Play better without pukki

[Yellowhammer 86]

Think pukki should be on bench as I thought we looked far better with him 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Dunno, sample size is too small. But I do think we're gradually moving away from a style of play that's purely set up for him to flourish in.

[Newtopia 517]

I think Pukki is one dimensional and yet what a dimension.  He is simultaneously our greatest asset and biggest risk.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,713]

Christ the ammount of people thinking we can just throw our striker who has scored 25+ goals at this level twice away is hillairously depressing. It's not Pukki's fault that Dean does not know how to use him and his team mates can't be bothered to support him

[Newtopia 517]

I wouldn't throw him away, he is the best striker we have had for years.

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,271]

29 minutes ago, Yellowhammer said:

Think pukki should be on bench as I thought we looked far better with him 

We played just as well at Hull, who are arguably are stronger side. 

When fit, Pukki should still be the first name on the team sheet. Be interesting how he fares better with Sinani behind him, who seems to play the kind of balls forward Pukki thrives on. 

[glory.win or die. 270]

I'm not sure we actually played any better v Huddersfield as we did v Wigan, or even Hull.

I'd probably keep the same team for Friday partly because when Pukki gets an injury it takes him time to get back up to speed and I'm not convinced you can fully recover between Tues to Friday 

But we are also likely to have tired legs so a fresh Hernandez pukki rashica combo at 70 mins could be a match winner 

[Pugin 601]

20 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Christ the ammount of people thinking we can just throw our striker who has scored 25+ goals at this level twice away is hillairously depressing. It's not Pukki's fault that Dean does not know how to use him and his team mates can't be bothered to support him

It is symptomatic of the instant change of opinion which seems to follow every single game, not just at Norwich by any means.

It's crackers. Josh came on at Cardiff and did nothing. Did we look better then? Nope.

Judge teams / players / managers over months and years, not single games!

[jaberry2 550]

39 minutes ago, Yellowhammer said:

Think pukki should be on bench as I thought we looked far better with him 

Or we should just learn to play better with Pukki on the field. But its comments like this and others which just show how flipant and flimsy people are from week to week with their opinions. If Sargeant has one bad game you'll be crying for Pukki again.

Edited August 18, 2022 by jaberry2

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

37 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

I think Pukki is one dimensional and yet what a dimension.  He is simultaneously our greatest asset and biggest risk.

Exactly. And let's face it, he is slowly coming towards the end of his career, so it makes perfect sense to start gradually evolving the team's style of play unless a completely identikit striker is found.

[Mason 47 1,377]

In fairness, if you watch the game back, Sargent makes the same early runs Pukki tends to. Spukkily similar you might say. Unlikely to have the same level of finishing but you can see the bones in there.

It's OK for Teemu to be a bit jaded, he's barely had a rest in 4 years 😅

[Mike w 46]

Just now, Mason 47 said:

In fairness, if you watch the game back, Sargent makes the same early runs Pukki tends to. Spukkily similar you might say. Unlikely to have the same level of finishing but you can see the bones in there.

It's OK for Teemu to be a bit jaded, he's barely had a rest in 4 years 😅

100 % agree. Age will be slower to recover, give Teemu a break he will say when he feels ready.

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

8 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Exactly. And let's face it, he is slowly coming towards the end of his career, so it makes perfect sense to start gradually evolving the team's style of play unless a completely identikit striker is found.

It's a tough situation, isn't it? A bit like the Broad and Anderson situation (for those who follow Test cricket). Do you utilise them as much as possible while they're still going, because they're absolutely brilliant? Or do you think about the chasm they'll leave behind and rotate them to start introducing other options?

I'm of the opinion that with five subs available and a 46-game season, there will be plenty of opportunities for other strikers to get pitch time and for Pukki to have the occasional rest/sub appearance to keep him sharp. But if he's 100% fit, he should absolutely start every match unless he has a prolonged dip in form and output (and by that I mean more like ten games, not just three).

