Have we really messed up?

[canarybubbles 1,915]

7 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said:

sounds a bit like his debut for us against Bournemouth.

I'd say it tells us nothing, one way or the other.

 

I disagree. It tells us he has talent, as did the Bournemouth game, in which he was easily MOTM. Whether that talent can be developed, and whether he has the mental strength needed to be a top player, who knows?

I also think it proves that he deserved more than (if my memory is right) 26 minutes on the pitch in 2022 before being discarded as surplus to requirements this season. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

8 hours ago, chicken said:

I saw that tweet too.

What’s your point? Obviously I got the information from somewhere - I wasn’t claiming to have been at the game!!! 

 

[hogesar 9,618]

7 hours ago, Tzol Machine said:

No not only messed up but Norwich coach team, fan base is rotten from the inside. 

If C Ronaldo went to Norwich instead of Man U and Farke was the manager, Ronaldo would be serving burgers at Mcdonalds right now. 

Tzolis was a proven goal scorer, he played againts top clubs and performed exceptionally well. But no Adam Idah had to be given the opportunities and the priority because reasons. 

You messed up, you f uped big time and with the mentality you have displayed as a collective it's just normal that you get the results you're getting. Tzolis was your ticket to stay in the PL this year. Its unfortunate, he's the real deal just needs to be developed properly and without any toxicity. 

Hahaahahahhhahahaahahahahaha

Farke has a proven track record of developing young players, Tzolis track record in England is looking well below the required ability alongside taking penalties from better players and missing them.

I hope he does well but playing well against League One level opposition doesn't really mean much.

You can go back to stroking his hair now or whatever it is you do in your spare time.

[canarybubbles 1,915]

14 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Hahaahahahhhahahaahahahahaha

Farke has a proven track record of developing young players, Tzolis track record in England is looking well below the required ability alongside taking penalties from better players and missing them.

I hope he does well but playing well against League One level opposition doesn't really mean much.

You can go back to stroking his hair now or whatever it is you do in your spare time.

The opposition may have been L1 level, but I have yet to see Rashica or Sargent do anything like that in the approximately 30 games they have each played.

Considering we have played three teams so far this season and failed to beat any of them in 90 minutes even though two of them are tipped for relegation and the other was fielding a totally new group of players, I think our current wingers and strikers may all be 'well below the required ability' (except for Pukk, of course).

One swallow doesn't make a summer, and this could be a fluke. So let's see how Tzolis does in the Dutch league itself, which may have a few poor L1-level sides near the bottom but also includes Ajax and PSV, who are way above anything we're likely to meet this season in the Championship, and others like Feyenoord and Alkmaar who would probably win it.

[hogesar 9,618]

Just now, canarybubbles said:

The opposition may have been L1 level, but I have yet to see Rashica or Sargent do anything like that in the approximately 30 games they have each played.

Considering we have played three teams so far this season and failed to beat any of them in 90 minutes even though two of them are tipped for relegation and the other was fielding a totally new group of players, I think our current wingers and strikers may all be 'well below the required ability' (except for Pukk, of course).

One swallow doesn't make a summer, and this could be a fluke. So let's see how Tzolis does in the Dutch league itself, which may have a few poor L1-level sides near the bottom but also includes Ajax and PSV, who are way above anything we're likely to meet this season in the Championship, and others like Feyenoord and Alkmaar who would probably win it.

Yeah, let's also wait to see how our wingers perform this season too, then.

[canarybubbles 1,915]

7 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Yeah, let's also wait to see how our wingers perform this season too, then.

OK, let's wait, but the early signs are not encouraging. Rashica has been inept so far, Sargent has managed to make a nuisance of himself but continues to have the technical ability of a drunken giraffe, and Hernandez is, as usual, flattering to deceive (but still looking a hell of a lot better than either Rashica or Sargent). 

So let's see where we are after ten league games (and what Tzolis has done or hasn't done during that time).

[Richard Richard 186]

Well said, Christos - you must be thrilled that you played so well 👍

[Richard Richard 186]

3 hours ago, Tzol Machine said:

 

Higher quality video, the 2 goals are near the end

Watch Tzolis on his second goal just before cutting in for the shot he dribbled the ball between the legs of the defender while in motion... thats VERY impressive. 

Also on his first goal hes the one crossing the ball on the other side, basicly creating an opening and a play out of thin air. 

Just in case you had any doubts about his abilities. This guy is the real deal. There's no player on the current roster that can match his abilities, what a joke. 

