Do you actually want promotion?

[kingsway 94]

Ridiculous question!

 

I want my team Norwich City to win games, anyone that doesn't want to go up will hope we lose games in the Championship!

 

The Championship is great when your one of the best teams but like a previous poster said somewhere on here, any fans  who were regulars during the fallow years of 1995-2001 and 2007-2009 will vouch that the Championship isn't the Eutopia football Division some on here make it out to be when your struggling in the bottom half of it!

 

One of my favourite seasons in my time going to watch Norwich was the 2009/10 League 1 title winning campaign when we won the League by 9 clear points and went to lots of little grounds we don't normally visit in the the top 2 Divisions. - The novelty of 3rd Division football would of soon worn of if we had struggled and not got out of it as quick as we did. Ask Ip s hit fans about that!

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

If you take away a football fans desire for promotion, what are you left with? 

Promotion and relegation is part of what makes football so special. 
 

 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

Yes I do- followed by a nice dollop of American investment and take over 

[BroadstairsR 2,135]

Following links from this forum, I have started to view the forums of our opposition.

Namely, Birmingham City (Small Heath Alliance) and the Sky Blues one.

Both decent, both full of despondency, and both generally in awe of NCFC. Briefly, frequent posters assumed a hammering in the respective games.

Boy do they envy our recent Premier League experiences, as unenviable as they seem to have been to us lot.

These are two clubs very much on a level with City, imo. Brum have had their moments and, at one time, Coventry's record of top flight attendance was envied.

Both have come across leaner times and, currently, see no hope of resurrection.  

THEY are stuck in Chumps mediocrity at the very best. They fear even worse.

Long-term residence in the Championship sucks at the finances. It therefore sucks at the quality of the players on show. It therefore leads to anonymity, the expectation of failure when faced with stronger opposition and reduced expectations all-round.  Attendances dwindle, losses accumulate.

The only time the Chumps is fun is when you are winning most encounters and aspiring for promotion. 

The Opening Post is quite the most ridiculous and ill-thought through statement of  "Little Old Norwich" ever professed since Delia first decided that we should know our place.

I am astounded that as many as 35 posters actually agree with it. There can't be that many secret binners on this forum, surely?

What is the matter with you people?

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by BroadstairsR

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

33 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Following links from this forum, I have started to view the forums of our opposition.

Namely, Birmingham City (Small Heath Alliance) and the Sky Blues one.

Both decent, both full of despondency, and both generally in awe of NCFC. Briefly, frequent posters assumed a hammering in the respective games.

Boy do they envy our recent Premier League experiences, as unenviable as they seem to have been to us lot.

These are two clubs very much on a level with City, imo. Brum have had their moments and, at one time, Coventry's record of top flight attendance was envied.

Both have come across leaner times and, currently, see no hope of resurrection.  

THEY are stuck in Chumps mediocrity at the very best. They fear even worse.

Long-term residence in the Championship sucks at the finances. It therefore sucks at the quality of the players on show. It therefore leads to anonymity, the expectation of failure when faced with stronger opposition and reduced expectations all-round.  Attendances dwindle, losses accumulate.

The only time the Chumps is fun is when you are winning most encounters and aspiring for promotion. 

The Opening Post is quite the most ridiculous and ill-thought through statement of  "Little Old Norwich" ever professed since Delia first decided that we should know our place.

I am astounded that as many as 35 posters actually agree with it. There can't be that many secret binners on this forum, surely?

What is the matter with you people?

 

Jaysus Broado, your Kedgeree not up to scratch this morning.?  Getting thumped most weeks in the prem has taken it's toll on some supporters outlook. Not mine I hasten to add , I want to see us reach the highest level we can , BUT I want more than wax holding our feathers on when it starts to warm up , which is why I'm cautiously optimistic about this non agressive potential investment from across the pond.  I've always believed that a slow steady progression will serve us best ,making sure we have enough ' behind us' before making another forward step. So I'd forgo promotion this season if my crystal ball told me we'd be better off building across the squad for a more sustainable assault the following season. Unfortunately , it's not telling me anything definite, so I'll go with another successful season and another bash at the Prem. 

