Dean Smith just isn’t right for our club

[Pugin 601]

Dean puts more effort and intelligence into his man management than Farke ever did. Certainly no dinosaur when it comes to keeping players motivated.

[rock bus 850]

2 hours ago, Pugin said:

Dean puts more effort and intelligence into his man management than Farke ever did. Certainly no dinosaur when it comes to keeping players motivated.

Do you have any evidence to back this up?

[jaberry2 550]

On 13/08/2022 at 15:53, rock bus said:

Knee jerk reaction to going behind to Hulll.., maybe? But even if we come back to win today I still don’t think smith is right to for us.

i don’t think he’s heart Is in it and we have no love for him. He’s still trying to get over villa and we’re just trying to get over Farke.

 Let’s just admit it’s not working.. he can leave with some dignity and find a league club. We can find a manager who can motivate our players and knows what style they want and at least give us a fighting chance of making the play offs.

 Need to do it now before it’s too late!

Knee jerk reaction sums it up for me.

[Nuff Said 5,092]

What posters are missing who complain about Smith’s lack of personality and flair, and who still yearn for the romance of the relationship with Daniel Farke, is the response of Villa fans to his appointment here. I don’t think I’ve ever seen as many supporters of other clubs on here who to a man/woman told us what a great guy he was, how lucky we were to get him and what a great job he’d done for their club. As someone has said, feelings for Smith are tainted by how we feel about a lost love. Villa fans appear to feel similarly about Dean Smith, which gives a little perspective.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

2 hours ago, Pugin said:

Dean puts more effort and intelligence into his man management than Farke ever did. Certainly no dinosaur when it comes to keeping players motivated.

Certainly seems less prone to falling out with players, was a bit of a bugbear with Farke that, how quickly he could switch on people and they could go from hero to zero in his eyes. The two Greeks perhaps the best examples from last season. 

Also, whilst Dean Smith isn't the exciting left field appointment that fans were perhaps calling for, he's got a track record - just like Farke - of identifying the players in the U18/U23 squads who are ready for promotion to the first team, Jacob Ramsay was brought through at Villa under Dean Smith, his brother seems to be a talent also, and look how well Liam Gibbs is playing for him.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 13/08/2022 at 15:53, rock bus said:

and we’re just trying to get over Farke.

Speak for yourself.

 

[hogesar 9,618]

10 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

What posters are missing who complain about Smith’s lack of personality and flair, and who still yearn for the romance of the relationship with Daniel Farke, is the response of Villa fans to his appointment here. I don’t think I’ve ever seen as many supporters of other clubs on here who to a man/woman told us what a great guy he was, how lucky we were to get him and what a great job he’d done for their club. As someone has said, feelings for Smith are tainted by how we feel about a lost love. Villa fans appear to feel similarly about Dean Smith, which gives a little perspective.

Quite a few Villa fans also discussing how they wish they hadn't sacked Smith for Gerrard, of course with the benefit of hindsight.

[Van wink 2,994]

We all want City to do well, our personal views about the manager are completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, if we are winning we should all be happy, secretly hoping that the manager fails to reinforce our own prejudices is alien to being a fan. 

[king canary 7,580]

23 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Quite a few Villa fans also discussing how they wish they hadn't sacked Smith for Gerrard, of course with the benefit of hindsight.

Yes, we're constantly told he underachieved at Villa by his critics but improvements under Gerrard have been negligible. Interesting to see that lots of Villa fans are particularly annoyed at Gerrard preferring his mate Coutinho over Buendia. 

[Capt. Pants 4,202]

If you want lack of personality cue Stevie G. Yes he was a winner as a player but crikey is he dour. Keep an eye on Villa, them and Leicester are a bit of a mess at the moment.

 

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

Interesting.

Would anybody here want to swap Dean Smith for Gerrard?

"Stephen Gerrard's Norwich City" .... hmmm.

 

[astro 358]

The amount of conjecture on this thread is outstanding. All that really matters is results, and the jury is still out on that one. 

[hogesar 9,618]

34 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yes, we're constantly told he underachieved at Villa by his critics but improvements under Gerrard have been negligible. Interesting to see that lots of Villa fans are particularly annoyed at Gerrard preferring his mate Coutinho over Buendia. 

Before he was sacked, he'd had a poor start to the season. No one denies that.

But the season before, Dean Smith had Villa finish 11th, and included a 7-2 win against Liverpool.

That squad has since been significantly strengthened on paper yet finished 14th last season under Gerrard and has now had an awful start to this one.

I maintain anyone who takes a petty dislike to our manager because he isn't Farke, and who makes ridiculous stereotypes because he's English, is pretty childish. No problem with those who aren't happy with his results (I don't think any of us are yet) but some of the other rubbish posted about him is just that.