Is this guy Tzolis' agent? 🤔

[canarybubbles 1,915]

9 hours ago, SwearyCanary said:

He has, money temporarily off the wage bill so we can afford to pay and play someone better for us at this time. If he storms it then as others have said, back into the fold. If that’s not happening then kerching. 

Who is this someone better? Sargent? Rashica? Hernandez? I guess possibly Smith's blue-eyed boy from Villa might be up to the task.

[hogesar 9,618]

39 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

OK, let's wait, but the early signs are not encouraging. Rashica has been inept so far, Sargent has managed to make a nuisance of himself but continues to have the technical ability of a drunken giraffe, and Hernandez is, as usual, flattering to deceive (but still looking a hell of a lot better than either Rashica or Sargent). 

So let's see where we are after ten league games (and what Tzolis has done or hasn't done during that time).

Rashica already has an assist. I'm happy to wait and see.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

14 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

Who is this someone better? Sargent? Rashica? Hernandez? I guess possibly Smith's blue-eyed boy from Villa might be up to the task.

Better player doesn’t have to be where Tzolis plays, just any new actually playing player, eg Nunez, Sara. 
As Sargent, Rashica and Onel were already in the wage bill I’m not sure how you’d see them as being freed up by saving on Tzolis wages anyway. 
Tzolis may contribute to the club in future, but wasn’t going to in the current season despite people thinking he would. Have no idea about Ramsey, but happy to see if he can play, not going to buy into the dream that Tzolis was our saviour in waiting 

Edited August 12, 2022 by SwearyCanary

[Mason 47 1,373]

Happy he played well, not going to get worked up because he had a good game. You only need to look at the tackle attempt in that goal clip to see the level of opponent (the guy who looks like he panicked and pressed the wrong button on Fifa then gave up entirely)

Always nice to have the Tzolis fanatic show up for a bit as well

[A Load of Squit 5,128]

4 hours ago, Tzol Machine said:

 

 

Must be the new hair style, cropped at the front and longer on the back. 😃

[Branston Pickle 3,636]

5 hours ago, Tzol Machine said:

The biggest differences between clubs in this day in age are the fixed matches and bias of referees towards the clubs with higher budget. If it wasn't for the corruption many clubs in europe would have better results and the top clubs would lose ALOT more than they do atm. You talk about standard but in all honesty the english league is not that great, not sure where you see the high standards? Is it in the special juices the trainers give their players or bought out referees? 

That’s just a load of rubbish, shame you wasted all those words, they deserve better!

Edited August 12, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[BigFish 1,986]

Interesting on this thread that no one has pointed out that Tzolis was on the bench while our old friend Ricky van Wolfswinkel started for Twente.

Probably says a lot

[If wed kept Howie.. 199]

decent goals... but i watched the highlights and couldn't help but notice a young, talented striker we should probably keep an eye on... Ricky Van something

[If wed kept Howie.. 199]

1 minute ago, BigFish said:

Interesting on this thread that no one has pointed out that Tzolis was on the bench while our old friend Ricky van Wolfswinkel started for Twente.

Probably says a lot

you must have been typing that at the same time as me!

JINX!

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

10 hours ago, Tzol Machine said:

If C Ronaldo went to Norwich instead of Man U and Farke was the manager, Ronaldo would be serving burgers at Mcdonalds right now. 

At what point in this hypothetical chain of events does he lose his hundreds of millions of pounds and need to work for minimum wage? 

Edited August 12, 2022 by TeemuVanBasten

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

Slagging off the opposition is one thing but let's not forget we have failed to beat Cardiff, Wigan and Birmingham who were effing dreadful.

Obviously it benefits the club if he does well but I doubt we'll see him in a Norwich shirt again. 

[hepphep 175]

Really well taken goals them both. Very promising and shows he clearly has the talent.

However, some of the teams in that phase of the tournament still vary somewhere between top league two to bottom of championship. The game is quite different to what it was in EPL and also to what it is mostly in Championship as well as you can see there, with much more space and time. It is promising however, and I truly wish that he can keep on his development and take the step needed to be able to do those things against higher level opponents as well.
 

[mrD66M 99]

As per usual, us football fans are fickle, too quick to go with the hype of excessive praise and scathing criticism (criticism can be good if it's fair and balanced).

Pukki wouldn't have made it here as a younger striker - we just got him at the right point of his evolution. Christos needs the play time to evolve, so either with us or not, I hope he does well as long as it's not against us.

