"He's very well liked in the dressing room"

[canarybubbles 2,199]

According to the Pink Un, this is what Smith said when asked about Sargent. Does anyone say Pukki is well liked in the dressing room? Or Aarons? Did they say it about Buendía when he was here? No? Why not? Because you only say that about people who aren't delivering it on the pitch.

Apparently, Sargent needs more time to develop. 30 games isn't enough. 30 minutes in 2022 was enough for Smith to decide that Tzolis didn't cut the mustard. Maybe all of 5 minutes to decide that Martin should be dumped. But it seems Sargent, like Smith himself, deserves endless time. 

All managers have their favourites. What's important is their judgement. I think it's fair to say the jury is out on Smith's.

 

 

[cambridgeshire canary 7,798]

That's one way to say 'Well ok so I have nothing really positive to say about him when he's on the pitch.. But he's a decent bloke when off it!'

[WD40 726]

Sadly what else could Smith say when asked? The bit about bombing out Tzolis points to a couple of things - bad attitude from Tzolis or no takers for Sargent. Both could also be true. 

[RugbyCanary 106]

Sometimes, something said is the truth without any hidden agenda with them. He maybe really liked. No extra, just a generally nice guy

[canarybubbles 2,199]

4 minutes ago, WD40 said:

Sadly what else could Smith say when asked? The bit about bombing out Tzolis points to a couple of things - bad attitude from Tzolis or no takers for Sargent. Both could also be true. 

If it's a bad attitude, that'll soon become clear at Twente. 

There is also a third option - that Smith couldn't recognise a player with great potential if you stuck a 16-year-old Messi in front of him.

[city4eva 242]

3 minutes ago, RugbyCanary said:

Sometimes, something said is the truth without any hidden agenda with them. He maybe really liked. No extra, just a generally nice guy

just what we need , a team of nice guys, who cares about their footballing ability

[Robert N. LiM 6,284]

Just a reminder that he's still only 22. I'm far from convinced that he'll become a player for us. But the price tag isn't his fault and there's absolutely no questioning his attitude and desire. Really hope he can play a useful part for us this season.

[Monty13 2,736]

Guess who our second highest scorer was last year?

Sargent is 22. He did ok in a team that was woeful last year.

I’ve no idea why neither Smith or Farke rated Tzolis, but using it as a stick to beat Sargent with just seems wrong to me, he didn’t pick himself.

Every time I’ve seen him play I’ve mainly seen a raw player with potential giving 100%. Not his fault we bought him or needed to rely on him so much because of how poor we were.

I struggle to name one other player outside of Pukki who gave a match winning performance like Sargent did against Watford last year.

I’m glad he slotted his penalty because he doesn’t deserve the crap he gets.

[Yobocop 1,444]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

Guess who our second highest scorer was last year?

Sargent is 22. He did ok in a team that was woeful last year.

I’ve no idea why neither Smith or Farke rated Tzolis, but using it as a stick to beat Sargent with just seems wrong to me, he didn’t pick himself.

Every time I’ve seen him play I’ve mainly seen a raw player with potential giving 100%. Not his fault we bought him or needed to rely on him so much because of how poor we were.

I struggle to name one other player outside of Pukki who gave a match winning performance like Sargent did against Watford last year.

I’m glad he slotted his penalty because he doesn’t deserve the crap he gets.

Pretty much this - we’ll all be singing from a very different hymn sheet re: sargent by the end of the season 

[TheGunnShow 7,377]

There's always room for wholehearted triers who readily work themselves into the ground to build a platform for the team to thrive. Sargent is possibly the most damned industrious player we've got. If Lungi's popular amongst some fans for being a quiet pro who turns up and plays reasonably no matter whereabouts on the pitch, then Sargent's similar because he grafts so hard.

If we were doing well Sargent would be lauded for those same workaholic tendencies. The fact we're not means his weaknesses, which are fairly glaring in the technical aspect, are used to criticise him.

Edited August 12, 2022 by TheGunnShow

[chicken 3,086]

Iwan Roberts, Malky Mackay, Fleming, Grant Holt, Wes Hoolahan, Tettey, Bradley Johnson... 

