Do you actually want promotion?

[KernowCanary 214]

I want us to get promoted, the longer we are in this division, the harder it will get to return.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

No Hank, read the opening post. This is not about being sick of the PL it's about being sick of our club. I agree with your dad about the PL. I always have done. It was formed through greed so nobody should surprised at how it's ended up. But that's not what posters were asked to vote on. Or indeed what they have voted on.

The poll simply asks if you want promotion or not, it doesn’t attach any reasoning for why you might not. So if you simply hate the PL that much then I don’t see why you couldn’t vote ‘no’ here.

I went back to read the opening post and it’s not really any different to my post is it? TGMD talks of us failing to compete in the previous campaigns and our inability to compete financially. Two of the main reasons I talked of in my post.

Does he want us to lose every game? I don’t think so…

[pete 318]

Not fussed, in PL were simply not competitive.  I lke to see competitive action even if that means we play less competitve teams in what is a comperitive league.  However maybe not so much lately.  

[nutty nigel 7,527]

1 hour ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

The poll simply asks if you want promotion or not, it doesn’t attach any reasoning for why you might not. So if you simply hate the PL that much then I don’t see why you couldn’t vote ‘no’ here.

I went back to read the opening post and it’s not really any different to my post is it? TGMD talks of us failing to compete in the previous campaigns and our inability to compete financially. Two of the main reasons I talked of in my post.

Does he want us to lose every game? I don’t think so…

Sorry Hank but I don't see it. I don't see anyone posting to say they don't want to be promoted because the PL is unfair. They don't even criticise the PL. All the criticism is about our club and waiting for some miraculous event where we have the finances to compete even though it can be seen EVERY season that teams with these finances get relegated too. The opening poster has since doubled and trebled down on this criticism of our club stating that he doesn't even bother watching our games now we are back in the champs.

I find it all a strange way for supporters to behave. I want to win every game. I want to be promoted to the PL. It could be different next time. You just never know.

Ultimately it's not my fault the PL is unfair and I'd be stupid to lose my sporting ambition and replace it with ambition for other people's money.

 

 

[hogesar 9,657]

12 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Sorry Hank but I don't see it. I don't see anyone posting to say they don't want to be promoted because the PL is unfair. They don't even criticise the PL. All the criticism is about our club and waiting for some miraculous event where we have the finances to compete even though it can be seen EVERY season that teams with these finances get relegated too. The opening poster has since doubled and trebled down on this criticism of our club stating that he doesn't even bother watching our games now we are back in the champs.

I find it all a strange way for supporters to behave. I want to win every game. I want to be promoted to the PL. It could be different next time. You just never know.

Ultimately it's not my fault the PL is unfair and I'd be stupid to lose my sporting ambition and replace it with ambition for other people's money.

 

 

Excellent post.

[A Load of Squit 5,160]

20 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Sorry Hank but I don't see it. I don't see anyone posting to say they don't want to be promoted because the PL is unfair. They don't even criticise the PL. All the criticism is about our club and waiting for some miraculous event where we have the finances to compete even though it can be seen EVERY season that teams with these finances get relegated too. The opening poster has since doubled and trebled down on this criticism of our club stating that he doesn't even bother watching our games now we are back in the champs.

I find it all a strange way for supporters to behave. I want to win every game. I want to be promoted to the PL. It could be different next time. You just never know.

Ultimately it's not my fault the PL is unfair and I'd be stupid to lose my sporting ambition and replace it with ambition for other people's money.

 

 

When we were promoted last time the transfer targets we initially set out to get failed due to us not being able to meet their wage demands, this lead to the 'quantity over quality' approach that didn't work.

Amongst a lot of other stuff one thing Attanasio said in his recent interview was that when he took over the Brewers he prioritised finding a way of 'getting more more money into the payroll' to improve quality of the roster.

Now I maybe putting 2+2 and making 5 but this is the thing that makes me feel that if we do get promoted again a different approach will be taken.  

