach, now yes I was one who wasn't sure about s&s but they are turning me around and I for one hope we continue our resurgence and win the league at a canter, back smith in the summer again and then give the PL a blöody good crack again (and stay up and pìss off Talkshïte) 

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

It wasn't a great performance, it wasn't great to watch, but we won and that's all that matters.

Applauding Smith for the substitutions is an interesting one. They were the right ones, but bringing on Hernandez and Pukki is hardly inspirational management tbh, I have more concern over the starting XI in the first place.

Tougher tests will come and we can only beat what's put in front of us. It's a good start but you only have to look at the standard and depth of our squad to put that into perspective. 

Smith's challenge will be keeping a very large squad happy and motivated.

 

[Yellow Fever 3,736]

I hadn't any particular problem with the starting eleven - pleased for Byram - keep a winning team the same in so far as is possible. Changing a winning team needlessly just pisses off the players who get dropped but did a shift.

That said - we need a bit more pace and aggression on the attack - guilty of not getting the ball in the box again. Sargent really didn't get any service. Onel clearly did enough to be a starter but Dowell & Sinani could do with a rest / disappointed / squad rotation.

[shefcanary 2,383]

Did we lose last night?

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

Did we lose last night?

You’d think so, with all the moaning on here.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,243]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

Did we lose last night?

Makes you wonder doesn't it 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Are the ones who are just totally happy with the result rather than criticising the performance, those that didn't see the game?

It was perfectly obvious that the first half showed how imbalanced the side was. Nothing on our left attacking wise and once again left to Aarons to roam up and down the right side. All the midfield players never keeping shape and all over the place. Yes we had moments of decent football but in the main, Birmingham were happy that we continued to keep giving them the ball.

Dowell, Sinani and Ramsey were totally out of it and the other eight left to do the job. We used to have three subs. Now we have five. You aren't wasting a thing by taking a player off after its obvious they are no use.

All the bullshine about second half impact means nothing. You go out to win the game as early as you can. Not presume bringing on three players after you go one down will turn it around.

Those who think Deano is doing a good job are welcome to their opinion. Many of us are of the opinion, he isn't the right man. I am waiting to be convinced what his style and tactics are. 4-3-3 doesn't reflect our strength as a squad. Midfield is where we can dominate other teams. We have a much better squad than most in this division, yet we are finding it hard to bury sides.

[king canary 7,577]

15 hours ago, Mr.Carrow said:

We're not playing poorly. We're playing against teams who have little interest in doing anything other than defend and hope to nick a goal on the break. Most of the goals conceded have either been silly lapses in concentration or just ridiculous bad luck like the Brum goal today (cross comes off someone's knee and lands on the toe of the only player Brum have in the box). We always look likely to nick a goal and have quality, dangerous subs to bring on.

Yeah I think this gets overlooked- Birmingham didn't create a great chance to score, 99 times out of 100 that cross deflects elsewhere, in this instance it landed perfectly for Hogan who took it very well. 

[hogesar 9,615]

7 hours ago, wheres my rebate gone? said:

So going by your comments, his “clear game plan” is the 150 minutes of dross we’ve witnessed in the last 2 games, then plan B is to bring our better players on…..in that case, genius!

The desperation to not be wrong having only come back to this forum to slate Dean Smith at every conceivable moment is hilarious.

Watching you wriggle and write on this forum, absolutely priceless.

[king canary 7,577]

6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

All the bullshine about second half impact means nothing

This is probably the stupidest sentence I've ever read on this forum.

The game lasts 90 minutes. The idea that making changes and improving the team in the second half 'means nothing' is just staggeringly wrong. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

14 hours ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

I honestly don’t understand how people are moaning? We’re not playing beautiful free-flowing football, but we’re winning games. We don’t look solid defensively, but we’re without any recognised LBs or defensive midfielders. We’re winning by odd goals but Pukki has yet to find the net this season. Come on people, this squad has the potential to absolutely storm this league and we’re 2nd after 7 games with 4 wins on the trot, 2 of them away from home! Let’s enjoy it a little!

Of course we all enjoyed winning. But you contradict yourself. in most of your post.

We’re not playing beautiful free-flowing football,

We don’t look solid defensively,

We’re winning by odd goals but Pukki has yet to find the net this season.

And you say enjoy it a little. I enjoyed the last half hour. The first hour was a turgid display of slow build up and no punch in their last third. And you say we have the potential to storm this league. We got caught out the first three games by playing the same way. We have improved our scoring and the Nunez addition has given us a calmness we didn't have. But the fact is the only team we have played in the top half, we lost to.

That doesn't mean we have a major problem. It means we aren't fulfilling the potential you speak of.

I wish those who can see no wrong would just accept that many of us like to comment on what we saw at the time. If the game is poor, say so. If its great say so. Don't have favourite players who cannot be questioned. If they are off form, say so. And yes we all love to win and I went to bed last night still happy.

 

[king canary 7,577]

4 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I wish those who can see no wrong would just accept that many of us like to comment on what we saw at the time. If the game is poor, say so. If its great say so. Don't have favourite players who cannot be questioned. If they are off form, say so. And yes we all love to win and I went to bed last night still happy.

Outside of the OP I don't see anyone who thinks we can do no wrong but we've got multiple people calling for the managers head, calling him thick, claiming we're winning despite him, while we sit second in the league on a run of 4 straight wins. 

It is less people can see no wrong and more that multiple posters (including yourself) seem incapable of seeing anything right about what Smith is doing despite the very obvious proof on the pitch and in our results that actually he's doing a pretty solid job.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

This is probably the stupidest sentence I've ever read on this forum.