All players that were said to be good characters and well liked. It isn't automatic code for a player is crap. It does sort of translate to "this poster is posting rubbish" though. 

Talk about agenda's! 

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

6 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Guess who our second highest scorer was last year?

Sargent is 22. He did ok in a team that was woeful last year.

I’ve no idea why neither Smith or Farke rated Tzolis, but using it as a stick to beat Sargent with just seems wrong to me, he didn’t pick himself.

Every time I’ve seen him play I’ve mainly seen a raw player with potential giving 100%. Not his fault we bought him or needed to rely on him so much because of how poor we were.

I struggle to name one other player outside of Pukki who gave a match winning performance like Sargent did against Watford last year.

I’m glad he slotted his penalty because he doesn’t deserve the crap he gets.

He deserves some criticism because, quite frankly, for a striker he has thus far failed to deliver where it matters, and he was costly to boot, but if this thread turns into yet another OTT assassination of the player, then I'm out.

He has attributes that could make him very valuable in the Chumps but, nevertheless, the next half dozen games or so will be make or break for a few at the club, and this includes not just the Sarge, but also the manager himself.

I wish I had more confidence in both.

[chicken 3,086]

10 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Guess who our second highest scorer was last year?

Sargent is 22. He did ok in a team that was woeful last year.

I’ve no idea why neither Smith or Farke rated Tzolis, but using it as a stick to beat Sargent with just seems wrong to me, he didn’t pick himself.

Every time I’ve seen him play I’ve mainly seen a raw player with potential giving 100%. Not his fault we bought him or needed to rely on him so much because of how poor we were.

I struggle to name one other player outside of Pukki who gave a match winning performance like Sargent did against Watford last year.

I’m glad he slotted his penalty because he doesn’t deserve the crap he gets.

Not just Watford, was it Southampton where he came off the bench to inject some pace and strength and was widely credited by fans for turning that game into a victory? 

He also changed the game VS Birmingham. Some will say making a change before a corner is daft, that's certainly not his fault, but after that, his energy and touch helped massively going forward. IMHO other than Hugill's assist, Sargent's movement was far better, he is faster and he is stronger.

He came here at 21, turned 22 at the start of the year. I still hold out hope that he'll come good. No doubt if he had been sent on loan to a Dutch team people would have been suggesting we should never have loaned him out and given him more time etc etc etc. 

[Monty13 2,736]

7 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

He deserves some criticism because, quite frankly, for a striker he has thus far failed to deliver where it matters, and he was costly to boot, but if this thread turns into yet another OTT assassination of the player, then I'm out.

He has attributes that could make him very valuable in the Chumps but, nevertheless, the next half dozen games or so will be make or break for a few at the club, and this includes not just the Sarge, but also the manager himself.

I wish I had more confidence in both.

He has rarely played as a striker though. Saying he’s failed as a striker suggests that’s where he’s been playing. Also he was cheap in PL terms, but again we chose to buy him.

I can only rate what I see from him when he’s put on the pitch, and while yes of course he has a lot to work on and improve, I don’t think, bar one miserable missed opportunity, he's done that bad in context.

If he gets a good run of games and fails to impress with his performances in the Championship then fair enough, of course he’s not immune from criticism. However I’d say in context he gets way more criticism from a section of supporters than he deserves and the fact Smith rates and likes him seems to amplify that.

 

[TheBaldOne66 768]

All this as Nice chap business is wonderful but what about a striker scoring goals?

He couldn’t even score with a gaping net in front of him against Brighton ffs, and after playing 30 games he’s scored in 2 games, great record for a striker that isn’t it 🤣

All the nice guy talk sums up why we are a soft touch nowadays, and why teams don’t fear us anymore! 

[unique 466]

Hang on a minute….isn’t this Hugill’s strap line?

Clever move by our forwards don’t you think? Make yourself likeable in the dressing-room, then nobody gives a f’k whether you can score goals or not……

Let’s hope Idah is a bit of a joker too………

[canarybubbles 2,199]

It's doubtless my fault, but this thread has turned into a discussion about Sargent, which wasn't what I intended.