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

41 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Sorry Hank but I don't see it. I don't see anyone posting to say they don't want to be promoted because the PL is unfair. They don't even criticise the PL. All the criticism is about our club and waiting for some miraculous event where we have the finances to compete even though it can be seen EVERY season that teams with these finances get relegated too. The opening poster has since doubled and trebled down on this criticism of our club stating that he doesn't even bother watching our games now we are back in the champs.

I find it all a strange way for supporters to behave. I want to win every game. I want to be promoted to the PL. It could be different next time. You just never know.

Ultimately it's not my fault the PL is unfair and I'd be stupid to lose my sporting ambition and replace it with ambition for other people's money.

But the premier league isn’t the sole reason we’ve been relegated so badly is it? We’ve underperformed even taking stock of our financial position. We not only fell short of our rivals but we watched them disappear over the horizon, even other relegated teams managed to muster a great deal more points than us for the most part. Two premier league seasons and we couldn’t even register as many points as newly promoted Brentford in one! I wonder how many fans of Brentford hate the premier league as much as you do…? Why aren’t they punched down as badly as we have been?

The club have failed at trying to stay up, pretty catastrophically, and multiple times now. It’s not some horrible attack on the club by the fans. I don’t think you can blame people for starting to feel a bit apathetic by now. Haven’t the relegations taken even just a little bit of the shine off the thought of another promotion for you?

Taking in the atmosphere at Carrow Road so far this season it seems like plenty feel the same way. It’s chalk and cheese compared to the buzz that was the 2018/19 season. Now that’s partly due to the unexpectedness and brilliance of that first promotion under Farke, but it’s also got to be a result of the trials and tribulations that have followed. We’ve got to the promised land twice in 3 years and both times had an absolutely hellish time there. No wonder fans are struggling to muster the same excitement / energy levels in the ground, and no wonder some are even voting here that they’d rather not be promoted.

But I don’t think you can conflate that underlying fear of the PL or apathy to the club long term position, with actively wanting it to lose, which was my original point. That’s never been true. 

I too worry about what might happen in the PL, and how it could be different another time around, but that isn’t going to stop me supporting the team game-by-game nor hoping that things could be different. Other fans clearly are feeling the apathy a bit more strongly (oxymoron) like the OP but that’s the result of too many failures at the top level.  

You clearly have a glass half full approach and that’s great, but I imagine those who answered ‘no’ in this thread are doing so because they believe we’ve hit our ceiling and can’t expect to do better than another humiliation and bottom placed finish. If that’s their assumption then why would they want us to go up this year? It’s definitely defeatist but I can’t honestly blame them for holding that belief. It seems like our players suffered with that exact same issue all of last season where the white flag was waved nearly every time we conceded first, so if the players do it, how can the fans not?

The mental scars are still running right through the club, if we get promoted we’ll instantly have all of the media writing us off, questioning every element of our transfer policy and then if we don’t get off to a good start god help us! Everything is so fragile and too many players in the current club have suffered badly at that level.

This is why I’ve said before that I could see a full reset over the course of a few seasons being better for the team and fans in the long run. Get some fresh hunger in the club, take away the scarring and the failures, go again with some genuine impetus. At the moment I can’t see how another promotion is going to be us ‘going up better’, at all. Of course there are no guarantees and we should never sniff our noses at promotion, even if just for the financial reward, but every time we come whimpering back down at the first attempt we are just setting those scars a little deeper and further tainting whatever reputation we have left as a premier league club (if we have one at all).

Maybe the change in ownership can be the catalyst for change but I’d expect us to fall short again next season if we are to go up, we have a weaker first 11 than 2 seasons ago and would need an overhaul which we probably couldn’t afford even with a bit more backing… it feels like we’re back at the point of having to take another ‘free hit’ like we did in 19/20 in order to get a stronger side together for the next attempt!

Sorry a bit of a convoluted ramble but probably illustrates some of the conflicting thoughts fans have at this time!