[Newtopia 517]

Obviously everyone is happy at the moment as we have won our last two games. 

I think Smith is an interesting appointment and whether he is a good appointment or not is tough to predict.

Farke was a great appointment at the time, clear view of how we would play, and the sort of players we needed. The comments about Farke ostracising players is portrayed as a negative whilst it is often a side product of knowing what you want and how you are going to do it.  The club did give him the chance to adapt but it was not successful.

Talk of adapting styles was the evoluation the club needed to go through, having the squad capable of adapting is more expensive, and erodes the effectiveness of plan A.  Which I think we are seeing.

Smith is less likeable, and NCFC have eroded their clear style of play.

Will we make that step?  Will the new directors and potential owners agree with the plan and appreciate Smith's strengths.  I suspect Dean feels vulnerable, and he is doing a good job considering the different views and opinions he is currently dealing with.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Newtopia

[hogesar 9,618]

12 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Before he was sacked, he'd had a poor start to the season. No one denies that.

But the season before, Dean Smith had Villa finish 11th, and included a 7-2 win against Liverpool.

That squad has since been significantly strengthened on paper yet finished 14th last season under Gerrard and has now had an awful start to this one.

I maintain anyone who takes a petty dislike to our manager because he isn't Farke, and who makes ridiculous stereotypes because he's English, is pretty childish. No problem with those who aren't happy with his results (I don't think any of us are yet) but some of the other rubbish posted about him is just that.

Just to evidence some Villa fan(s) current thoughts:

Quote

I was very much in the 'time for Smith to go' camp and think Villa had become stagnant, he didnt have a plan without Grealish and he didnt deserve it to turn toxic after all the brilliant work he had done. He left at the right time for him and us.

However, he is ten times the manager/man than Gerrard is and would be getting far more from this squad than we are currently getting. If it was now only a direct choice between the two options, I wouldn't hesitate to choose Smith. Careful what you wish for I suppose.

Going forward, I doubt there are many worse options out there, Lampard maybe. There are good options and bad options, but even the bad options would be better than Gerrard. He is, considering his starting position/squad, probably the worst manager we've had in living memory. This squad should sleepwalk in to tenth with absolutely no direction.

I'd be more than happy to see the back of him and leave a caretaker in place in the meantime. We need him out the club as soon as possible.

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by hogesar

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

Quite a few Villa fans also discussing how they wish they hadn't sacked Smith for Gerrard, of course with the benefit of hindsight.

Probably speaks more for how out of his depth Gerrard is looking, rather than how much they miss Dean Smith.

[Pugin 601]

8 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

Obviously everyone is happy at the moment as we have won our last two games. 

I think 

Smith is less likeable, and NCFC have eroded their clear style of play.

 

I find it really interesting that you say Dean Smith is less likeable than Daniel. Personally, I feel the opposite.

There was nothing in Daniel's gruff, Teutonic hardness that appealed to me. I saw him once in public and he was charming and humourous. He defiinately  has charisma  But that doesn't make him likeable. There is nothing that I am more wary of than charm which can be turned on and off at will. Those who possess it usually know how and when to use it to their advantage. As for his hardness as a manager, it is often used instead of emotional intelligence. So I admired and respected Daniel, but never knew enough about him to call him likeable.

As for Dean Smith, he's a thoroughly good bloke, and no mistaking it. Far warmer and a more generous, giving, personality. Not so much up himself, I would guess.

 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,680]

55 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

If you want lack of personality cue Stevie G. Yes he was a winner as a player but crikey is he dour. Keep an eye on Villa, them and Leicester are a bit of a mess at the moment.

 

'Wellll.. yeahhh course. Ummmmmmmmmm.. Good to get three points of course'

 

Swear that's every Gerrard pre match talk

Edited August 23, 2022 by cambridgeshire canary

[astro 358]

29 minutes ago, Pugin said:

I find it really interesting that you say Dean Smith is less likeable than Daniel. Personally, I feel the opposite.

There was nothing in Daniel's gruff, Teutonic hardness that appealed to me. I saw him once in public and he was charming and humourous. He defiinately  has charisma  But that doesn't make him likeable. There is nothing that I am more wary of than charm which can be turned on and off at will. Those who possess it usually know how and when to use it to their advantage. As for his hardness as a manager, it is often used instead of emotional intelligence. So I admired and respected Daniel, but never knew enough about him to call him likeable.

As for Dean Smith, he's a thoroughly good bloke, and no mistaking it. Far warmer and a more generous, giving, personality. Not so much up himself, I would guess.

 

Ok Shakey, hadn’t you better go and put the kettle on? 

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

"I like a nice cup of tea for the kick-off.

And a nice cup of tea for half-time.

And, with three points put to bed,

There's a lot to be said,

For a nice cup of tea."

Daniel Farke liked to eat cake on his sofa to celebrate.

