FA and club overreach into the matchday experience

[The Real Buh 3,432]

I put a post on the “no U2’s” thread and I thought I’d break it out into a separate thread because I think it’s important for us all as fans

Look, I definitely wouldn’t take a kid that young to the football but isn’t this indicative of the horrendous environment that pervades going to the football at the moment? A heavy cloud slowly descending on stadiums across the land.

Treated as a potential violent criminal, racist, pyromaniac plague rat who’s a massive danger to the population. Who are going to an activity that is so horrendous it can only take place under an insane bureaucracy which every fan has to tiptoe through. You can be arrested or socially stigmatised for saying the wrong thing or even BEING PERCIEVED to have said the wrong thing. Encouraged by the clubs about 20 times a game to grass up your fellow fans by texting a number. All while plastics and Far East illegal betting rings can watch at home on TV, gawk and poke fun at us for going out in the cold to watch our team. All while they wear a groove in their sofa and fill the internet with hatred.

Its my opinion that something needs to be done immediately about FA and club overreach into the fans match day experience. We are about half a season away from Norwich and other clubs sending out letters to their fans saying “do as we say or go and support another club”

I can definitely feel a tipping point or reckoning coming. Us “Legacy Fans” as we have been described are literally just going to the football. The stigmatism we are starting to face is illogical and shouldn’t be tolerated.

So, here’s the thing. I’m sure this will be extrapolated into “you support people being racist at games” “you shouldn’t be able to do what you like” which is an expected response from a certain sub-set. I’d just like to say of course I don’t support racism or homophobia or anything like that. If the players want to take the knee or not I don’t have an issue with it at all. Rainbow laces, poppy silences, it’s all good.

Maybe my perception of all this is heightened because we have some horrendous people running the club right now. From the football side and the sort of middle management, HR “fake job” side of things

There has been significant “mission creep” from the legitimate protests around the George Floyd incident (which, and it’s sad I have to say this because of I don’t I’ll be targeted for it, was obvious a heinous crime) by the powers that be at our club, the FA and other clubs around the country. Fans and supporters are treated with very little respect and are being treated as customers instead.

The banned from Twitter model is “you got banned but it’s their company if you don’t like it, leave and start your own company” mantra is being adopted by the clubs but it’s not that simple with a football club. Yes, they are companies effectively but you don’t have an affinity with ASDA or WHSmith. People have been given the choice of their families or the club and CHOSEN the club! The club belongs to them in legal documentation and companies house but the fans own what the club is and I think we are probably going to have to re-take it from them.

Id just like to enjoy my football in 2022, not 1984.

[Nuff Said 5,131]

Hang on, you want to be taken seriously now? 🤔

 

 

TBF, this is a good question although I think it could be extended beyond football with many parallels elsewhere. While I understand your reaction to being monitored and the “grass up your neighbour” aspects, it could be argued that all the club are saying is “don’t be a d1ck”. If you are a d1ck, expect to be called out for it. You still have the right to be a d1ck in your own home but not in a public place that the club believe should be welcoming to all.

 

Ironically, my name is D1ck.

[The Real Buh 3,432]

13 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Hang on, you want to be taken seriously now? 🤔

 

 

TBF, this is a good question although I think it could be extended beyond football with many parallels elsewhere. While I understand your reaction to being monitored and the “grass up your neighbour” aspects, it could be argued that all the club are saying is “don’t be a d1ck”. If you are a d1ck, expect to be called out for it. You still have the right to be a d1ck in your own home but not in a public place that the club believe should be welcoming to all.

 

Ironically, my name is D1ck.

The situation you describe seems to be a tale as old as time at this point.

People treated with the upmost suspicion as if they could explode in racist rage at any moment and will need to be carted away.

I know other fans will be feeling what I’m feeling. Like a frog slowly boiling in water as the club turns the temperature up slowly.

Given the clubs pretty exemplary fanbase behaviour record (routinely finishing bottom or very near the bottom in fan arrests every year) does this justify the level of response we are subjected to? When there were a few extra pitch encroachments last year there were calls to being back the fences.

At this point I’m just curious to see what the straw to break the camels back will be. My message to the club specifically is be very careful. 

[A Load of Squit 5,161]

4 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

My message to the club specifically is be very careful. 

Have you sent this message to the club?

[The Real Buh 3,432]

Just now, A Load of Squit said:

Have you sent this message to the club?

I’m afraid of getting banned 😂😂

which kind of illuminates the point quite well

I understand the matchday experience evolves but some of the policies and the way the club are going about them really feel weirdly intrusive and obstructive. 
 

It seems like some at the club are working hard to build a true community, a true hub of kind collaboration. A jewel on the crown of the region, like the community sports people and whatnot, and some are dedicated to turning the club into a strictly regimented and controlled nightmarish hell where we all goose-step into the ground and look around at one another waiting for a grumble so we can send a text to the uppers and receive our pat on the head.