[nutty nigel 7,527]

Hank, I didn't say I hated the PL. I criticised the unfairness of the PL. I couldn't care less about beloved Brentford. They aren't in our league this season and if we manage to be promoted we could we'll finish above them next season. I dont get how losing last season can dim enthusiasm to win this season let alone next season and beyond.

Anyway, we aren't going to agree. You've now said that the dissatisfaction is with our club and not with the PL so it's a case of each to their own.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

59 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

When we were promoted last time the transfer targets we initially set out to get failed due to us not being able to meet their wage demands, this lead to the 'quantity over quality' approach that didn't work.

Amongst a lot of other stuff one thing Attanasio said in his recent interview was that when he took over the Brewers he prioritised finding a way of 'getting more more money into the payroll' to improve quality of the roster.

Now I maybe putting 2+2 and making 5 but this is the thing that makes me feel that if we do get promoted again a different approach will be taken.  

I think so. He can't really get more money into the payroll whilst we are in this league with parachute payments. So I guess he's talking long term.

[Mengo 822]

Yes, Yes, everytime. Onwards and upwards is the only way forward 🙏. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,314]

7 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I’m not sure if posters are being deliberately obtuse about it but I’m struggling if people genuinely think there has to be a conflation where not wanting promotion automatically means you want us to lose every week- or at least lose enough to guarantee no promotion. Come on guys we know it’s not that simple!

exactly. It's a really interesting question. If it wasn't this thread wouldn't have reached 8 pages. Obviously the question isn't 'do you want us to win on Saturday?'

[nutty nigel 7,527]

2 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

exactly. It's a really interesting question. If it wasn't this thread wouldn't have reached 8 pages. Obviously the question isn't 'do you want us to win on Saturday?'

So help me out Rob. Help me understand. If 'you always want us to win Saturday' How do you not want promotion?

Surely wining the league and being promoted is the motivation for wanting to win on Saturday?

Edited September 19, 2022 by nutty nigel

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

On 05/09/2022 at 06:56, wcorkcanary said:

The Gulf between us and the teams we faced there was as wide as the Prem/ Champs. Home Farm , for example ( based in Dublin)are the Man City of Irish schoolboy football, hoovering up the best talent from miles around .

We got Keith O'Neill from Home Farm if Im not mistaken

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

On 05/09/2022 at 08:02, GodlyOtsemobor said:

I would like to amend my previous answer to a yes, the disappointment of last season has fully worn off and I am fully behind the push and hope we pìss the league once again. 

 

Just hoping beyond all hope we can make a better fist of it if we go back up and the ****e feelings towards the PL can change. 

Has something changed to make you feel differently about another Premier League campaign? Or have you simply had your head turned by the winning at Championship level?

I sadly have no renewed optimism that any Premier League season would be anything but a repeat of the last 2. Only Attanasio pumping money into the club would change my position on that, and I dont think he has any intention of doing that.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

On 18/09/2022 at 16:17, Capt. Pants said:

Not getting promoted might be the catalyst for some of our players, and fans to rediscover their hunger for being in the top flight. I just don't see it at the moment.

Likewise we are just so far off Premier League standard unless we spend tens of millions.

A number of players may see their route to the Premier League as being through a transfer however. The likes of Cantwell not too many moons ago may well be thinking 'I should be in the Premier League' (even though few of them showed any signs of that). Aarons and Pukki would certainly have takers. Hanley and Krul could also find a place in someone's squad

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

8 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

But the premier league isn’t the sole reason we’ve been relegated so badly is it? We’ve underperformed even taking stock of our financial position. We not only fell short of our rivals but we watched them disappear over the horizon, even other relegated teams managed to muster a great deal more points than us for the most part. Two premier league seasons and we couldn’t even register as many points as newly promoted Brentford in one! I wonder how many fans of Brentford hate the premier league as much as you do…? Why aren’t they punched down as badly as we have been?