[Robert N. LiM 4,241]

3 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

 

I disagree. It tells us he has talent, as did the Bournemouth game, in which he was easily MOTM. Whether that talent can be developed, and whether he has the mental strength needed to be a top player, who knows?

Well funnily enough, that's pretty much exactly what I meant!

Edited August 12, 2022 by Robert N. LiM

[chicken 2,604]

2 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

What’s your point? Obviously I got the information from somewhere - I wasn’t claiming to have been at the game!!! 

Nice to credit where you got your info from is all. 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

Looking at those two goals, I dont see why he couldnt have scored those goals in the championship

[chicken 2,604]

2 hours ago, canarybubbles said:

The opposition may have been L1 level, but I have yet to see Rashica or Sargent do anything like that in the approximately 30 games they have each played.

Considering we have played three teams so far this season and failed to beat any of them in 90 minutes even though two of them are tipped for relegation and the other was fielding a totally new group of players, I think our current wingers and strikers may all be 'well below the required ability' (except for Pukk, of course).

One swallow doesn't make a summer, and this could be a fluke. So let's see how Tzolis does in the Dutch league itself, which may have a few poor L1-level sides near the bottom but also includes Ajax and PSV, who are way above anything we're likely to meet this season in the Championship, and others like Feyenoord and Alkmaar who would probably win it.

Teams tipped for relegation don't always make for easy beating. Should be a given at this level that those types of teams typically defend first which can make them harder to break down as opposed to teams trying to outplay you.

Also, Vs Birmingham we pretty much had a 2nd string out. We had two U23's making their first starts plus McCallum, Sara and Sinani making theirs. Hugill and Hernandez have been away from the club for a season. 

[chicken 2,604]

4 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Looking at those two goals, I dont see why he couldnt have scored those goals in the championship

For one, the defender that is marking him is woeful. I'm not sure you can compare the Serbian league to the Championship.

Folks need to temper this a little, yes, great performances and you need to be able to perform against all levels of opposition. I am one who likes Tzolis and had wanted him to stay, but he needs time and confidence and he's clearly getting that at Twente which is good. Realism needed though, he is going to be better measured over a period rather than a single game against poorer opposition. 

[hogesar 9,618]

7 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Looking at those two goals, I dont see why he couldnt have scored those goals in the championship

Well, the first would be saved by most championship standard goalkeepers and the second wouldn't normally see a championship defender give up twice and throw himself to the floor 

[Canary dwarf 221]

Two really great goals but the standards not high , let's see whether he continues to improve and develop ,he should have had more game time here even allowing for the penalty fiasco.😗

[chicken 2,604]

35 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Slagging off the opposition is one thing but let's not forget we have failed to beat Cardiff, Wigan and Birmingham who were effing dreadful.

Obviously it benefits the club if he does well but I doubt we'll see him in a Norwich shirt again. 

As ball playing sides yes... but then they were brilliant in knowing that wasn't going to be how they got points from us.

Cardiff set up to nullify and disrupt and to pinch a goal by hook or by crook. And that's what they did. Defensively they were solid, played well and they had the gamesmanship down to a T. They found the boundaries of the ref and played to them. Sadly for us, he was incredibly lenient which meant they got away with more and more. But it worked. Football is a tactical game, they got theirs right. So they played to their strengths well.

Wigan were similar, but perhaps a little less brutal. They have some quality in there, James McClean has been around a while, but he scored goals in the premier league. The came for a draw and that's what they go.

Birmingham came to play football in a cup match. We dominated pretty much from start to finish bar about 20mins of the 2nd half. But then, they were never going to come out at half time not playing better as it was hard to see how they could play worse. In a way, half time came at the wrong time for us as we had just found more gears to step into.

You can say all these teams are "dreadful" - it doesn't stop them knowing how to get the best out of themselves as teams, and so far they have. We haven't quite yet, Birmingham was the best sign yet IMHO.

People just need to calm down and remember it's a season, and Norwich are historically slow starters but strong finishers.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

15 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Looking at those two goals, I dont see why he couldnt have scored those goals in the championship

It weren't long after he arrived that it was rumoured he was having trouble settling.

I think its one where he needs to go away and regain confidence, then potentially have another go at Norwich.

Dowell, Cantwell and Hernandez are all out of contract at the end of the season, along with Pukki, so there will be room here for him to come and nail a place, depending on which of those agree contracts to stay.

I'm not shy to criticise the club, but in this case I think the loan is probably for the best.