Edited August 18, 2022 by Feedthewolf

[Norfolk Mustard 94]

I think Pukki needs adequate recovery - as @Mason 47 says, the guy has barely had a break in 4 years! Providing we can out-muscle & out-play other teams using other resources, it will serve everyone well to slowly re-introduce Pukki for the last 20 minutes of the next few games... 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 minute ago, Feedthewolf said:

It's a tough situation, isn't it? A bit like the Broad and Anderson situation (for those who follow Test cricket). Do you utilise them as much as possible while they're still going, because they're absolutely brilliant? Or do you think about the chasm they'll leave behind and rotate them to start introducing other options?

I'm of the opinion that with five subs available and a 46-game season, there will be plenty of opportunities for other strikers to get pitch time and for Pukki to have the occasional rest/sub appearance to keep him sharp. But if he's 100% fit, he should absolutely start every week unless he has a prolonged dip in form and output (and by that I mean more like ten games, not just three).

Yep, good comparison. I personally think it's time to evolve somewhat but there are strong arguments on both sides. My stance is that for Pukki to really fire, it needed Buendia and whilst he did well in the Premier League second time around without Emi and we'd need a Buendia replacement.

It could be Sinani and Nunez between them, with a fully focused Cantwell floating around and Dowell in the squad. But we also know that he needs a break, and we need a plan B. Farke's excellent Plan A could only have so many tweaks with the standard of players we have relative to the PL that another style was bound to be needed.

And I see Smith here as the manager brought in to do that.

[jaberry2 550]

Pukki is getting on and has played the most minutes of any european footballer over the last few years. Its no surprise he is losing a yard or too. Its good to have multiple options up front.

[Canary dwarf 221]

The problem is the lack of striker options , idah , hugill Sargent ?, but pukki has deffo lost a yard of pace so really not sure what the answer is

[AJ 1,218]

Pukki is by far and away our best striker by a million miles. We don't play better without him, we simply put in a better team performance (apart from the end of the second half), and I'd like to have thought he would have scored one or two from the chances we created on Tuesday. 

[jaberry2 550]

1 minute ago, Canary dwarf said:

The problem is the lack of striker options , idah , hugill Sargent ?, but pukki has deffo lost a yard of pace so really not sure what the answer is

The answer is Pukki and when he looks out of it, to replace it later in the game with Sargeant /Idah/ Hugill. Thats the answer.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

I think Sargent keeps the position until his form dips or he does not score 

We keep the winning side and Formation 

Pukki is not getting thrown away Pukki lost his spot due to injury and the player who came in did well and scored 

Pukki will get his chance again and i am sure he will take it but until then he is just like any other player 

if we signed a left back would anyone want Gibbs dropped for Mclean ? i wouldn't 

how about if smith dropped Sinani for Rashica ? 

If players do well the reward is you start next time easy as that 

[Canary dwarf 221]

4 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

The answer is Pukki and when he looks out of it, to replace it later in the game with Sargeant /Idah/ Hugill. Thats the answer.

It's really not ideal you would expect better options , but fingers crossed someone can step it up.,,

[jaberry2 550]

4 minutes ago, Canary dwarf said:

It's really not ideal you would expect better options , but fingers crossed someone can step it up.,,

You state better options, but on paper there arent many better four players up front for many other championship teams.

Edited August 18, 2022 by jaberry2

[WD40 720]

Imagine having the option of brining Pukki on in the 60th minute to get a goal against defenses that aren’t so sharp…

[Mason 47 1,377]

11 minutes ago, AJ said:

Pukki is by far and away our best striker by a million miles. We don't play better without him, we simply put in a better team performance (apart from the end of the second half), and I'd like to have thought he would have scored one or two from the chances we created on Tuesday. 

It's impossible to tell. My prevailing theory is that he's spent the last year making the same runs and been found 5 and a half times. It's unrealistic to expect he maybe isn't as peppy and electric to opportunities in those circumstances. Maybe we played better, maybe not having Rashica on the pitch, maybe he just really needed it to rain.

But I think a bit of a rest, and another striker finally looking like they belong at Norwich (albeit only one game so far) could have a massive effect on the psychological pressure on him. When Idah briefly flared up last season Pukki also upped his goal involvements as well.