The club have failed at trying to stay up, pretty catastrophically, and multiple times now. It’s not some horrible attack on the club by the fans. I don’t think you can blame people for starting to feel a bit apathetic by now. Haven’t the relegations taken even just a little bit of the shine off the thought of another promotion for you?

Taking in the atmosphere at Carrow Road so far this season it seems like plenty feel the same way. It’s chalk and cheese compared to the buzz that was the 2018/19 season. Now that’s partly due to the unexpectedness and brilliance of that first promotion under Farke, but it’s also got to be a result of the trials and tribulations that have followed. We’ve got to the promised land twice in 3 years and both times had an absolutely hellish time there. No wonder fans are struggling to muster the same excitement / energy levels in the ground, and no wonder some are even voting here that they’d rather not be promoted.

But I don’t think you can conflate that underlying fear of the PL or apathy to the club long term position, with actively wanting it to lose, which was my original point. That’s never been true. 

I too worry about what might happen in the PL, and how it could be different another time around, but that isn’t going to stop me supporting the team game-by-game nor hoping that things could be different. Other fans clearly are feeling the apathy a bit more strongly (oxymoron) like the OP but that’s the result of too many failures at the top level.  

You clearly have a glass half full approach and that’s great, but I imagine those who answered ‘no’ in this thread are doing so because they believe we’ve hit our ceiling and can’t expect to do better than another humiliation and bottom placed finish. If that’s their assumption then why would they want us to go up this year? It’s definitely defeatist but I can’t honestly blame them for holding that belief. It seems like our players suffered with that exact same issue all of last season where the white flag was waved nearly every time we conceded first, so if the players do it, how can the fans not?

The mental scars are still running right through the club, if we get promoted we’ll instantly have all of the media writing us off, questioning every element of our transfer policy and then if we don’t get off to a good start god help us! Everything is so fragile and too many players in the current club have suffered badly at that level.

This is why I’ve said before that I could see a full reset over the course of a few seasons being better for the team and fans in the long run. Get some fresh hunger in the club, take away the scarring and the failures, go again with some genuine impetus. At the moment I can’t see how another promotion is going to be us ‘going up better’, at all. Of course there are no guarantees and we should never sniff our noses at promotion, even if just for the financial reward, but every time we come whimpering back down at the first attempt we are just setting those scars a little deeper and further tainting whatever reputation we have left as a premier league club (if we have one at all).

Maybe the change in ownership can be the catalyst for change but I’d expect us to fall short again next season if we are to go up, we have a weaker first 11 than 2 seasons ago and would need an overhaul which we probably couldn’t afford even with a bit more backing… it feels like we’re back at the point of having to take another ‘free hit’ like we did in 19/20 in order to get a stronger side together for the next attempt!

Sorry a bit of a convoluted ramble but probably illustrates some of the conflicting thoughts fans have at this time!

Great post

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

4 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

So help me out Rob. Help me understand. If 'you always want us to win Saturday' How do you not want promotion?

Surely wining the league and being promoted is the motivation for wanting to win on Saturday?

Help me understand how you have any enthusiasm for another Premier League season? What allows you to believe it wont simply be a repeat of the last 2? Thats where we differ - in that I am totally disillusioned with the prosepct of another Premier League campaign under the same set of circumstances.

I think very few of our players are Premier League standard, meaning we would need heavy investment on going up - which we wont get.

If we put in a season where we gave teams a game, gave opponents a bloody nose the way Lambert's team did then Id be all for another season. But Farke's teams didnt do that, Smith had three quarters of the season and couldnt get a tune out of them and by all accounts despite results fan feel like it's not happening on the pitch.

I see another Premier League season simply resulting in limp performances, futile games and inevitable relegation. I have no belief that Smith is a manager that can change that dynamic.

I have nothing to believe in at present. The players arent good enough to stay in the PL should we get promoted. We arent going to get the players we need to compete. Therefore what is the point? It all seems meaningless.