[Drazen Muzinic 1,445]

1 hour ago, The Real Buh said:

...I thought I’d break it out into a separate thread...

Cambridge...is that you...?🤔

[A Load of Squit 5,161]

9 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

I’m afraid of getting banned 😂😂

which kind of illuminates the point quite well

I understand the matchday experience evolves but some of the policies and the way the club are going about them really feel weirdly intrusive and obstructive. 
 

It seems like some at the club are working hard to build a true community, a true hub of kind collaboration. A jewel on the crown of the region, like the community sports people and whatnot, and some are dedicated to turning the club into a strictly regimented and controlled nightmarish hell where we all goose-step into the ground and look around at one another waiting for a grumble so we can send a text to the uppers and receive our pat on the head.

A simple "No, I'm just a keyboard warrior" would've sufficed.

[stratton canary 134]

Will be interested to see how the stewards speak to people that are standing as where I supposedly sit I can't as everyone in front of me are standing so I have to stand to watch the game,  myself and friends around me were talking about this issue on Saturday, so I'll be looking forward to receiving a letter from the club, will make sure I have pictures to back up my case, & no I'm not asking those in front of me to sit down either!   Just a thought. 

[Capt. Pants 4,227]

It's just the club playing lip service to the woke cultures and the like. I wouldn't read anything into it. Fans were standing at the Wigan game and calling the ref every name under the sun.

This doesn't and shouldn't excuse anti social behaviour and the club appears to be getting the balance right, or at least says it is.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Strikes me as a way of enabling fans to report rather than wonder what they can do. I'm not sure how this could be seen as a bad thing.

[The Real Buh 3,432]

28 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

A simple "No, I'm just a keyboard warrior" would've sufficed.

Good to see what side of the fence you are one

[Badger 2,405]

I'm not really sure what the issue is? If you are referring to standing, the stewards were are more persistent in challenging it 4 or 5 years ago. 

Being treated as "a potential violent criminal, racist, pyromaniac plague rat who’s a massive danger to the population" was definitely more prevalent in the 1980s - security is much more relaxed at most games now.

Bit confused tbh.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

10 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Good to see what side of the fence you are one

Not sure that this constitutes a position rather than just suggesting you speak to the club? Not every issue is a black and white ‘you’re this’ or ‘you’re that’ just because you want to create a division. Maybe the suggestion of having a dialogue with the club about your concerns, maybe through the OSP, is actually a good way to get some reassurances? 

I think things like this and some of your posts are actually a big part of the problem with your insistence that people HAVE to choose a side without believing in compromise? 

In honesty, a lot of your posts do make me chuckle as I read them as tongue in cheek a lot if the time and I do like your sense of humour.  Does liking many of your posts but disliking the ones calling for arms make me a fence sitter? 😉

Edited August 11, 2022 by SwearyCanary

[Mello Yello 2,289]

We've gotta encourage fan-folk to be a sneaky sneak sneak, or be a covert Copper's Nark, to "Shop a Fan!".....and if proven, you'll receive a complimentary voucher that entitles you to a Burger and Fries plus soft drink in Yellow's (only valid during quiet periods).....Including being awarded a sticker for your lapel that says....."I shopped a real Wrong'un at Community Club Carra!"......

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 405]

9 minutes ago, Badger said:

I'm not really sure what the issue is? If you are referring to standing, the stewards were are more persistent in challenging it 4 or 5 years ago. 

Being treated as "a potential violent criminal, racist, pyromaniac plague rat who’s a massive danger to the population" was definitely more prevalent in the 1980s - security is much more relaxed at most games now.

Bit confused tbh.

I remember an away trip to Brighton in the 80's where anybody wearing Doc Marten boots(myself included) was made to remove them and leave them outside the gate to be collected on the way out.

[Grando 260]

"These days you get arrested and thrown in jail if you say you're English, don't you?"

[Lord Horn (again) 131]

10 minutes ago, Grando said:

"These days you get arrested and thrown in jail if you say you're English, don't you?"

Glad I don't live in your world!

[Pyro Pete 1,893]

1 minute ago, Lord Horn (again) said:

Glad I don't live in your world!

It's a Stewart Lee quote.

[Mello Yello 2,289]

Next home game I'm gonna film the Barclay stand lower with my smart phone camera selected on record and on wide-angle lens for when the opposition goalkeeper takes a goal-kick.....So when the home crowd go in unison "YOU'RE SH*T AAAAAHHH!".....

Jackpot! Submit the evidence of the vociferous offending oafs to the relevant club authority and it's 'BINGO!' A Burger and fries and a softie and a "I shopped a real Wrong'un at Community Club Carra!" lapel sticker is surely guaranteed?.....