Still not entranced by Smith but can't argue with 5 on the spin.🤷 In short , ferkknows.

😇

Edited September 4, 2022 by wcorkcanary

[BroadstairsR 2,135]

11 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Jaysus Broado, your Kedgeree not up to scratch this morning.?  Getting thumped most weeks in the prem has taken it's toll on some supporters outlook. Not mine I hasten to add , I want to see us reach the highest level we can , BUT I want more than wax holding our feathers on when it starts to warm up , which is why I'm cautiously optimistic about this non agressive potential investment from across the pond.  I've always believed that a slow steady progression will serve us best ,making sure we have enough ' behind us' before making another forward step. So I'd forgo promotion this season if my crystal ball told me we'd be better off building across the squad for a more sustainable assault the following season. Unfortunately , it's not telling me anything definite, so I'll go with another successful season and another bash at the Prem. 

Still not entranced by Smith but can't argue with 5 on the spin.🤷 In short , ferkknows.

😇

Exactly, nothing can be predicted. Go for it when you can. In the case of NCFC that is, again, now.

Kedgeree? Two lightly grilled aspirins and a black coffee is on the menu for my sins rather than anything exotic and fishy from the days of Empire. That should do until the lunchtime assault on my liver, which should make me less aggressive, though.

Edited September 4, 2022 by BroadstairsR

[Positive_Canary 27]

What a daft question.

Own the fear. 

[......and Smith must score. 1,331]

3 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

Following links from this forum, I have started to view the forums of our opposition

 

 

It's easy to find them yourself. Just enter ' ( name of team ) forums ' in the search bar at the top.

Usually the most popular one comes out top of the list.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

A lot hangs on the Burnley game. A result there could see season tickets being returned and a boycott...

[PockthorpePete 331]

On 19/08/2022 at 10:41, The Great Mass Debater said:

Wonder how much this splits the fans. Premier League football these last two times has been utterly depressing. The club has been slagged off, the football has been turgid. We got to play with the top clubs, but really we werent ever competing. I dont enjoy football like that. Watching inept, ineffective play resulting in poor results. Without a change in ownership and therefore financial power, I do not see how that ever changes in the Premier League, so personally I dont long for it's return.

Id prefer for us to be a successful club in the championship until something changes that means we have a hope of competing in the Premier League. Id like us to be in and around the play-offs, without necessarily being too fussed if we go up or not, like Premier League football is everything.

What about you? Promotion and Premier League football no matter what? Or successful entertaining football at an appropriate level for our club?

Right now I dont think the Premier League is our level, or ever really can be with our ownership model. If we acquired the finances to be able to compete however, bring it on.

I can see where you are coming from. Some on here do not grasp that Norwich is a city of 130,000 souls with a mostly rural hinterland. So maybe we are somewhere twixt PL and the Chs. However we have managed to avoid the mad crash and burn which has been the fate of so many PL hopefuls. A few seasons chasing the delusion, then down the snake they go taking huge debts with them. Take a look at the Chs and see how many were once 'competitive' and 'giving it a go' etc. The danger there is for most they are now f****ed. Stuck in the twilight world of endless failure.

Were there to be some magic formula that we could obtain, or even try that would achieve PL success then I would suggest we try. There isn't. There are 6-8 clubs who for many reasons will always be in that group. The rest are merely moths who inevitably get burned. Former title holders Leicester are now struggling. The mighty Leeds, not so mighty. That we, one club, could somehow change all this is not only absurd thinking, but dangerous to boot. So for the next 9 months lets just enjoy being the big fish in the small pond, and worry about what follows next May.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,075]

Im not watching the games at the moment. Not out of bloodymindedness or anything like that, simply that it doesnt interest me. My wife asked me why I wasnt watching any more and I explained that for me it is somewhat pointless. Im still interested in the goals, and Im pleased to see us doing well. But I am utterly disillusioned at present. Not just with Norwich I think, just with football in general. 

I explained to her, that when Norwich won the league under Farke the first time, it was elating because it was unexpected, and yet I believed in the manager, the club philosophy as a whole, and I couldnt wait to see how the players would do in the Premier League. I thoroughly believed in them all and couldnt wait to see a plucky Norwich put the cat amongst the pigeons.