Deano likes his cuppa.

When was the last time we had a good old boozer in the hot seat?

"Booze is off, luv!"

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by BroadstairsR

[Midlands Yellow 3,946]

14 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

"I like a nice cup of tea for the kick-off.

And a nice cup of tea for half-time.

And, with three points put to bed,

There's a lot to be said,

For a nice cup of tea."

Daniel Farke liked to eat cake on his sofa to celebrate.

Deano likes his cuppa.

When was the last time we had a good old boozer in the hot seat?

"Booze is off, luv!"

 

Lambert? 

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

1 minute ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Lambert? 

Ah, yes. Our most successful (Premier League) manager this century.

Drank his way through the boardrooms of three East Anglian clubs, and several in the Midlands and the North, with mixed fortunes but with many a lucrative pay-off. Not least at cash-strapped Portman Road.

Hic!

[makham 81]

2 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

What posters are missing who complain about Smith’s lack of personality and flair, and who still yearn for the romance of the relationship with Daniel Farke, is the response of Villa fans to his appointment here. I don’t think I’ve ever seen as many supporters of other clubs on here who to a man/woman told us what a great guy he was, how lucky we were to get him and what a great job he’d done for their club. As someone has said, feelings for Smith are tainted by how we feel about a lost love. Villa fans appear to feel similarly about Dean Smith, which gives a little perspective.

Agree. I like the way he handles interviews - friendly, polite, keeps his ego in check ( doesn't get defensive), and hasn't tried to force a rapport with fans .Probably the most challenging period of his managerial career, and he seems a very genuine bloke who has encountered a tricky new challenge in the last 9 months, the likes of which he hasn't exactly experienced in his career so far. Loved at Villa and Brentford, and played a major role in establishing the latter as a top championship club, a big part of their rise. 

Very early on, there were those 2 promising performances at home to wolves and man u. Then injuries and covid struck. As they did again after Watford away. 

Like the way we've been playing, and team and squad seem to be evolving. All for plenty of the Deano chants.

[ged in the onion bag 854]

6 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

Oh dear!

So much trouble to reveal contradictions that would not really be seen to be there if time had been taken to diagnose exactly what I said and if you had approached my postings with some degree of in depth analysis rather than with a need to try and be clever.

Hardly black and white, and as for hysteria to euphoria? You have to be kidding. Get a grip! I actually pointed out  that my conversion was 'gradual,' a path it seems many have taken.

There will always be a certain amount of fickleness in the views of most, if not all, football supporters, it's in our DNA.

I did actually admit that I used the term 'dinosaur' unfairly, but still consider him old school compared with Daniel Farke. Nothing to see there, it's called discussion.

It is also not beyond the realm of possibility that Smith's performance has actually improved from the dire to the acceptable in the space of two games. He's certainly shown a bit more tactical acumen than hitherto revealed, and certainly didn't appear so clueless on the touchline. Something had to change. Many thought that these last two home games were make or break for our management team. They made it, so we can be allowed to be more positive.

For the record, I still don't feel that Dean Smith is a good fit for our club and cannot see his term at Carrow Road being a particularly long one. However, I'll support him if he continues to get results. In the meantime, my respect will be guarded.

I still feel that Webber's decision-making will prove to be ill-judged in the medium/long-term. Hopefully not for this season, but it's in the balance more than it should be.

Hardly worth arguing further, though, as it might start you off onto another little time-consuming investigation. 

 

It wasn't much trouble at all, I only read Page 5 on this thread and your comments shone out quite quickly, you even highlighted one point.... there is a clear frustration on this forum with the more, shall we say, rational posters that the fickle fans flit between opinions so quickly on a whim which does expose that lack of appreciation / understanding.   Whilst we had not had the results so far, performances had already suggested that wins were on the way so it wasn't a surprise for us to collect 6 points last week.    It didn't change my view on Smith where I still remain to be convinced but his job has been far from easy and he deserves plenty of time.... discussion of a possible change in manager is just silly, on that basis, surely Klopp should be worried.   

For information though, my response to you took me literally a couple of minutes reading and responding, it wasn't time-consuming at all.   You wrote those words, both comments on the same page why time-consuming?  Hold your hands up, give the situation some deeper thought!    By the way, there isn't always a certain fickleness with fans, just certain fans.   

Regardless of any comparison with Farke, exactly how is he old school?     I've heard this from a number of posters typically that he's a long ball merchant yet clearly if you watch our performances he's not that.    It was understandable last season that he would go long out of necessity since the players lost so much confidence in themselves and others (particularly the midfield) that we couldn't play out from the back without conceding the ball in dangerous areas so we went longer some time, inevitably to get the ball away from our goal but then we lost Idah and so it kept coming back anyway...... not Smith's fault.    He inherited the shambles.    Teams don't have the majority of possession generally if the manager is a 'dinosaur' whatever that is.