It is a criticism of the Premier League, rather than the club, because what they have created is something a team without finance cannot hope to compete in. Leicester aside (and Im sorry but Leicester winning the league, bemoaned by football snobs, is possibly the greatest thing that ever happened in the Premier League), the top 6 are on a different planet to the other 14 clubs. A lot of those clubs may also find themselves in an existential crisis, asking, if we cant win the league, if we cant qualify for Europe, what the hell is there actually to play for? Other than not getting relegated?

Remember the inaugural PL season? Norwich leading for most of it, coming close to actually winning it? Qualifying for Europe and playing Bayern Munich and Inter Milan? Could that ever happen again for a club like ours? No, not without serious money. And that's why it's sh*t.

The championship historically has been a far more competitive league, resulting in more evenly matched games of football. Actual contests. Though I certainly hear what some fans have been saying about the standard in the Championship in recent years.

The question is about football rather than our club. What would you rather take in each week? Footballing contests between evenly matched teams, or essentially watching a cat torture a poor mouse for 90 minutes each week?

[nutty nigel 7,527]

11 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Help me understand how you have any enthusiasm for another Premier League season? What allows you to believe it wont simply be a repeat of the last 2? Thats where we differ - in that I am totally disillusioned with the prosepct of another Premier League campaign under the same set of circumstances.

I think very few of our players are Premier League standard, meaning we would need heavy investment on going up - which we wont get.

If we put in a season where we gave teams a game, gave opponents a bloody nose the way Lambert's team did then Id be all for another season. But Farke's teams didnt do that, Smith had three quarters of the season and couldnt get a tune out of them and by all accounts despite results fan feel like it's not happening on the pitch.

I see another Premier League season simply resulting in limp performances, futile games and inevitable relegation. I have no belief that Smith is a manager that can change that dynamic.

I have nothing to believe in at present. The players arent good enough to stay in the PL should we get promoted. We arent going to get the players we need to compete. Therefore what is the point? It all seems meaningless.

It is a criticism of the Premier League, rather than the club, because what they have created is something a team without finance cannot hope to compete in. Leicester aside (and Im sorry but Leicester winning the league, bemoaned by football snobs, is possibly the greatest thing that ever happened in the Premier League), the top 6 are on a different planet to the other 14 clubs. A lot of those clubs may also find themselves in an existential crisis, asking, if we cant win the league, if we cant qualify for Europe, what the hell is there actually to play for? Other than not getting relegated?

Remember the inaugural PL season? Norwich leading for most of it, coming close to actually winning it? Qualifying for Europe and playing Bayern Munich and Inter Milan? Could that ever happen again for a club like ours? No, not without serious money. And that's why it's sh*t.

The championship historically has been a far more competitive league, resulting in more evenly matched games of football. Actual contests. Though I certainly hear what some fans have been saying about the standard in the Championship in recent years.

The question is about football rather than our club. What would you rather take in each week? Footballing contests between evenly matched teams, or essentially watching a cat torture a poor mouse for 90 minutes each week?

I might be dead before we get another PL season. We are in the championship and I'm watching championship football. What if I don't live to see another PL season, could I congratulate myself on my deathbed for not going to games in my last year's just in case something happens?

TBH I don't know why you keep posting on here while you can't even be arsed to watch our team.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

33 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I might be dead before we get another PL season. We are in the championship and I'm watching championship football. What if I don't live to see another PL season, could I congratulate myself on my deathbed for not going to games in my last year's just in case something happens?

TBH I don't know why you keep posting on here while you can't even be arsed to watch our team.

Because I have supported Norwich for 30 years. And for most of them, getting to the Premier League has meant everything. For the first time as a fan I find myself no longer feeling that. We are second in the league having just come off a 6 game winning streak. Yet there are murmurs of discontent, with boos at West Brom (though Im not sure who they came from or why).

Ordinarily the place would be buzzing, but there is a lot of negativity, which seems insane given results. So there must be more to it and Im simply exploring my own feelings as a fan of the club and football in general. Im not sure why me or others doing that upsets you so much. Being a supporter is not a competition.

