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45 minutes ago, kirku said:

Rowe, Springett and possibly Gibbs are the only young players who play in a similar position to Ramsey and are close to the first team squad.

None of those three are likely to be regular starters.

If one or two of them go out on loan to get regular first team football, which they need, and Ramsey covers a spot on the bench, what's the problem?

Alternatively, if he turns out to be as good as the Villa fans are saying, and he plays a pivotal role in a successful season, what's the problem there?

Do you remember Billy Gilmour?

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8 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Likely a fairly cheap signing where if he's no good we will barely see him, if he is good he will feature regularly and we will all be happy? I see no point us claiming our young players are better or more ready when we haven't seen them play to compare. 

Seems highly rated at Villa, I've never seen him play so can't pass comment. I see it as a fairly risk free signing thats based purely on Smiths knowledge of the player - will be an opportunity to genuinely assess his judgment.

The man speaks sense. After the teeth gnashing from last season’s transfer window this is a great point you make. It’s risk free really. I always find it amusing how some believe our youth are world beaters when in truth we have no clue, given we’re not in daily training sessions, as to their genuine talent. 

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Posted (edited)
On 05/08/2022 at 22:43, ged in the onion bag said:

The con is also that we failed yet again to address the CDM position properly with players we don’t have to send back.   

The con is that we don’t have the finances to fill the void left after they go back.

The con is we don’t develop our younger players or bring in a new player to develop.

The con is we are less obliged to spend our budget on (in that case) a CDM. 

The con is we developed a player for another club who would then improve an opponent.     

The con is we aren’t good enough to go up and can’t afford to fill the void.   
 

 

You must be absolutely over the moon then with the loan to buy acquisition of Hayden.

The pro is we have addressed the CDM position and we don't have to send him back.

The pro is we will have the finances to keep him at the club.

The pro is we have brought in a player proven in the PL.

The pro is he increases the chances of the club going up, and leaves no void if we do.

Splendid piece of business Mr Webber.

Edited by horsefly
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51 minutes ago, kirku said:

Rowe, Springett and possibly Gibbs are the only young players who play in a similar position to Ramsey and are close to the first team squad.

None of those three are likely to be regular starters.

If one or two of them go out on loan to get regular first team football, which they need, and Ramsey covers a spot on the bench, what's the problem?

Alternatively, if he turns out to be as good as the Villa fans are saying, and he plays a pivotal role in a successful season, what's the problem there?

That far too complicated for Buh to comprehend.He is a simple mechanism. We win , happy days. We lose or draw or the manager drinks a cup of tea and he loses his shoite like a two year old. 

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8 minutes ago, Paint Me Yellow said:

Do you remember Billy Gilmour?

Do you remember Ollie Skipp ? 

 

Two can play that silly game 

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5 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Do you remember Ollie Skipp ? 

 

Two can play that silly game 

Do you remember we have a category 1 academy?

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1 minute ago, wcorkcanary said:

Do you remember Ollie Skipp ? 

 

Two can play that silly game 

Indeed Corky! Not sure why posters play that silly game, but no doubt one of them will be along soon to remind us of that complete dud of a loan signing, Harry Kane. Whatever happened to him? I can only assume he's chugging away in the Isthmian league still trying to hit a barn door.

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When it comes to untested youngsters on loan they tend to be Marcus Edwards, Patrick Roberts and Billy Gilmours - Skipp was a huge exception.

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6 minutes ago, Paint Me Yellow said:

Do you remember we have a category 1 academy?

Remember when a load of alleged Norwich fans abandoned their good young academy players at the slightest whiff of some lad from the midlands?

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It's hard to judge this one. All we can see is that his level last season was on the fringes of being a starter - but often on bench - at League 1 level. Has Smith and the scouting team seen that he has progressed hugely in the last few months? Well, let's hope so, but he doesn't look like a first teamer yet to me.

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11 minutes ago, Paint Me Yellow said:

Do you remember we have a category 1 academy?

This point has already been explained. 

Very well, in fact , above , by @kirku

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17 minutes ago, Paint Me Yellow said:

Do you remember we have a category 1 academy?

As we did when we signed Skipp. A cat 1 academy doesn't necessarily mean you ignore the loan market - other cat 1 clubs loan players too.

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I'm a bit bewildered at this one especially as he seems to be a number 10. And the Villa-supporting pal has said he's very highly rated within Villa. 