Season started well enough. A naive opener against Liverpool saw some men against boys stuff, but we'd still had more shots at Anfield for an away side than any other team in the last 2 years. A convincing win against Newcastle and we won much favour, with plenty of fans from other clubs appreciating our football and telling us how we'd be fine. Ultimately though the rot set in, probably due to repeated losses and a change in morale and mentality. Still however I believed, and remember thinking that, with the Covid curveball and break, we may have a chance if we had managed to maintain superior fitness levels through industry, rather than ability. But quite the opposite happened and we sank like a stone.

Never mind, free hit, no money spent, championship players and boys, what did we expect? We benefitted from the money and the club moved forward.

After some inevitable sales, Farke achieved a truly remarkable feat, turning around a losing mentality quickly and winning the league even more impressively than before. This time it will be different, the kids are more experienced and we will have some money this time. This time we will be able to do what we couldnt previously. With the right additions Farkeball will be able to work and we will make it right this time. I still believed in the club, the model and the manager.

Then came the transfer window, and it was thoroughly exciting. The club seemed to have pulled off a number of great signings, and this time it looked like we meant business and we were going to show them the real Norwich City. Even if we had decided to let Emi go.

 

Then, it all went wrong. The signings proved to be terrible and after a fair investment from a club like ours, we were even worse than before. The philosophy went out of the window and the club binned off the best manager we've had here in my lifetime.

Suddenly the club had no clear philosophy, and the self-funded model seemed utterly bankrupt. We couldnt compete with kids and champ players, and now, after spending £60m, we were even worse. We had failed to land our main targets because we wouldnt pay the fees or the wages needed to acquire them. We were unable to compete for players when we had a competitor for them, meaning essentially we were only able to sign players our rivals didnt want, because they likely werent good enough.

 

This has left me feeling like whatever we do, bar investment of huge amounts of money, Premiership football will only ever mean getting a regular pummelling by teams we cant compete with and inevitable relegation.

So for me, this time around, the chase is pointless, because Im not interested in the prize.

 

Winning the league means nothing to me now, because where before it offered hope, hope we could establish ourselves in the Premier League and be a team that can hold it's own, now it offers only hopelessness.

Yes we're winning at the moment, and the crowds at Carrow Road seem to be enjoying themselves, and good luck to them. But me, I am not in the same place right now. It all seems pointless to me because Premier League football offers me nothing. Therefore winning the championship offers me nothing. Therefore even winning individual games seems meaningless.

 

I, and maybe a number of other fans (I honestly dont know) am currently in a bit of an existential crisis when it comes to football. I wish the team well but Im going to be taking a bit of a break from actively following football until it begins to make sense to me again as a fan.

I think as the poll above shows, I m perhaps not the only person who feels like this. Im glad for the fans who have not been taken down by this, but for me, it doesnt hold much interest for me at present. We'll see how things change with time. I really hope I can get my mojo back at some point in the future.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

39 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Im not watching the games at the moment. Not out of bloodymindedness or anything like that, simply that it doesnt interest me. My wife asked me why I wasnt watching any more and I explained that for me it is somewhat pointless. Im still interested in the goals, and Im pleased to see us doing well. But I am utterly disillusioned at present. Not just with Norwich I think, just with football in general. 

I explained to her, that when Norwich won the league under Farke the first time, it was elating because it was unexpected, and yet I believed in the manager, the club philosophy as a whole, and I couldnt wait to see how the players would do in the Premier League. I thoroughly believed in them all and couldnt wait to see a plucky Norwich put the cat amongst the pigeons.

Season started well enough. A naive opener against Liverpool saw some men against boys stuff, but we'd still had more shots at Anfield for an away side than any other team in the last 2 years. A convincing win against Newcastle and we won much favour, with plenty of fans from other clubs appreciating our football and telling us how we'd be fine. Ultimately though the rot set in, probably due to repeated losses and a change in morale and mentality. Still however I believed, and remember thinking that, with the Covid curveball and break, we may have a chance if we had managed to maintain superior fitness levels through industry, rather than ability. But quite the opposite happened and we sank like a stone.