For the first time in my life as a Norwich fan getting to the Premier League is not something I yearn for, and Im clearly not the only one.

You can choose to view this exploration through a tribal prism and as an attack on the club if you wish, but you'll only end up raising your blood pressure.

Something that meant a lot to me has changed and I want to discuss that with others who may be feeling the same way. I dont understand why that makes you angry?

Edited September 20, 2022 by The Great Mass Debater

[......and Smith must score. 1,340]

42 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Because I have supported Norwich for 30 years. And for most of them, getting to the Premier League has meant everything. For the first time as a fan I find myself no longer feeling that. We are second in the league having just come off a 6 game winning streak. Yet there are murmurs of discontent, with boos at West Brom (though Im not sure who they came from or why).

Ordinarily the place would be buzzing, but there is a lot of negativity, which seems insane given results. So there must be more to it and Im simply exploring my own feelings as a fan of the club and football in general. Im not sure why me or others doing that upsets you so much. Being a supporter is not a competition.

For the first time in my life as a Norwich fan getting to the Premier League is not something I yearn for, and Im clearly not the only one.

You can choose to view this exploration through a tribal prism and as an attack on the club if you wish, but you'll only end up raising your blood pressure.

Something that meant a lot to me has changed and I want to discuss that with others who may be feeling the same way. I dont understand why that makes you angry?

This is a really excellent post.

You’re right in saying it seems bonkers that the crowd is so subdued on the back of 19 points out of 21. The atmosphere was non- existent when we cruised to a 2-0 lead against Bristol City, a team just below us in the League, and it’s been exceptionally quiet for the majority of the home games. To be honest our football has looked pretty sub-standard throughout that run and it’s just not fun given how we’re likely to be outclassed from minute one.if we do go up.  I suppose if you want a bit of an atmosphere it’s best to stick to away games as it’s usually better but I appreciate that’s not feasible for many.

They say past performance isn’t necessarily a guide to the future but if the status quo stays the same as it has the last two PL seasons it’s likely to be a third consecutive dismal nine months. I suppose the **** of light is the arrival of the American guy. Delia and MWJ seem to have grown weary of the whole thing otherwise surely they would have hoovered up Michael Foulger’s share holding when it became available. Perhaps at 80 years old they want to enjoy their final years free of all the hassle.

Nutty and I have been watching this outfit for 55 years and all I would say to Nutty is that we are both very fortunate to have seen a very successful period in Norwich City history. Given that we are not a massive club should we not live to see another PL season we can hardly complain. I wouldn’t want my last experience of the PL to be what they were in our last two showings there.

 

 

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by ......and Smith must score.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

48 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Because I have supported Norwich for 30 years. And for most of them, getting to the Premier League has meant everything. For the first time as a fan I find myself no longer feeling that. We are second in the league having just come off a 6 game winning streak. Yet there are murmurs of discontent, with boos at West Brom (though Im not sure who they came from or why).

Ordinarily the place would be buzzing, but there is a lot of negativity, which seems insane given results. So there must be more to it and Im simply exploring my own feelings as a fan of the club and football in general. Im not sure why me or others doing that upsets you so much. Being a supporter is not a competition.

For the first time in my life as a Norwich fan getting to the Premier League is not something I yearn for, and Im clearly not the only one.

You can choose to view this exploration through a tribal prism and as an attack on the club if you wish, but you'll only end up raising your blood pressure.

Something that meant a lot to me has changed and I want to discuss that with others who may be feeling the same way. I dont understand why that makes you angry?

I'm not angry.

I just don't see why you and others can't be honest. There's no way you want Norwich to win every game but not be promoted. It's not a possible scenario. 

At least some I've spoken to have admitted their disappointment that we've won games. 

But washing your hands of the team you allegedly support is beyond my understanding.

Good luck living in the past. You'll find company 40 odd miles down the road.

 

[nutty nigel 7,527]

15 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

This is a really excellent post.