I suspect he'll get a lot of cameos with the new five-subs rule so will be used to play fairly often and also keep the likes of Cantwell/Dowell fresher as the season is congested. In short, a rotation option.

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34 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

The man speaks sense. After the teeth gnashing from last season’s transfer window this is a great point you make. It’s risk free really. I always find it amusing how some believe our youth are world beaters when in truth we have no clue, given we’re not in daily training sessions, as to their genuine talent. 

Yep, and if he turns out to be a crap signing he turns out to be a crap signing. It won't be because he's from Villas academy, or because he's 19. It'll be because we made the wrong decision to sign him. The ability for some to predetermine how wrong a signing is despite their posting history demonstrating how often they get things wrong is baffling.

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The amount on here that support the management but don’t have the courage to come out and say it

weeeeeeak 🤣

if we win lose or draw today I’ll still think Dean Smith and his team are f@&£ing useless

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9 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

This point has already been explained. 

Very well, in fact , above , by @kirku

See KeiranShakari's response above.

"Two can play that silly game"

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1 hour ago, The Real Buh said:

Don’t buy it

our players are better and should be given the chance

Better than Ramsey or better than our established first team players?

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Just now, kirku said:

Better than Ramsey or better than our established first team players?

Definitely better than Ramsey, crucially OUR PLAYERS and worthy of a chance. Not one of Deanos mates because he’s on his last legs.

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14 hours ago, Mark22 said:

Villa here.  A player with alot of ability at  youth level. Outscored and out assisted Carney Chukwuemeka in the same youth team 2 seasons ago. Not as physically big as Jacob but a  fiery character and strong for his size  about 5ft 9. They come from boxing stock with their old man being a decent pro boxer who fought Kosta Zyu and Ricky Hatton so can handle themselves. . No guarantees but i think he will do well for a more attacking team than Cheltenham as he was playing more centre mid there. He is a 10 really. Not silky but very intelligent and a real goal threat in the right team. Was always the higher rated of him and his brother. 

Played under Liam Bramley in our youth team as well so they know exactly what he will bring.

Be handy to have in the team when it’s handbags at dawn

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7 minutes ago, kirku said:

Better than Ramsey or better than our established first team players?

Don't feed the gimp, just leave him to his gentle rocking in the corner. 

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4 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Definitely better than Ramsey, crucially OUR PLAYERS and worthy of a chance. Not one of Deanos mates because he’s on his last legs.

We have no idea whether they are better than Ramsey or not.

But, as I explained earlier, it's irrelevant as none of them are likely to be playing regularly in our first team

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12 minutes ago, Paint Me Yellow said:

See KeiranShakari's response above.

"Two can play that silly game"

And what detrimental effect did the loans of Edwards and Roberts have?

 

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Just now, kirku said:

We have no idea whether they are better than Ramsey or not.

But, as I explained earlier, it's irrelevant as none of them are likely to be playing regularly in our first team

Then why bother getting some lad in from Villa? Why?

its a desperation move from our manager who. Btw, is Fuçkèd

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Just looking at the Cheltenham forum and they didn't seem to rate him at all

eg "The problem with Ramsay is that he cannot beat a man or pick at pass at this level so he often just loses the ball. Not to mention he cannot win many tackles. You can have all the movement in the world but when you cannot do the basics it's worthless.

I'd be amazed if he's not back at this level on loan next season after bulking up a bit in the summer. We've got a lot of transfers right in recent years but the two recent ones from Villa have been well below par."

He sounds perfect for our midfield to be fair

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1 minute ago, Chichcan said:

Just looking at the Cheltenham forum and they didn't seem to rate him at all

eg "The problem with Ramsay is that he cannot beat a man or pick at pass at this level so he often just loses the ball. Not to mention he cannot win many tackles. You can have all the movement in the world but when you cannot do the basics it's worthless.

I'd be amazed if he's not back at this level on loan next season after bulking up a bit in the summer. We've got a lot of transfers right in recent years but the two recent ones from Villa have been well below par."

He sounds perfect for our midfield to be fair

WHY

DID

WE

LOAN

HIM

???

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57 minutes ago, Paint Me Yellow said:

Do you remember Billy Gilmour?

And what relevance does that have to this deal?

Gilmour was brought in to much fanfare, in the PL, as a starter. It was an utter disaster for all concerned, to the extent that he hasn't even been given a squad number by Chelsea.

Gilmour was a very risky loan and our recruitment team were very culpable. It's simply not possible for Ramsey to have such a negative impact on our season.

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