For those wanting Smith out

[Worthy Nigelton 1,037]

7 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

I'm not missing any point, Villa are bigger than Brighton, they'll pay Potter more money and give him more to spend. I'm getting the whole top 6 thing, but if you ask me who's more likely to break into Europe, then it's Villa. Who are more likely to be playing Championship football the soonest, Brighton. 

I completely disagree. The money, maybe, I don't know. Who is more likely to break into Europe, either of them. Who is more likely to get relegated, either of them. Who is more likely to sack him after a dodgy 6 games, Villa.

Villa were in the Champs more recently than Brighton by the way, and Brighton are currently in the Champions League spots. What are you basing Villa's potential on? No top half finishes in over a decade, not European finishes, top half. No FA Cup since the 50s, no League Cup in nearly 30 years, no League title in over 40 years. They are not what you think they are.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,037]

3 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Arsenal weren’t willing to pay what Villa were apparently, so there was only one door for him to walk through.

Makes sense then.

[Ken Hairy 3,760]

Just now, Worthy Nigelton said:

I completely disagree. The money, maybe, I don't know. Who is more likely to break into Europe, either of them. Who is more likely to get relegated, either of them. Who is more likely to sack him after a dodgy 6 games, Villa.

Villa were in the Champs more recently than Brighton by the way, and Brighton are currently in the Champions League spots. What are you basing Villa's potential on? No top half finishes in over a decade, not European finishes, top half. No FA Cup since the 50s, no League Cup in nearly 30 years, no League title in over 40 years. They are not what you think they are.

I think we get it, we don't agree on this 😂. I don't care enough about Villa or Brighton to debate all night, let's just see what the next decade brings for them. 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,037]

3 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

I think we get it, we don't agree on this 😂. I don't care enough about Villa or Brighton to debate all night, let's just see what the next decade brings for them. 

Ha! You're right. And he may well go, but I think it would be a wrong move and a pointless one at that. Who cares anyway.

[BigFish 1,986]

22 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Aren’t trophies and history an objective measure? Villa have numerous titles; won the first division several times (admittedly the majority during close to their inception), ditto FA cups, they won the European cup as well.

No

Money is what counts. That is largely driven by name recognition (globally) amongst consumers who have no interest in trophies that were won before they were even born.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

26 minutes ago, BigFish said:

No

Money is what counts. That is largely driven by name recognition (globally) amongst consumers who have no interest in trophies that were won before they were even born.

Okay but Villa have spent quite a lot more than Brighton, I think they’ve got the 7th highest wage bill in the league - certainly toward the upper reaches. 

I think it’s semantics really, Villa are the bigger club - no question - but Brighton have surpassed them at this moment in time. That doesn’t mean Potter wouldn’t jump ship. Didn’t Lambert do the same thing to us, leaving us in 12th for a struggling Villa team…

I’d also still have ourselves down as a bigger club than Brentford and Bournemouth, despite the current gap between the sides. Or are those two clubs now ‘bigger’ than us to you too?

[KeiranShikari 1,410]

5 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

I'm sure you will be happy to hear that Gerrard will presumably be on the hunt for a new job soon 😉

You'd have to be living in fantasy land to think that a team looking to be progressive and move up the table in the Premier League would want somebody they sacked and has then gone on to fail for the next 9 months.

[percy varco 196]

Money to spend is a key factor. Alex Neill to Stoke. 
Smith was on the dole when Webbers plan didnt work out. Smith got the job. 
I dont see his stlye of play, we have made zero progress, Smith is just taking a wage. 
Smith out. 

[Canary dwarf 221]

40 minutes ago, percy varco said:

Money to spend is a key factor. Alex Neill to Stoke. 
Smith was on the dole when Webbers plan didnt work out. Smith got the job. 
I dont see his stlye of play, we have made zero progress, Smith is just taking a wage. 
Smith out. 

We've just won 3 league games on the bounce ,let's reserve judgement!🤔

[Branston Pickle 3,638]

55 minutes ago, percy varco said:

Money to spend is a key factor. Alex Neill to Stoke. 
Smith was on the dole when Webbers plan didnt work out. Smith got the job. 
I dont see his stlye of play, we have made zero progress, Smith is just taking a wage. 
Smith out. 