You’re right in saying it seems bonkers that the crowd is so subdued on the back of 19 points out of 21. The atmosphere was non- existent when we cruised to a 2-0 lead against Bristol City, a team just below us in the League, and it’s been exceptionally quiet for the majority of the home games. To be honest our football has looked pretty sub-standard throughout that run and it’s just not fun given how we’re likely to be outclassed from minute one.if we do go up.  I suppose if you want a bit of an atmosphere it’s best to stick to away games as it’s usually better but I appreciate that’s not feasible for many.

They say past performance isn’t necessarily a guide to the future but if the status quo stays the same as it has the last two PL seasons it’s likely to be a third consecutive dismal nine months. I suppose the **** of light is the arrival of the American guy. Delia and MWJ seem to have grown weary of the whole thing otherwise surely they would have hoovered up Michael Foulger’s share holding when it became available. Perhaps at 80 years old they want to enjoy their final years free of all the hassle.

Nutty and I have been watching this outfit for 55 years and all I would say to Nutty is that we are both very fortunate to have seen a very successful period in Norwich City history. Given that we are not a massive club should we not live to see another PL season we can hardly complain. I wouldn’t want my last experience of the PL to be what they were in our last two showings there.

 

 

 

Smithy, I feel very fortunate to have been at the game Saturday. The pandemic and being unable to go to games for so long was the real downer and I'm still making up for lost time.

[king canary 7,599]

13 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

It is a criticism of the Premier League, rather than the club, because what they have created is something a team without finance cannot hope to compete in. Leicester aside (and Im sorry but Leicester winning the league, bemoaned by football snobs, is possibly the greatest thing that ever happened in the Premier League), the top 6 are on a different planet to the other 14 clubs. A lot of those clubs may also find themselves in an existential crisis, asking, if we cant win the league, if we cant qualify for Europe, what the hell is there actually to play for? Other than not getting relegated?

I think for most fans in an ideal world the Premier League comes to its collective senses and running a club in the manner we're run becomes the celebrated and then eventually the norm but that feels more like blind hope that anything. So I don't blame fans pining for richer owners in a sort of 'can't beat them, join them' sense. Some find themselves able to take pride in the UEA style 'do different' ethos and credit to them but I don't think others are bad for getting frustrated.

I was thinking earlier this week about how many new signings I think we'd need if we did get promoted. I settled on 7 or 8- keeper, central defender, defensive midfielder, central midfield, number 10, winger, striker. And we'd them to all likely be starter level. So, by current costs, we'd likely need to spend about £100m and that is without someone being sold to help fund as we did last time. That isn't realistic (and it isn't the clubs fault) so it is tough to be enthusiastic about another season in the top level.

[Tumbleweed 106]

I read the last 2 posts from TGMD and he/she has written pretty much what I am thinking, but far more eloquently. It is ironic that the " reward" for promotion , in the absence of £100m+ is to hope you don't get embarrassed too much on any given match day.  Even that spending guarantees little, as the experience of other clubs has illustrated. I think I'd rather us finish 3rd and lose the play off semi final on goal difference.....As said it is an indictment of the PL not our club.

[nutty nigel 7,527]

Bless you guys🙃

Would you really want us to miss that last penalty in the play off semi? I can't imagine being there and wanting that.

 

[KernowCanary 214]

Anyone who don’t want promotion, is no way a true supporter. It’s basically wanting your team to underperform.

Every time we go up, we spend within our means, which is why we keep going back down again. One day we will make a habbit of staying up just like Crystal Palace today, who were once the yo-yo club of the early days of the Prem. Fulham seem to be going the same way as well after two yo-yo events.

The more promotions, the better the money we make to build a team who can consolidate themselves in the league.

 

[Indy 3,297]

On 19/09/2022 at 15:03, nutty nigel said:

Sorry Hank but I don't see it. I don't see anyone posting to say they don't want to be promoted because the PL is unfair. They don't even criticise the PL. All the criticism is about our club and waiting for some miraculous event where we have the finances to compete even though it can be seen EVERY season that teams with these finances get relegated too. The opening poster has since doubled and trebled down on this criticism of our club stating that he doesn't even bother watching our games now we are back in the champs.