Because I may have also shopped a multitude of Wrong'uns, do you think 'Yellows' may also throw in half a dozen fried onion rings and an ice-cream as well?..... 

 

[The Real Buh 3,432]

42 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Strikes me as a way of enabling fans to report rather than wonder what they can do. I'm not sure how this could be seen as a bad thing.

Creep, creep, creep

”they are just facial recognition camera, what’s the problem?”

[The Real Buh 3,432]

I want the club to be more inclusive, a beacon of local-…ness of Norfolk.

why not engage with the fans. Local art shows, allow them to use the space in and around Carrow Road? Why not open up the resources have a whole load of Norwich City Sports team? Why did it take so long for them to acknowledge the ladies team AT ALL and now we are decades behind other clubs as a result?

NCFC are treated like a mass corporate entity and I know they need to make money but Norwich City just seems so cold nowadays

and when the “go and support someone else” letters start dropping on peoples mats a whole load of people will say “no, we are going to take the club back from you”

it’s definitely changed post-pandemic, and anything that’s said against the general atmosphere at the club is instantly shot down as “you are a racist and you don’t support taking the knee” or some śhît. The club hides behind this basic mentality.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

10 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Creep, creep, creep

”they are just facial recognition camera, what’s the problem?”

I think you're seeing a slippery slope that may or indeed may not be there. That said, looking at your longer post directly afterwards, I actually agree with most of it (and really like the second para), so what this tells me is whilst we seem to want similar things, we may have differing ideas re. the execution.

Let's put it this way, you've justifiably said "why not engage with the fans?"

My first thought here is that this is a way of establishing a channel for fans to engage with the club under a specific set of circumstances. How it is executed will tell us more, IMO, rather than it just being set up in the first place.

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, Inch High aka Inchy.. said:

I remember an away trip to Brighton in the 80's where anybody wearing Doc Marten boots(myself included) was made to remove them and leave them outside the gate to be collected on the way out.

I was with a very middle class group of friends (teacher, accountant and trainee solicitor) in the 1980s on the way back from an away game enjoying a quiet pint, when we were asked to leave because the landlord overheard us talking about "the match."

The landlord explained that "football supporters were not allowed in his pub!" We didn't even have scarves on! Buh can't have been to many matches back then to think that football supporters are treated worse nowadays!

[The Real Buh 3,432]

37 minutes ago, Badger said:

I was with a very middle class group of friends (teacher, accountant and trainee solicitor) in the 1980s on the way back from an away game enjoying a quiet pint, when we were asked to leave because the landlord overheard us talking about "the match."

The landlord explained that "football supporters were not allowed in his pub!" We didn't even have scarves on! Buh can't have been to many matches back then to think that football supporters are treated worse nowadays!

I never said it was worse or better back then

you sound like the people saying “you think it’s hot now! In 1976 it was so hot that blah blah blah yakety shmakety”

it’s different, but it’s still oppressive 

[essex canary 496]

2 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

I want the club to be more inclusive, a beacon of local-…ness of Norfolk.

why not engage with the fans. Local art shows, allow them to use the space in and around Carrow Road? Why not open up the resources have a whole load of Norwich City Sports team? Why did it take so long for them to acknowledge the ladies team AT ALL and now we are decades behind other clubs as a result?

NCFC are treated like a mass corporate entity and I know they need to make money but Norwich City just seems so cold nowadays

and when the “go and support someone else” letters start dropping on peoples mats a whole load of people will say “no, we are going to take the club back from you”

it’s definitely changed post-pandemic, and anything that’s said against the general atmosphere at the club is instantly shot down as “you are a racist and you don’t support taking the knee” or some śhît. The club hides behind this basic mentality.

My question of the Club is why isn't fan engagement based on regular local roadshows as was the case in Delia and Michael's early tenure? 

The then Vice Chairman was at the helm.

[Badger 2,405]

39 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

I never said it was worse or better back then

you sound like the people saying “you think it’s hot now! In 1976 it was so hot that blah blah blah yakety shmakety”

it’s different, but it’s still oppressive 

I must have misunderstood you - I thought you felt that things were getting worse and that we are at "a tipping point." 

With regards to your comment about the weather and climate, I think exactly the opposite to what you suggested: this summer is hotter and has been for longer than in 1976.

The climate is worse than in the 1970s but the treatment of football supporters is better: I am more worried about a climate tipping point one for the treatment of football supporters.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

5 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

 

I put a post on the “no U2’s” thread and I thought I’d break it out into a separate thread because I think it’s important for us all as fans

Look, I definitely wouldn’t take a kid that young to the football but isn’t this indicative of the horrendous environment that pervades going to the football at the moment? A heavy cloud slowly descending on stadiums across the land.