I really don’t get this fixation on there being no apparent style. It is pretty clear that we are still playing neat attractive football, but in a far more pragmatic way.  If you can’t ‘see’ it you’re either not going or you need an eye test.

When you bear in mind we have barely been able to play two of our main signings yet but have won 3 on the trot, to suggest there’s been “zero progress’ is utterly ridiculous.

[BigFish 1,986]

10 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I’d also still have ourselves down as a bigger club than Brentford and Bournemouth, despite the current gap between the sides. Or are those two clubs now ‘bigger’ than us to you too?

I have noticed over the years a certain chippiness amongst posters on here and amongst a small group of fans about club size & history. Fans of the big clubs are seen as arrogant and entitled, but when confronted by a perceived "smaller" clubs this same group acts with entitlement and arrogance. Two points illustrate this well; the reaction to the Binners "history" & the kind of comment above. It is objectively true that winning the League, the FA Cup & the UEFA Cup carries more esteem than one League Cup. Equally, it is objectively true that this carries no further benefit in achieving football success today. Same with Villa's success, it is difficult to picture them winning anything anytime soon. The point that is missed here that both Brentford and Bournemouth are large enough to get into the EPL,so the difference between them and us in "size" is insignificant in terms of footballing success with respect to us. I would expect both clubs to be relegated at least once in the next ten years. In that time i expect us to be promoted and quite possibly relegated again in the period. What is impossible to imagine is any of these clubs threatening the hegemony of the big six, kicking onto the next level or becoming established EPL team e.g. fear of relegation free.

[hogesar 9,618]

9 hours ago, percy varco said:

Money to spend is a key factor. Alex Neill to Stoke. 
Smith was on the dole when Webbers plan didnt work out. Smith got the job. 
I dont see his stlye of play, we have made zero progress, Smith is just taking a wage. 
Smith out. 

The style on the ball hasn't really drastically changed since under Farke and if you can't see that it says more about you than it does Smith.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

29 minutes ago, BigFish said:

I have noticed over the years a certain chippiness amongst posters on here and amongst a small group of fans about club size & history. Fans of the big clubs are seen as arrogant and entitled, but when confronted by a perceived "smaller" clubs this same group acts with entitlement and arrogance. Two points illustrate this well; the reaction to the Binners "history" & the kind of comment above. It is objectively true that winning the League, the FA Cup & the UEFA Cup carries more esteem than one League Cup. Equally, it is objectively true that this carries no further benefit in achieving football success today. Same with Villa's success, it is difficult to picture them winning anything anytime soon. The point that is missed here that both Brentford and Bournemouth are large enough to get into the EPL,so the difference between them and us in "size" is insignificant in terms of footballing success with respect to us. I would expect both clubs to be relegated at least once in the next ten years. In that time i expect us to be promoted and quite possibly relegated again in the period. What is impossible to imagine is any of these clubs threatening the hegemony of the big six, kicking onto the next level or becoming established EPL team e.g. fear of relegation free.

What ‘chippiness’ exactly?

I don’t disagree with your points, yes there’s probably as much chance of a Villa going down than a Brighton going down - in the short term. But I’d bank there being much more chance of Villa being able to bounce back and then more likely to be higher in the pecking order in the next 10 years and thereafter. They’re a much bigger club than Brighton, who are having their moment in the sun after being a lower league club most of their existence. I’m sure the vast majority of fans would agree.

I feel like you could use your same metrics to argue that Anthony Elanga is a bigger player than Ronaldo, or ‘there is no objective measure to suggest Ronaldo is bigger than Elanga’. I.e. who’s in the first team right now? Who’s more likely to stay in the team going forwards? Etc.

Its just a misuse of the word ‘bigger’. I don’t disagree about the short term implications you speak of but you can’t just ignore everything that has come before it and the definite pull that Villa still has over a club like Brighton.

[BigFish 1,986]

37 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

What ‘chippiness’ exactly?

I don’t disagree with your points, yes there’s probably as much chance of a Villa going down than a Brighton going down - in the short term. But I’d bank there being much more chance of Villa being able to bounce back and then more likely to be higher in the pecking order in the next 10 years and thereafter. They’re a much bigger club than Brighton, who are having their moment in the sun after being a lower league club most of their existence. I’m sure the vast majority of fans would agree.