I wanted to attack the way that continuing to support a player or throwing him on the scrapheap seems to have become a matter of managerial whim. Smith likes Sargent and Rashica, so they get the nod; he doesn't rate Tzolis or Martin, so they're toast.

I guess this is how things always are and will be, but I hate the fact that two players get 30 games to 'develop', while two others get around 30 minutes or even no time at all in the case of Martin just because Smith doesn't rate them.

If Smith was Brian Clough or Alex Ferguson, maybe this would make sense. But he's not; he's Smith.

[Nexus_Canary 1,206]

I don't see the issue.

I mean that's football isnt it

[The Bristol Nest 597]

Dean Smith is saying that many of you don't know enough about the game to realise what he offers. The coaching team and players get it.

 

I am not saying that I agree but that is what he is suggesting. He might be right, of course.

[chicken 3,086]

7 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

It's doubtless my fault, but this thread has turned into a discussion about Sargent, which wasn't what I intended.

I wanted to attack the way that continuing to support a player or throwing him on the scrapheap seems to have become a matter of managerial whim. Smith likes Sargent and Rashica, so they get the nod; he doesn't rate Tzolis or Martin, so they're toast.

I guess this is how things always are and will be, but I hate the fact that two players get 30 games to 'develop', while two others get around 30 minutes or even no time at all in the case of Martin just because Smith doesn't rate them.

If Smith was Brian Clough or Alex Ferguson, maybe this would make sense. But he's not; he's Smith.

First up, Tzolis wasn't given many starts by Farke either. And if you start youngsters regularly in a situation like last season, it can hamper their confidence and their development. It requires very careful management. In all fairness, we'd probably have been better off loaning him to another club last season as he didn't get game time and a lack of confidence didn't help that. Smith specifically said he was trying too hard and struggling to come to terms with the valuation put upon him - it has happened before.

It makes total sense in my mind, to send a player in that situation out on loan to get away from the pressure of that valuation and the situation that club is in which perhaps increases that self imposed expectation. Get regular game time, enjoy your football, come back with another years experience, another year older and another year wiser - not that he isn't, just that's what he'll gain. He could return to be like a new signing. At the very least, the only way to realise some of that value we spent is to get him game time.

I doubt any manager would say they expect the player to return full of form and confidence if they didn't intend that to be at least an option. Conspiracy theories are just that.

As for Clough and Ferguson - Farke wasn't either of those either. Nor was Alex Neil, Hughton, Bobby Robson, Klopp or Lambert... not really sure what your point its. 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,261]

The rumours suggest that Tzolis is still immature and needs to grow up a bit, it's not an attitude problem, some people just mature at different stages and he obviously needs more time to develop as a person so he doesn't hide on the pitch when it's not going his way or get too down after missing a chance. Hopefully this loan allows him to do that. 

I like Sargent, there is still time for him to develop his finishing, he'll never be prolific but with the right coaching he's a useful focal point for attacks and once he gains more expirience hopefully he'll be able to use his strength and athleticism more effectively. He's putting himself about a lot this year and it's frustrating me immensely that refs keep blowing up for fouls, makes me think that someone like Holty wouldn't be as effective as he was in this day and age. It's a shame we had to pay so much for him because it greatly raises expectations, I think if we got him cheap he'd be a bit of a cult hero. 

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

I'm glad he is liked. It must be awful to sit in a dressing room and know the rest don't want you there.

But for the supporters, he has got to be more than popular with his teammates. 

[ricardo 8,034]

34 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I'm glad he is liked. It must be awful to sit in a dressing room and know the rest don't want you there.

But for the supporters, he has got to be more than popular with his teammates. 

Every team has to have a Scapegoat and sometimes there are so many that they have to takes turns. It was Kenny last year, now its a toss up between Rashica and Sarge.

[yellowrider120 917]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Every team has to have a Scapegoat and sometimes there are so many that they have to takes turns. It was Kenny last year, now its a toss up between Rashica and Sarge.