The game lasts 90 minutes. The idea that making changes and improving the team in the second half 'means nothing' is just staggeringly wrong. 

I've read some of yours so touche. Stupid is as stupid does.

The game starts at 0 minutes not 60 or when you are a goal down. Virtually every post after the Sunderland game said Dowell and Sinani were poor and probably needed replacing.

So you were happy that they started last night and were replaced by better players even though Birmingham came close to making it two just after their goal. The impact starts from kick off. I do wonder what some people think football is really about.

Its fcuk all to do with impacts, xgs, masterclassesetc. Its about watching your team play as well as it can considering the opposition, cheering them on if you are at the game and coming home happy that you have enjoyed yourself and that you got out of the game what you wanted.

To paraphrase someone on her. If winning is all you want, go support Manchester City.

 

[king canary 7,577]

Just now, keelansgrandad said:

I've read some of yours so touche. Stupid is as stupid does.

The game starts at 0 minutes not 60 or when you are a goal down. Virtually every post after the Sunderland game said Dowell and Sinani were poor and probably needed replacing.

So you were happy that they started last night and were replaced by better players even though Birmingham came close to making it two just after their goal. The impact starts from kick off. I do wonder what some people think football is really about.

Its fcuk all to do with impacts, xgs, masterclassesetc. Its about watching your team play as well as it can considering the opposition, cheering them on if you are at the game and coming home happy that you have enjoyed yourself and that you got out of the game what you wanted.

To paraphrase someone on her. If winning is all you want, go support Manchester City.

 

Yes the game starts at 0 minutes but it also doesn't end at 45 minutes.

I understood the team selection as both Sinani and Dowell had been good in games pre Sunderland so I understood not dropping them based on one poor hour a few days before. As it turned out the decision was wrong but he changed it and it worked. The idea that that doesn't matter because the first hour wasn't great is nonsense. If he starts Sinani and Dowell against Coventry then I think he'd be rightly heavily questioned.

However as I said to you on the match thread, I've no doubt if he'd have dropped Dowell and Sinani and we'd struggled you'd have been criticising him for making too many changes, simply because you don't like him and like many on here you're too proud to say 'maybe I was wrong' so just double down on stupid stuff . 

[duke63 541]

Last season, We would have lost that game against Blues. 
 

DS has made us more solid and harder to roll over, something we desperately needed last season and will if we get promoted again. 
 

Free flowing football in the EPL just means the bigger clubs will turn us over too easily. A

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Outside of the OP I don't see anyone who thinks we can do no wrong but we've got multiple people calling for the managers head, calling him thick, claiming we're winning despite him, while we sit second in the league on a run of 4 straight wins. 

It is less people can see no wrong and more that multiple posters (including yourself) seem incapable of seeing anything right about what Smith is doing despite the very obvious proof on the pitch and in our results that actually he's doing a pretty solid job.

So last night was solid? My goodness what were you watching?

Smith said after Sunderland that it was time for £12M Sara to start. He was a sub again. When Teemu and Todd came on at Sunderland we looked far more solid. And the same when Kenny came into midfield from LB. Yet last night you could be any more anti Kenny if you tried.

The very obvious proof on the pitch last night was that something isn't right. We should never be in any trouble against a side like Birmingham. They had nothing except Williams raiding down our left. And we could have prevented that.

Some of you seem to think people enjoying commenting negatively. I say what I see. And last night I was treated to an hour's worth of tripe. And that some of you have a monopoly on loving the Club. Nothing is further from the truth.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yes the game starts at 0 minutes but it also doesn't end at 45 minutes.

I understood the team selection as both Sinani and Dowell had been good in games pre Sunderland so I understood not dropping them based on one poor hour a few days before. As it turned out the decision was wrong but he changed it and it worked. The idea that that doesn't matter because the first hour wasn't great is nonsense. If he starts Sinani and Dowell against Coventry then I think he'd be rightly heavily questioned.

However as I said to you on the match thread, I've no doubt if he'd have dropped Dowell and Sinani and we'd struggled you'd have been criticising him for making too many changes, simply because you don't like him and like many on here you're too proud to say 'maybe I was wrong' so just double down on stupid stuff . 

Not at all. And whether I like him as our coach is neither here nor there. He is there to make the decisions. And for me, he is making too many wrong ones. As I have said many times, 5 subs means you can correct your glaring mistakes early on.

[hogesar 9,615]

2 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yes the game starts at 0 minutes but it also doesn't end at 45 minutes.

I understood the team selection as both Sinani and Dowell had been good in games pre Sunderland so I understood not dropping them based on one poor hour a few days before. As it turned out the decision was wrong but he changed it and it worked. The idea that that doesn't matter because the first hour wasn't great is nonsense. If he starts Sinani and Dowell against Coventry then I think he'd be rightly heavily questioned.

However as I said to you on the match thread, I've no doubt if he'd have dropped Dowell and Sinani and we'd struggled you'd have been criticising him for making too many changes, simply because you don't like him and like many on here you're too proud to say 'maybe I was wrong' so just double down on stupid stuff . 

This is the most accurate sentence this forum has ever seen. I'll admit I've done the same although generally speaking you'll see in this example I was critical of sacking Farke for Smith for a few days before I bothered to undertake some more genuine research into his history and pretty sure stumbled upon a video of him giving a speech to Uni students. 

I also thought after the first two games that Sargent was going to offer absolutely nothing worthwhile at this level beyond his workrate and physicality. It turns out I appear to be wrong there too!

But because Smith is starting to prove doubters wrong, they're bending themselves backwards to try and make up reasons why they must still be right, despite evidence stacking up to the contrary.