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horsefly

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https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/grant-shapps-vows-to-create-new-death-by-dangerous-cycling-law/ar-AA10m470

I have no problem at all with reckless cyclists being held to account for any injuries (including death) that they cause by illegal behaviour. However, shouldn't  we also have a law that equally punishes reckless pedestrian behaviour? In a lifetime of cycling I have never run into a pedestrian on a footpath, I have, however, been knocked off my bike twice by pedestrians walking into the road without looking.

Just for balance, the Daily Mail carried this article yesterday https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/speeding-drug-driver-25-who-killed-a-newly-married-cyclist-is-jailed-for-just-21-months/ar-AA10lP27?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5b1d154e572f412b9c98456fb6a06aad showing that drivers still get away with paltry sentences when injuring and killing cyclists. Given the number of people injured and killed by reckless cyclists compared to the number of cyclists injured and killed by reckless drivers, perhaps Shapps might be better advised on where his priorities should lie. I wouldn't want him to be accused of trying to distract from his current failures by gaslighting the current popularity for demonising cyclists.

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I used to be ambivalent to cyclists, treating them as an encumbrance to my progress as a motorist, I will qualify this by saying I never put them in danger, but I certainly displayed impatience and disdain. Now however, I am completely the reverse, having been a cyclist (intermittently) most of my life and having attended a cyclist awareness course, as part of my job, this changed my outlook.. There will always be the rare occasion when you encounter a reckless, foolish or selfish cyclist, but that doesn't mean you should treat them any differently.

Treat cyclists on the road as you would want to be treated if you were riding a bike.

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The lack of cycling infrastructure is a major problem in the UK.

Which result in a raw deal for everyone. It makes it harder for drivers who often get caught behind them and feel pressure to overtake (sometimes because they worry that it disconcerting for the cyclist themselves) it's more dangerous for cyclists who are on roads that are badly designed for cycling and more dangerous for pedestrians as many people on bikes are scared to ride on certain sections of road. 

I'm sympathetic to councils, who often have a difficult balancing act between the three, especially with bus lanes added in and have to work around the narrow street patterns of British towns and cities. However it's a major weakness of most British towns.

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1 hour ago, Daz Sparks said:

I used to be ambivalent to cyclists, treating them as an encumbrance to my progress as a motorist, I will qualify this by saying I never put them in danger, but I certainly displayed impatience and disdain. Now however, I am completely the reverse, having been a cyclist (intermittently) most of my life and having attended a cyclist awareness course, as part of my job, this changed my outlook.. There will always be the rare occasion when you encounter a reckless, foolish or selfish cyclist, but that doesn't mean you should treat them any differently.

Treat cyclists on the road as you would want to be treated if you were riding a bike.

That goes for horses as well. The proporition of motoring time lost to slowing down and being careful is miniscule. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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The use of paths and roads has certainly changed over the years. As the roads become busier, the use of the paths and also the roads becomes greater through leisure activities.

Mrs KG and I were road runners for many years. Mrs KG has a horse and I cycle. And I walk the dog every day at least once.

It is more important than ever that courtesy prevails and respect for others is paramount.

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Cylcing on the pavement is ever increasing and as such seen as an acceptable thing to do, but not by me as I navigate a city I come across many a justeat delivery driver whizzing past me from various directions. I wonder if it's not already a thing whether biycle insurance will become a thing.

Jay walking being made a crime would simply create more fines from the police from biycle dashcams

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On 06/08/2022 at 06:33, horsefly said:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/grant-shapps-vows-to-create-new-death-by-dangerous-cycling-law/ar-AA10m470

I have no problem at all with reckless cyclists being held to account for any injuries (including death) that they cause by illegal behaviour. However, shouldn't  we also have a law that equally punishes reckless pedestrian behaviour? In a lifetime of cycling I have never run into a pedestrian on a footpath, I have, however, been knocked off my bike twice by pedestrians walking into the road without looking.

Just for balance, the Daily Mail carried this article yesterday https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/speeding-drug-driver-25-who-killed-a-newly-married-cyclist-is-jailed-for-just-21-months/ar-AA10lP27?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=5b1d154e572f412b9c98456fb6a06aad showing that drivers still get away with paltry sentences when injuring and killing cyclists. Given the number of people injured and killed by reckless cyclists compared to the number of cyclists injured and killed by reckless drivers, perhaps Shapps might be better advised on where his priorities should lie. I wouldn't want him to be accused of trying to distract from his current failures by gaslighting the current popularity for demonising cyclists.

100%

I drive, ridden a motorcycle and currently cycle 3 days a week (I can walk too!). Part of my route includes the inner ring road where I use a short section of path rather than have to negotiate 3 lanes of traffic including HGVs doing between 30/60mph, changing lanes and generally being unpredictable, to turn right. I regularly have people mutter under their breath at me 'should be on the road', I can only hear them as I've stopped to allow them to pass before I continue. As you say, there has been a demonisation of cyclists that is in the most part totally unjustified. Actually the government sanctioned the use of paths for cyclists if the road was unsafe https://road.cc/content/news/108119-transport-minister-responsible-cyclists-can-ride-pavement

'Why dont they use the cycle paths' - I cycle through Mousehold which has a cycle path, but only for around 200m, it's in a fairly flat 20mph section and usually has people walking dogs on it, with headphones on and totally unaware of their surroundings. Either side of the cycle path are the two steep inclines where it would actually be useful to get off the road, but of course, there is nothing and cars are frustratedly following someone at 5mph. 

Driving a car is necessary for some journeys, but electric bikes/scooters are the most sensible and accessible transport for the future and the infrastructure is not there to support it as an option. They have had Riverside Road closed for the best part of a year and done nothing to make it safer for cyclists or scooters, in fact whatever they have attempted at the station is a crash waiting to happen.

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For reference I used to cycle to school and then University, to work in several cities in the UK in all weathers but now in my later years  drive (or often walk) into Norwich (2.5 miles each way).

Despite all the so called cycling improvements in Norwich - I note that my cycle to school across the suburbs would still be the same now as 45 to 50 years ago on the same roads with the same traffic and no cycle paths. Nearly all what the city/county council have done is frankly irrelevant for most people.

All that said, the problem today as I see it from largely a pedestrian viewpoint, is that many cyclists feel they are above the general law of the land -  in my day one didn't cycle on the pavements (that was for small children only) and one certainly didn't expect pedestrians to get (or jump) out of the way! As a pedestrian I know where cars are and aren't - yes on the road - but can now be buzzed by a cycle or scooter anywhere at anytime it seems.

What is needed is some enforcement of the rule of the road - get the message across to cyclists too that pedestrians always have the highest priority and should be no more endangered by a cyclist as cars endanger cyclists. It is the absence of good manners and the lack of enforcement that has allowed too many cyclists to think little in the highway code applies to them.

Edited by Yellow Fever

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