True but maybe for the thickest part of £20M (!!),  many fans think we have been (so far) a little bit 'short changed')  

 

 

 

[littleyellowbirdie 3,138]

1 hour ago, canarybubbles said:

It's doubtless my fault, but this thread has turned into a discussion about Sargent, which wasn't what I intended.

I wanted to attack the way that continuing to support a player or throwing him on the scrapheap seems to have become a matter of managerial whim. Smith likes Sargent and Rashica, so they get the nod; he doesn't rate Tzolis or Martin, so they're toast.

I guess this is how things always are and will be, but I hate the fact that two players get 30 games to 'develop', while two others get around 30 minutes or even no time at all in the case of Martin just because Smith doesn't rate them.

If Smith was Brian Clough or Alex Ferguson, maybe this would make sense. But he's not; he's Smith.

It's not whim. The managers interact with the players daily and know how receptive they are to what they have to say, they have the opportunity to see players up close in training and they have the benefit of many statistical insights into players from analysts. 

Additionally, the club has an interest in the performance of the players, so doubtless the manager has to give detailed accounts of his rationale for decisions on players to the board that the general public are never going to be privy to; just saying 'he seems like a good bloke' will not be considered adequate for that sort of discussion. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[hogesar 10,764]

2 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

If it's a bad attitude, that'll soon become clear at Twente. 

There is also a third option - that Smith couldn't recognise a player with great potential if you stuck a 16-year-old Messi in front of him.

Only if you're a complete idiot and ignore the fact Smith tried him for a bit despite Farke having already decided not to play him, and he looked hideously out of depth whilst also having no redeeming features in physicality work rate or tactical nous.

[norfolkngood 1,174]

3 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

True but maybe for the thickest part of £20M (!!),  many fans think we have been (so far) a little bit 'short changed')  

 

 

 

Exactly

i think kenny gets Flak because he has plenty of chat ,he tells everyone what to do and plenty of pointing which is fine but your performance has to be as good or better for you to do that , 

i think last season Aarons had words with Kenny when he went to celebrate a goal ,

But back to Sarge and smiths comments 

i have never heard a manager say about a player everyone in the dressing room hates him and thinks he is not good enough and should not be in team 

it must happen at every club but we will not know 

i imagine serge might be well liked but we can not pick players on that must be form only 

[Capt. Pants 5,009]

2 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

That's one way to say 'Well ok so I have nothing really positive to say about him when he's on the pitch.. But he's a decent bloke when off it!'

Sorry I'm quoting you again, but I'm starting to detect a Smith style of criticising players. A couple of days ago it was Hernandez needs an end product, now Sarge is well liked in the dressing room. I have no problem with this, but wonder who'll be next?

[canarybubbles 2,199]

24 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Only if you're a complete idiot and ignore the fact Smith tried him for a bit despite Farke having already decided not to play him, and he looked hideously out of depth whilst also having no redeeming features in physicality work rate or tactical nous.

I've just worked out that Smith played Tzolis in 10 games of the 27 he was in charge of during last season, starting him just once. The total number of minutes he got (not including added-on time) was 197, which is just over two games in total. Only a complete idiot would think that playing someone for two games out of 27, often in tiny ten-minute slots at the end of games, is genuinely giving him an opportunity to prove himself.

As for tactical nous, look at his first goal for Twente last night. I think that displays an awareness of the pitch way beyond anything I have seen from e.g. Sargent or Rashica. 

But you won't look because you have this prejudiced idea that he is sh*t and nothing will change it. Whereas I am willing to admit that he may turn out to be a flop because lots of promising young wingers turn out to be flops, you just know he is rubbish because you are always, inevitably right.  

[canarybubbles 2,199]

7 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Sorry I'm quoting you again, but I'm starting to detect a Smith style of criticising players. A couple of days ago it was Hernandez needs an end product, now Sarge is well liked in the dressing room. I have no problem with this, but wonder who'll be next?

Well, it won't be Ramsey. Golden Boy has been personally selected by Smith, so every flick, every pass, every touch of the ball will be lovingly reported to the masses.