Never mind, free hit, no money spent, championship players and boys, what did we expect? We benefitted from the money and the club moved forward.

After some inevitable sales, Farke achieved a truly remarkable feat, turning around a losing mentality quickly and winning the league even more impressively than before. This time it will be different, the kids are more experienced and we will have some money this time. This time we will be able to do what we couldnt previously. With the right additions Farkeball will be able to work and we will make it right this time. I still believed in the club, the model and the manager.

Then came the transfer window, and it was thoroughly exciting. The club seemed to have pulled off a number of great signings, and this time it looked like we meant business and we were going to show them the real Norwich City. Even if we had decided to let Emi go.

 

Then, it all went wrong. The signings proved to be terrible and after a fair investment from a club like ours, we were even worse than before. The philosophy went out of the window and the club binned off the best manager we've had here in my lifetime.

Suddenly the club had no clear philosophy, and the self-funded model seemed utterly bankrupt. We couldnt compete with kids and champ players, and now, after spending £60m, we were even worse. We had failed to land our main targets because we wouldnt pay the fees or the wages needed to acquire them. We were unable to compete for players when we had a competitor for them, meaning essentially we were only able to sign players our rivals didnt want, because they likely werent good enough.

 

This has left me feeling like whatever we do, bar investment of huge amounts of money, Premiership football will only ever mean getting a regular pummelling by teams we cant compete with and inevitable relegation.

So for me, this time around, the chase is pointless, because Im not interested in the prize.

 

Winning the league means nothing to me now, because where before it offered hope, hope we could establish ourselves in the Premier League and be a team that can hold it's own, now it offers only hopelessness.

Yes we're winning at the moment, and the crowds at Carrow Road seem to be enjoying themselves, and good luck to them. But me, I am not in the same place right now. It all seems pointless to me because Premier League football offers me nothing. Therefore winning the championship offers me nothing. Therefore even winning individual games seems meaningless.

 

I, and maybe a number of other fans (I honestly dont know) am currently in a bit of an existential crisis when it comes to football. I wish the team well but Im going to be taking a bit of a break from actively following football until it begins to make sense to me again as a fan.

I think as the poll above shows, I m perhaps not the only person who feels like this. Im glad for the fans who have not been taken down by this, but for me, it doesnt hold much interest for me at present. We'll see how things change with time. I really hope I can get my mojo back at some point in the future.

Good post and well summarises a lot of my thoughts during last season; in terms of it being the campaign we’d been building towards over various years under Farke / Webber. I must admit I’ve been going to the games though this year and been pretty excited by a fresh season and seeing a competent team again (particularly as we missed all of 20/21).

I too wonder about the eventual outcome if we do go up but that hasn’t stopped me enjoying the journey so far. I don’t think we should get too philosophical as football fans.

You might have a change of heart if you were to go to a live game, it certainly helped me get more into things again - you clearly care enough to be here and posting so there must be something residual to unlock!

[The Great Mass Debater 1,075]

10 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

You might have a change of heart if you were to go to a live game, it certainly helped me get more into things again - you clearly care enough to be here and posting so there must be something residual to unlock!

Im sure its a different experience if you actually go. When I heard the crowd on the highlights, the atmosphere sounded good, so fans are clearly able to enjoy themselves.

If I lived near the club I would love to be a season-ticket holder and have a group of friends to attend games with, Im sure that's a different experience.

However I have never lived near the ground and this has never been feasible. Most games I have attended have been as an away fan.

Maybe I ought to look at attending an away game if a suitable one comes up. Since having kids its been a while since I did that. Liverpool when Russell Martin scored was my last game I think. Game prior to that was Liverpool when Holt scored. (I dont exactly live near Liverpool either, but the missus is a Liverpool fan so I managed to justify that one!)

She's also a Real Madrid fan, so if that ever happens Im there!

[shefcanary 2,377]

32 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

 

Live in the moment GMB. Appreciate what you can control! ❤️

[......and Smith must score. 1,331]

A very good post GMD.