I feel like you could use your same metrics to argue that Anthony Elanga is a bigger player than Ronaldo, or ‘there is no objective measure to suggest Ronaldo is bigger than Elanga’. I.e. who’s in the first team right now? Who’s more likely to stay in the team going forwards? Etc.

Its just a misuse of the word ‘bigger’. I don’t disagree about the short term implications you speak of but you can’t just ignore everything that has come before it and the definite pull that Villa still has over a club like Brighton.

I suspect we will never agree, which is fair enough, we can agree to disagree. I think money has changed football and the old ways are never coming back.

Edited August 29, 2022 by BigFish

[Jack Flash 13]

10 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

I really don’t get this fixation on there being no apparent style. It is pretty clear that we are still playing neat attractive football, but in a far more pragmatic way.  If you can’t ‘see’ it you’re either not going or you need an eye test.

When you bear in mind we have barely been able to play two of our main signings yet but have won 3 on the trot, to suggest there’s been “zero progress’ is utterly ridiculous.

For me I feel we have a Manager who has a Plan B and can change games. He is not fearful of dropping players either. I read somewhere that 72% of Villa fans in a recent poll would take him back. Our club is about to move up a notch in the setup and Smith/Shakey are the right fit at this moment in time. 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,037]

2 hours ago, BigFish said:

I have noticed over the years a certain chippiness amongst posters on here and amongst a small group of fans about club size & history. Fans of the big clubs are seen as arrogant and entitled, but when confronted by a perceived "smaller" clubs this same group acts with entitlement and arrogance. Two points illustrate this well; the reaction to the Binners "history" & the kind of comment above. It is objectively true that winning the League, the FA Cup & the UEFA Cup carries more esteem than one League Cup. Equally, it is objectively true that this carries no further benefit in achieving football success today. Same with Villa's success, it is difficult to picture them winning anything anytime soon. The point that is missed here that both Brentford and Bournemouth are large enough to get into the EPL,so the difference between them and us in "size" is insignificant in terms of footballing success with respect to us. I would expect both clubs to be relegated at least once in the next ten years. In that time i expect us to be promoted and quite possibly relegated again in the period. What is impossible to imagine is any of these clubs threatening the hegemony of the big six, kicking onto the next level or becoming established EPL team e.g. fear of relegation free.

Big Fish totally gets it. This is totally correct and also a lot of what is wrong with football.

[Danke bitte 965]

7 minutes ago, Jack Flash said:

For me I feel we have a Manager who has a Plan B and can change games. He is not fearful of dropping players either. I read somewhere that 72% of Villa fans in a recent poll would take him back. Our club is about to move up a notch in the setup and Smith/Shakey are the right fit at this moment in time. 

Well I’m Jumpin’ Jack Flash, you’re a gas gas gas!

[Worthy Nigelton 1,037]

1 hour ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

What ‘chippiness’ exactly?

I don’t disagree with your points, yes there’s probably as much chance of a Villa going down than a Brighton going down - in the short term. But I’d bank there being much more chance of Villa being able to bounce back and then more likely to be higher in the pecking order in the next 10 years and thereafter. They’re a much bigger club than Brighton, who are having their moment in the sun after being a lower league club most of their existence. I’m sure the vast majority of fans would agree.

I feel like you could use your same metrics to argue that Anthony Elanga is a bigger player than Ronaldo, or ‘there is no objective measure to suggest Ronaldo is bigger than Elanga’. I.e. who’s in the first team right now? Who’s more likely to stay in the team going forwards? Etc.

Its just a misuse of the word ‘bigger’. I don’t disagree about the short term implications you speak of but you can’t just ignore everything that has come before it and the definite pull that Villa still has over a club like Brighton.

Nobody is saying Villa aren't bigger, the point is they're not big enough for it to make any difference unless a Newcastle happens to them. There is a much greater chance they get relegated than make the Champions League places and virtually zero chance they win a cup so they're no different to Brighton in that regard or Wolves, West Ham etc etc.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,510]

17 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

To a club he supports in his home town ...yes

Whilst Brighton have started well , it wont last plus they keep seeling their best players from under him

Villa far better funded

The way Villa threw Smith out after a good few years of success and as a long-standing Villa fan, might act as a cautionary tale on going because he's a fan. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

33 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Nobody is saying Villa aren't bigger, the point is they're not big enough for it to make any difference unless a Newcastle happens to them. There is a much greater chance they get relegated than make the Champions League places and virtually zero chance they win a cup so they're no different to Brighton in that regard or Wolves, West Ham etc etc.