Treated as a potential violent criminal, racist, pyromaniac plague rat who’s a massive danger to the population. Who are going to an activity that is so horrendous it can only take place under an insane bureaucracy which every fan has to tiptoe through. You can be arrested or socially stigmatised for saying the wrong thing or even BEING PERCIEVED to have said the wrong thing. Encouraged by the clubs about 20 times a game to grass up your fellow fans by texting a number. All while plastics and Far East illegal betting rings can watch at home on TV, gawk and poke fun at us for going out in the cold to watch our team. All while they wear a groove in their sofa and fill the internet with hatred.

Its my opinion that something needs to be done immediately about FA and club overreach into the fans match day experience. We are about half a season away from Norwich and other clubs sending out letters to their fans saying “do as we say or go and support another club”

I can definitely feel a tipping point or reckoning coming. Us “Legacy Fans” as we have been described are literally just going to the football. The stigmatism we are starting to face is illogical and shouldn’t be tolerated.

So, here’s the thing. I’m sure this will be extrapolated into “you support people being racist at games” “you shouldn’t be able to do what you like” which is an expected response from a certain sub-set. I’d just like to say of course I don’t support racism or homophobia or anything like that. If the players want to take the knee or not I don’t have an issue with it at all. Rainbow laces, poppy silences, it’s all good.

Maybe my perception of all this is heightened because we have some horrendous people running the club right now. From the football side and the sort of middle management, HR “fake job” side of things

There has been significant “mission creep” from the legitimate protests around the George Floyd incident (which, and it’s sad I have to say this because of I don’t I’ll be targeted for it, was obvious a heinous crime) by the powers that be at our club, the FA and other clubs around the country. Fans and supporters are treated with very little respect and are being treated as customers instead.

The banned from Twitter model is “you got banned but it’s their company if you don’t like it, leave and start your own company” mantra is being adopted by the clubs but it’s not that simple with a football club. Yes, they are companies effectively but you don’t have an affinity with ASDA or WHSmith. People have been given the choice of their families or the club and CHOSEN the club! The club belongs to them in legal documentation and companies house but the fans own what the club is and I think we are probably going to have to re-take it from them.

Id just like to enjoy my football in 2022, not 1984.

I tend to agree. I've seen three or four posts on social media since tuesday saying that people were surprised that fans weren't chucked out or that the stweards didn't do anything about someone swearing or having a go at he referee, something that has happened at football since time immemorial. This is a result of that new "sanctions list" posted by the club. 

There is also now a bit of a culture at Carrow Road of ostracising those who dare to be a little critical through the press or on phone ins.

Its a becoming a bit of a nanny state.

I'm not advocating bad behaviour at football but by the same token really don;t want it to become some sort of souless, sanitised experience where we all just sit applauding politely. 

[yellowrider120 762]

5 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I tend to agree. I've seen three or four posts on social media since tuesday saying that people were surprised that fans weren't chucked out or that the stweards didn't do anything about someone swearing or having a go at he referee, something that has happened at football since time immemorial. This is a result of that new "sanctions list" posted by the club. 

There is also now a bit of a culture at Carrow Road of ostracising those who dare to be a little critical through the press or on phone ins.

Its a becoming a bit of a nanny state.

I'm not advocating bad behaviour at football but by the same token really don;t want it to become some sort of souless, sanitised experience where we all just sit applauding politely. 

Totally agree. I go to the football not simply to analyse the technical merits (or otherwise!) of the players and teams but to (hopefully) see / hear / partake in a good 'atmosphere'. That is one reason why going to away matches is often a much more enjoyable 'experience' (setting aside the often 'painful' nature of the result of course) than trundling down to FCR which often seems more like  a 'chore'. I'll be at Hull and Sunderland. The former is likely to be diluted somewhat due to this infernal heatwave but the latter will (hopefully) be played in more sensible temperatures and the 40,000 + crowd will make for a 'real' atmosphere. Of course I want to see us win and play well but I'd prefer a thrilling 3-2 defeat with loads of incidents rather than a boring, soulless 1-0 win played in front ofe  the kind of audience you have rightly described. That's not my idea of 'football'. Trouble is football is heading this way but is merely symptomatic of the nanny state we increasingly are subject to in other aspects of life. 

[Lord Horn (again) 131]

4 hours ago, Pyro Pete said:

It's a Stewart Lee quote.

He's OK but he's no James Acaster!

[The Real Buh 3,432]

7 hours ago, Badger said:

I must have misunderstood you - I thought you felt that things were getting worse and that we are at "a tipping point." 

With regards to your comment about the weather and climate, I think exactly the opposite to what you suggested: this summer is hotter and has been for longer than in 1976.

The climate is worse than in the 1970s but the treatment of football supporters is better: I am more worried about a climate tipping point one for the treatment of football supporters.

Cool story bro