 

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 405]

I still don't think Smith is the manager for us and it's nice to see Adams and a few others have been over to Bodo/Glimt 😉😉recently but I still want City to win every week.

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

Glad we  have Smith and Shaky on board. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,247]

4 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

The two Greeks perhaps the best examples from last season. 

I do wonder whether Farke's investments tanked when Merkel bailed out the Greek economy. It make as much sense as any other explanation

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

1 hour ago, ged in the onion bag said:

It wasn't much trouble at all, I only read Page 5 on this thread and your comments shone out quite quickly, you even highlighted one point.... there is a clear frustration on this forum with the more, shall we say, rational posters that the fickle fans flit between opinions so quickly on a whim which does expose that lack of appreciation / understanding.   Whilst we had not had the results so far, performances had already suggested that wins were on the way so it wasn't a surprise for us to collect 6 points last week.    It didn't change my view on Smith where I still remain to be convinced but his job has been far from easy and he deserves plenty of time.... discussion of a possible change in manager is just silly, on that basis, surely Klopp should be worried.   

For information though, my response to you took me literally a couple of minutes reading and responding, it wasn't time-consuming at all.   You wrote those words, both comments on the same page why time-consuming?  Hold your hands up, give the situation some deeper thought!    By the way, there isn't always a certain fickleness with fans, just certain fans.   

Regardless of any comparison with Farke, exactly how is he old school?     I've heard this from a number of posters typically that he's a long ball merchant yet clearly if you watch our performances he's not that.    It was understandable last season that he would go long out of necessity since the players lost so much confidence in themselves and others (particularly the midfield) that we couldn't play out from the back without conceding the ball in dangerous areas so we went longer some time, inevitably to get the ball away from our goal but then we lost Idah and so it kept coming back anyway...... not Smith's fault.    He inherited the shambles.    Teams don't have the majority of possession generally if the manager is a 'dinosaur' whatever that is.

 

Flannel. You made out that my second post was far more of a contradiction to my first than it actually was. A touch of 'seek, and you shall find'. Then with your haughty agenda ridden stance in place, you used this misconception to proffer the insult of being fickle, when this was clearly untrue, 

You then decided that your worthiness warranted more widespread criticism and went on to include other supporters in general, whilst even repeating some previously used exaggerated terminology. 

"The other day I wrote about fickle fans supporting on a whim from hysteria to euphoria."

It might well be a particular hobby horse of yours: but you still need to deal in facts before you jump in.

It will always be the over-riding desire of supporters for their team to be successful that will dictate their reaction to any result, good or bad. 

Give or take some allowance for Smith's sudden upturn in fortunes, my comments about him were more or less consistent, and not particularly strongly stated in either direction, although I must concede that the statement referring to the man as "a stuck in the mud personality who appears to be totally unaware of the requirements for success in today's game." might well have been OTT in retrospect there is no denying that his and his team's performances since arriving  Carrow Road, and before this week, could well have justified this reaction. Even so, this was a benign comment compared to some I have encountered on this forum.

Despite the massive seven points we have now accumulated, I still feel that success this season with Dean Smith in charge is still in the balance, and far more so than it need be. My anxiously sought conversion will continue to be gradual.

Edited August 23, 2022 by BroadstairsR

[king canary 7,580]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

I maintain anyone who takes a petty dislike to our manager because he isn't Farke, and who makes ridiculous stereotypes because he's English, is pretty childish. No problem with those who aren't happy with his results (I don't think any of us are yet) but some of the other rubbish posted about him is just that.

In a lot of ways the relationship Farke built up with our fanbase was great.

In a few ways though it has got a bit weird- crossed from 'he's a great football manager and seems like a nice bloke' to 'If I met him I just know we'd be best friends!' type strangeness.

And yes you're correct that some very odd stereotypes about British managers have been attached to Smith by those who only see what they want to. 

[BroadstairsR 2,138]

This stereotyping of managers is interesting, perhaps it's one of the few things the layman has at his disposal when things are not going to plan.

In truth, though, you can no more lump Steve Bruce in with Mick McCarthy than you can Daniel Farke with Jurgen Klopp. 

Is it then a question of more similarities than differences because it is impossible to generalise?

Youth combined with a Mediterranean background seems to be a big pull for some. Big name in the game for others, whilst many look for tactical constipation as a sign of being up there with the necessary.

Into what box can we place Dean Smith should the need arise?  Middle of the road manager of general competence? Safe pair of hands? Tactical innovator? Dinosaur? Motivator? Winner? Loser?

 He has never actually come over to me as one capable of carving his own niche in the game. He knows  the job and fitted in seamlessly at Carrow Road without having the impact that even Wee Alex did, let alone Daniel Farke. 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by BroadstairsR