But I do agree with all of that! At least in the short term. I just think Villa are more likely to still be in the upper reaches of the premier league in 10 years time and onwards. Brighton are punching way above their weight at the moment and look secure for a number of years, but if they were to unravel they would be much more likely to default into their former place or just around the championship IMO - whereas I think Villa will always bounce back. Villa also have spent a damn sight more and will maintain a lot more financial power than Brighton at their current level.

Back to the original point - basically I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Potter left Brighton for Villa either. They are having a laugh with suggestions Poch though 🤣

Edited August 29, 2022 by Hank shoots Skyler

[Capt. Pants 4,196]

Smith was manager at Villa for pretty much exactly 3 years. I suspect the majority of Villa fans wouldn't really think it a step forward to reappoint him after a matter of months, especially if relegation is a concern and the reason why they sacked him in the first place.

Villa tend to go for British managers but I wonder if the time has come to look further a field.

 

[chicken 2,604]

22 hours ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

He has been told it’s top 6 or he’s out this season by the owners too apparently.

🤣🤣

Well, I would get the hell out of there if I were him. Top 6, hahahaha... 

[pete 318]

Smith back to Villa ain't gonna happen powers will not own up to a c0ck up.  Until our 3  recent league victorios I was definitely in Smith out camp, no evidence of plan A, B or whatever.  But those results have changed my mind.  Early performances were hampered by ineffective midfield, defensive errors and little attacking intent, the outlook is rosier, and I can see a change in the way we play.  Never felt Smith would have been sacked, meant Webber found out.  

[YellowCanary 11]

Potter needs to bide his time he’ll be the next England manager come the new year 

[Newtopia 517]

2 hours ago, YellowCanary said:

Potter needs to bide his time he’ll be the next England manager come the new year 

It would interesting to see what he wants to do next, I think Villa is not really a step up, it would be an opportunity for him, but is it a good enough one - if I was him, it wouldn’t be.  Sort of feel the same about Alex Neil, Stoke was an odd choice.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Newtopia

[percy varco 196]

9 hours ago, hogesar said:

The style on the ball hasn't really drastically changed since under Farke and if you can't see that it says more about you than it does Smith.

Yes I go, yes I can see. 
I totally agree that the style on the ball has not changed since Farke and Farke went as we were not progressing any further. 
I see zero progress under Smith. 
Smith said we could judge his team after preseason. I know some signings are injured but Smith is making no further progress from the point Farke got to, the point at which Farke got sacked. 
I think Farke would have us in the same position as Smith has us today, so zero progress. 
 

Smith out

[Nuff Said 5,089]

14 minutes ago, percy varco said:

Yes I go, yes I can see. 
I totally agree that the style on the ball has not changed since Farke and Farke went as we were not progressing any further. 
I see zero progress under Smith. 
Smith said we could judge his team after preseason. I know some signings are injured but Smith is making no further progress from the point Farke got to, the point at which Farke got sacked. 
I think Farke would have us in the same position as Smith has us today, so zero progress. 
 

Smith out

Give us one reason why that might be true, other than you’ve decided it.

[percy varco 196]

9 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Give us one reason why that might be true, other than you’ve decided it.

My opinion is that Smith has made zero progress, therefore we are at the same level, therefore Farke would have us in the same position. 
This is my reasoning, we will never know if it could be true but isn’t this the beauty of a discussion platform. 

[ricardo 7,347]

11 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Give us one reason why that might be true, other than you’ve decided it.

Any half decent manager should be able to do the same considering the resources we have available and the quality of opposition in this division. Anything less than promotion will be a failure IMO.

[hertfordyellow 460]

3 hours ago, YellowCanary said:

Potter needs to bide his time he’ll be the next England manager come the new year 

International football isn’t a great job for most coaches in their prime. They miss the daily nature of the job and competitiveness of league football. I think he would much rather Take the step up in Club football.