I can see exactly where you’re coming from as I feel a bit like it myself although I’m not sure I agree with your contention that being there alters perspectives. I haven’t lived in Norwich for coming up to 50 years but still go to almost every home match via a season ticket but if it wasn’t for having a relative in the city I’m very close to I do wonder if I might lapse. This worries me as I’ve never felt like it before.

The last two PL seasons left me very disillusioned. The latest car crash more so. Someone who always attended with me passed away during the previous Championship season when we couldn’t attend so the sadness didn’t really kick in until we could return. Their passing affected me more than I expected and that, coupled with our abysmal performances, took the joy away.

Even during the current winning streak I’m not as excited as I used to be and should be. Getting to the PL is the good bit. The rest is not something I very much look forward to at all.

My mojo’s just not working right now but I’m always hopeful it can be repaired.

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by ......and Smith must score.

[mrD66M 98]

My opinion on this is simple.

Yes to promotion, on the sole proviso that we finish the PL season above the 2 other teams that get promoted with us. This is the bare minimum standard. There is no shame in being relegated (at least to me - there are far bigger/wealthier clubs that suffered it and took a long time to recover *wink Nott Forest, Derby County wink*), but to not put the Fulhams, B'mouths, Watfords, West Brom's et al in their place is criminal. IF [big IF] we are finishing top in the Championship it has to mean we have THE STONES to beat these clubs. We cannot be finishing bottom every f***ing time we get to PL!

This is a mental barrier, moreso than depth of pockets of club owners. 

Edited September 4, 2022 by mrD66M
incomplete sentence

[canarybubbles 1,914]

A lot of people were saying that the atmosphere wasn't great at CR on Saturday despite a fairly comfortable win. Is this why? That there is a sense of deja-vu; we've done this before and we can't quite feel the same excitement?

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

We used to experience a similar feeling in the National Cup over here with Youth Teams, we had an excellently run Club, the best in fact , outside of the like of Corinthians ( Idahs Club) in the City. We'd regularly win the league and do well in the regional rounds, the National rounds however were a different matter. 

The Gulf between us and the teams we faced there was as wide as the Prem/ Champs. Home Farm , for example ( based in Dublin)are the Man City of Irish schoolboy football, hoovering up the best talent from miles around . Being beaten  by 4 or 5  goals was not uncommon.

The resulting feeling was the same though.....We just couldn't compete. That hurt. A group of competent young players who played a good style of footy , being steamrollered by a team that is clearly a whole level, or two , above. 

So we focused on doing what we could do , as well as we possibly could . Football is a beautiful game  , but we knew we'd never be the best , just the best that we could be.

This is the way I deal with being a Naaarich fan too. I take pride in the Good things about our Club, and trust that the not so good things are being worked on.  I will not be discontent with City as a fan as long as I see us keeping as tight a ship as possible . They say a week is a long time in Politics/ Football/ Love, but if I look back five years , we as a Club are in a better place. That's progress.

As for the Premiere league, I treat it like a City break, exciting when you arrive from the country, but after a few days I think ..." Sod this, this is mental,I'm a country boy ,get  me out of here." Then after a while at home I think maybe a bit of urban buzz would be fun and I do it all over again. 

🤷

Edited September 5, 2022 by wcorkcanary
Get out clause emoji attached 😜

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,224]

I would like to amend my previous answer to a yes, the disappointment of last season has fully worn off and I am fully behind the push and hope we pìss the league once again. 

 

Just hoping beyond all hope we can make a better fist of it if we go back up and the ****e feelings towards the PL can change. 

Edited September 5, 2022 by GodlyOtsemobor

[Bonzo 198]

[Robert N. LiM 4,220]

On 04/09/2022 at 08:21, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

If you take away a football fans desire for promotion, what are you left with? 

Seems to me you're left with what we have at the moment, a team that's seven games unbeaten and in the top two in the table - and yet a real sense of apathy around the club and fans.

Really think it's this, as much as tactics or individual players' shortcomings, that is causing the current disquiet.