As I said on a different thread, if it's Pukki or Sargent for a save-the-world 1v1 I'm still picking Teemu every time. But isn't it nice to be having the conversation about who should start, rather than who shouldn't because we only have one option.

[BurwellCanary 216]

31 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

It's a tough situation, isn't it? A bit like the Broad and Anderson situation (for those who follow Test cricket). Do you utilise them as much as possible while they're still going, because they're absolutely brilliant? Or do you think about the chasm they'll leave behind and rotate them to start introducing other options?

I'm of the opinion that with five subs available and a 46-game season, there will be plenty of opportunities for other strikers to get pitch time and for Pukki to have the occasional rest/sub appearance to keep him sharp. But if he's 100% fit, he should absolutely start every match unless he has a prolonged dip in form and output (and by that I mean more like ten games, not just three).

It is tough but I'm not sure theAnderson/Broad analogy is quite the same. With them as seamers, you dont need to set up the team any diferently to play them - it's either a seamers pitch or it isnt.  but with Pukki, the delivery thats needed to him isnt the way that Smith can set up at the moment. Might be when/if the new midfield is playing then we might see that style of play and then he's got to be first choice when fit. But in the absence of that, the more 'traditional' way Smith is playing just doesnt suit him and it takes a lot to change the style with options he has currently has

[Satriales 636]

Nunez, Dowell and Cantwell could be the answer for Pukki. Once they gel completely, the service to him will flow.

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

1 minute ago, BurwellCanary said:

It is tough but I'm not sure theAnderson/Broad analogy is quite the same. With them as seamers, you dont need to set up the team any diferently to play them - it's either a seamers pitch or it isnt.  but with Pukki, the delivery thats needed to him isnt the way that Smith can set up at the moment. Might be when/if the new midfield is playing then we might see that style of play and then he's got to be first choice when fit. But in the absence of that, the more 'traditional' way Smith is playing just doesnt suit him and it takes a lot to change the style with options he has currently has

Whether it's a seamer's pitch or not, they're still far and away our best seam bowlers and you're always going to pick at least three quicks in your XI... but I accept that the analogy doesn't hold up to extended scrutiny 😉

Taking cricket out of the equation, I did see periods of play on Tuesday (especially in the first half) that were quite reminiscent of Farkeball, with patient movement around the final third, lots of neat interplay and then going back to the centre backs on half way to start again if necessary.

Obviously Pukki doesn't prefer to play against a low block (which we'll see a lot of this season), but he's still extremely adept at finding small pockets of space in a congested penalty area and getting accurate shots away. With the midfielders Smith has signed, I actually think we're moving more towards that style of football; Sinani and Nunez both look extremely keen to try killer passes in the final third, we know Cantwell has that in his locker, and we've not seen much of Sara and Ramsey yet.

I am hopeful that once our new midfield is bedded in (and obviously that includes the insurance of Hayden in front of the back four), Pukki will get plenty of opportunities in front of goal – and he'll score plenty, too. I just can't convince myself that he somehow has to win his place back from Josh Sargent; Sargent is a great trier, an excellent and adaptable squad player, but in no way a starting number 9.

[ron obvious 1,502]

4 minutes ago, Satriales said:

Nunez, Dowell and Cantwell could be the answer for Pukki. Once they gel completely, the service to him will flow.

I'd add Sara & Ramsey to that list.

[jaberry2 550]

7 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

I'd add Sara & Ramsey to that list.

Ramsey has shown glimpses of what he can do in his short cameo appearances. What is everyone's take on Sara currently? Albeit very early days / regaining match fitness.

[ron obvious 1,502]

4 minutes ago, jaberry2 said:

Ramsey has shown glimpses of what he can do in his short cameo appearances. What is everyone's take on Sara currently? Albeit very early days / regaining match fitness.

Early days indeed but he seems to have 'something about him' ; possibly a bit stronger than Nunez, less flamboyant, but makes the right decisions - seen a few excellent passes from him. And he can shoot.