I find it all a strange way for supporters to behave. I want to win every game. I want to be promoted to the PL. It could be different next time. You just never know.

Ultimately it's not my fault the PL is unfair and I'd be stupid to lose my sporting ambition and replace it with ambition for other people's money.

 

 

I’ve always stated that the premier league needed to be restructured to combat this unfair advantage of the massive clubs, the hoovering of the best young talent allowing most to never fully develop, the fact they can field three teams of players all able to comfortably beat the rest of the teams 9 out 10 times……there’s a need for maximum squad number to 25 players, with another players needed over the season to come from youth U23 ranks, all players over 23 and not in the squad will be allowed to find alternative clubs, all other squad members are made up from the under 23’s. Maximum wage budget for players limited to 50 million for the playing staff.

It would be amazing as the best players will still want to play at the big clubs, I but the rest would be free to move on! It would tighten the league make it competitive and not one club would be safe from the start of the season!

As we are now of course you want to be in the best league, from a club point of view it’s financial vital to yo yo at worst!

Totally agree with Nutty here, there’s a lot I like about the club right now, some things I’d like to change and speed some processes up, but we’re moving forwards at our pace.

Edited September 20, 2022 by Indy

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

6 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

I'm not angry.

I just don't see why you and others can't be honest. There's no way you want Norwich to win every game but not be promoted. It's not a possible scenario. 

At least some I've spoken to have admitted their disappointment that we've won games. 

But washing your hands of the team you allegedly support is beyond my understanding.

Good luck living in the past. You'll find company 40 odd miles down the road.

 

 

I feel you're being a bit concrete in your thinking Nutty. It doesnt have to go as far down the thought chain as actively wanting your side to lose. And can I explore that one a bit? Wouldnt you actually get bored pretty quickly if Norwich won every game? Isnt the possibility of defeat and the challenge of overcoming that what gives the game meaning?

I dont believe for one second that you are so basic that you'd happily clap every Norwich win if it meant nothing.

Think about when we played Paulton and won 7-0. Did you lose your sh*t every time we scored? Of course not, because it wasnt a huge challenge.

So thinking in pure philosophical form, you'd never wish for Norwich to never lose again would you? Wouldnt that make the games devoid of meaning? Oh great, we won again!

 

Im talking philosophically about what it is that stokes the fires as a fan, and how that is lacking at present and is more nuanced than simply winning games.

The Lambert and Farke promotions were exciting because they were outrageous and the football was great to watch. We did nothing of note in the Prem because we were hopelessly outclassed and I dont see that changing without money, such is the nature of the Premier League beast.

Perhaps there is apathy because yoyoing has become a bit boring, a bit samey. Here we are again, going back and forwards more repeatedly than Bez

Edited September 20, 2022 by The Great Mass Debater

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

3 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Smithy, I feel very fortunate to have been at the game Saturday. The pandemic and being unable to go to games for so long was the real downer and I'm still making up for lost time.

As someone who doesnt attend games very often I have no perspective on this and I fully appreciate where you come from on that one

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

1 hour ago, KernowCanary said:

It’s basically wanting your team to underperform

I disagree. It's about recognising that unless something changes we are doomed for more of the same and the Prem seasons werent any fun at all. We achieved nothing, actually got worse and the football world mocked us, or rather attacked us for a cynical grab for Premier League money without making a serious attempt to stay up. That is not enjoyable.

With a reason to believe things might be different Id happily cheer the club on. At the moment I ask, 'What am I cheering them on to?' Slaughter?

I have reached the conclusion that without significant investment we have reached our ceiling, the reward of which is half of our seasons being miserable and the other half seeming meaningless.

It's recognising the inability to perform and yearning for that to change at Premier League level (which means a change in ownership Im sorry to say) or for us to play at an appropriate level - which is championship.