[Capt. Pants 4,194]

Not getting promoted might be the catalyst for some of our players, and fans to rediscover their hunger for being in the top flight. I just don't see it at the moment.

Likewise we are just so far off Premier League standard unless we spend tens of millions.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

38 posters will be happier now we dropped a couple of points but two points a game average must still be a massive worry.

Supporters wanting us to lose is a first in my 56 seasons. I honestly don't get it. I hope we win the rest of our games and they jack in tbh.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

38 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Not getting promoted might be the catalyst for some of our players, and fans to rediscover their hunger for being in the top flight

You mean it would be the catalyst for all the decent ones like Krul, Aarons, and Nunez to f*ck off, leaving us with the dregs who just wilfully accept that they aren't Premier League standard.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

I think the huge disappointment that seems to be shown after every game is because we didn't lose. Yes I honestly think some fans want us to lose to justify their malaise as supporters at the moment.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

3 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

I think the huge disappointment that seems to be shown after every game is because we didn't lose. Yes I honestly think some fans want us to lose to justify their malaise as supporters at the moment.

I feel that a loss is absolutely what a good chunk are waiting for so they can predict the demise has begun. Like you, I hope we carry on winning and an October with 18+ points will keep us up on the 2 ppg we need to go up. If a good oct does come to fruition we will also have played the ‘big threats’ as perceived, which should get rid of a few detractors too. I still do not want to commit to Smith being the man to get us through a pl season if we do go up, but I’m still happy enough to back him this year and get behind him and the team. Anything else just seems so detrimental and cutting the nose off to spite the face.

I’d rather have my pre match beer and post match optimism for a side unbeaten in 7, makes the day out so much more enjoyable seeing the bright side. Trudging home full of grump in the back of a draw just feels like what’s the point in going if it’s so miserable for you? 

Football is a soap opera that I can be a part of. I love match days and god did I miss them this last two years. This season too beats all ends up last for joy, so keep it going I say (but a bit of a relaxing 3-0 wouldn’t go amiss now and then 😉)

[sgncfc 1,221]

We have new investors and we have no idea what plans they have. They might want to rebuild the City Stand and buy some PL standard players.........

[Robert N. LiM 4,220]

2 hours ago, SwearyCanary said:

Trudging home full of grump in the back of a draw just feels like what’s the point in going if it’s so miserable for you? 

Football fulfils all sorts of roles for different people and this board is proof that for many, having a good old grump is what it's all about. I've never understood it myself, but it's a dance as old as time.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

I know it is quite funny to mock those who said ‘no’ in this poll (not me by the way), but can we please drop any serious idea that fans who don’t want promotion are actively wishing us to lose week in, week out. 

There are a hatful of reasons for us to not feel super excited about the prospect of another prem season; we’ve got a weaker first 11 than last time, we’ve just came away from two humiliating premier league campaigns where we’ve not offered a shred of genuine competitiveness, there is a total financial disparity in the PL which worsens every year and puts us firmly at the bottom of the pyramid, as well as things like VAR which many hate with a passion. Some or all of these things are a totally fair justification for not wanting to see another season of premier league football! 

My father is one who is growing sick of the premier league due to all of the above, he gets far more enjoyment watching us compete in around the top of the championship than getting battered every week in the league above. Maybe if we could muster up a vaguely competitive season in the PL it would be different but I don’t think you can blame fans for feeling like it’s not going to happen right now given recent failed attempts.

At no point do I believe that my father’s hatred of the premier league affects his game-by-game support of the team at Carrow Road, at all. He still wants the team to win as much as the next person does. Similarly I can’t think that any of the 30-odd posters in this thread answering the same way want us to lose either.

I’m not sure if posters are being deliberately obtuse about it but I’m struggling if people genuinely think there has to be a conflation where not wanting promotion automatically means you want us to lose every week- or at least lose enough to guarantee no promotion. Come on guys we know it’s not that simple!

[nutty nigel 7,506]

No Hank, read the opening post. This is not about being sick of the PL it's about being sick of our club. I agree with your dad about the PL. I always have done. It was formed through greed so nobody should surprised at how it's ended up. But that's not what posters were asked to vote on. Or indeed what they have voted on.